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A couple of good discussions have been going on about repentance and forgiveness. Doesn’t God require repentance before forgiveness, so shouldn’t we also require the same? Some Christians don’t agree with me, but I’m going with “no” here. We are still required to forgive people, even when they aren’t sorry.
First of all Romans 5:8 says, But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.” So God did not wait for us to repent before paving the path to forgiveness for us. While we were yet sinners. True, we need to repent and ask for His forgiveness in order to receive Salvation, but God did not wait for us to do that before paying our own ransom.
Second of all, the woman with the perfume in Luke 7:47, “Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.” Carrying around unforgiveness is like lugging around a bag of rocks. It is like carrying a list of offenses around with you. It colors our experiences with other people and it prevents us from loving fully. It can grow into bitterness. Forgiving others is a gift we give ourselves, it frees us from being bound to them. Often God’s forgiveness of us is directly tied to how much forgiveness we ourselves are able to show others. Grace has a very reflective nature to it.
Forgiving is not the same thing as forgetting and setting yourself up again. We don’t necessarily forgive an addict and then immediately hand him our car keys and credit cards. Psalms 103:12 says, “As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.” God is Holy and perfect, He may well forget and forgive, remove our transgressions from the East to the West. We however, are flawed and imperfect people and I suspect He doesn’t require us to abandon all common sense and “forget,” at least not immediately.
Nor are communities, churches, the legal system, collective groups, required to forgive and forget. I am speaking of individuals here. Forgiveness, redemption, grace does not belong to us, it is not our job to forgive others so they may obtain grace or right standing in God’s eyes. Sometimes we get that confused, we act as if other people cannot be reconciled to God until they have atoned for their sins to us. That can be a bitter pill to swallow, but revenge is not ours to handle and justice is not ours to dish out, at least not in a spiritual sense. God is the judge, not us. We ourselves are simply called to reflect the grace Christ has shown to us, and to let Him deal with those who harm us.
Matthew 6:14 says , “For if you forgive men their trespasses, your Heavenly Father will also forgive you.” Or Colossians 3:13 which says, “Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.”
A really powerful prayer when you are dealing with unforgiveness is, “Lord please show them the same grace and mercy you have shown me.” As Christ on the cross said, “Father forgive them for they know not what they do.”
Something that has helped me when I have craved justice, ached for repentance, is to remind myself who people actually owe repentance to. It is actually not owed to me, it is owed to my Father whom I belong to. When you harm me, you offend Him and then I have to try to intercede for you.
I have to double down here on this idea, because after nearly half a century of some pretty major offenses, I can only recall 3 times anyone has ever repented. If I had subscribed to the concept of, “no forgiveness without repentance,” I’d be bitter, weighed down and made heavy by unforgiveness, and feeling about 30 years older.
So why do we forgive? So we can walk in the freedom of that “unbearable lightness of being,” and recieve all that Jesus Christ has for us.
See, there's this thing called biology... 
Like C.S. Lewis said “Everyone thinks forgiveness is a lovely idea until he has something to forgive.” It’s hard business. Just look at the cross.
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Perfect. 🙂
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For me, there is a general forgiveness that is not dependent on the attitude or feelings of the offender. Forgive them, for they know not what they do. It is freeing to the offended. If the offender recognizes their offense, is truly sorry and repents, then the door is opened for a restoration of a right relationship. Without that repentance it is difficult, if not impossible, for the relationship to be restored to what it once was, or could be.
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Rather than forgiving generally, we are to be ready to forgive. Consider the concept that releasing the other’s sin to God to handle is not forgiving. Release allows the offended to be freed of the sin, and allows them to forgive from the heart if the sinner should repent to them.
As to restoration of relationship, I believe that is a significant part of God’s desire for mankind. God wishes for all of mankind to be restored to relate to Him as in the Garden of Eden, and for all of mankind to relate to one another in godly love.
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Isn’t forgiveness one of the most difficult things we struggle with. When we’re hurt, it’s so hard to forgive, but God is so cool. He took the sin of every human being, past, present and future and placed it on the back of His only Son. Imagine the weight He carried. If Jesus did this for everyone, it shouldn’t be difficult for us to forgive those that sin against us. Great thoughts in your post.
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I suppose that you mean all Christians when you refer to “every human being”. If not, why would anyone end up in hell, as the sacrifice has already been made for their sins? It would have been no problem for God, who knows all, to choose which sins Jesus took with Him to the cross.
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IB, I agree with you 100% on this. This discussion (repentance before forgiveness?) always reminds me of the scene in Les Miserable when Jean Valjean is arrested for stealing silver and brought before the priest from whom he stole. His story of begin given the silver is not only corroborated by the priest, but he is given even more silver. Because of the priest’s grace and forgiveness, Jean Valjean was able to open his heart and repent, thereby transform his life.
This is the way Jesus works in our hearts; he loves and forgives first, opening our hearts to repentance, salvation and transformation.
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Oh,amen to that! Les Miserables, what a perfect analogy. Grace really is unmerited favor, it is granted to us when we are unworthy and it is powerful and transformative.
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“This is the way Jesus works in our hearts; he loves and forgives first, opening our hearts to repentance, salvation and transformation.”
Jesus forgives first? That’s not the way I read the Bible. For example, 1 John 1:9 places forgiveness after confession, which must precede repentance (if you don’t admit you sinned, you are certainly not going to repent).
[1 John 1:9 NASB] 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
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Well,you’re basically saying the same thing she is, “he loves and forgives first, opening our hearts to repentance, salvation and transformation.”
Christ loved us first. “While we were yet sinners,” He died for us. So He loves and forgives us first, which is what leads us to confession, repentance, and salvation. We don’t earn those things on our own merit, by virtue of our own repentance. It’s a process that begins with His arms being open to us.
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I don’t disagree with the concepts, but I strongly disagree with the order, specifically forgiveness before repentance. I don’t believe that is what happens, at least from the human perspective. Perhaps someone may argue that based on some philosophical perspective such as God is eternal and timeless. If so, I have no interest in discussion of this on that perspective.
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Perhaps the language is a problem? So “forgiveness” is not redemption, it is not salvation. An alcoholic for example can be forgiven, but that does not mean they have made amends, engendered trust, or been redeemed. At that point they are simply a forgiven drunk.
The idea that Christ first loved us isn’t really philosophical, it’s biblical. He came first. He’s the good Father, we’re the children.
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IB,
I agree that God loved us first, but I don’t believe God forgives us before we repent. Considering your example of an alcoholic, I think language is a problem.
Here are two definitions of forgive:
1. Stop feeling angry or resentful toward someone for (an offense, flaw, or mistake).
2. Cancel (a debt).
I think communication and discussion would be greatly improved if these two definitions were separated into two different words. Unfortunately, that is not the case, nor do I expect it to happen.
Although it is commonly used today, I do not perceive the first definition to be forgiveness, especially in the case of forgiveness as used in the Bible. I think, but have no source, that the first definition would not have been considered forgiveness in the New Testament. In other words, I think that all forgiveness in the New Testament refers to the second definition.
I perceive God’s forgiveness of our sins to be the cancellation of a debt. The death of Jesus was the sacrifice that covers the debt of our sins. It allows us to be holy in God’s sight.
It is reasonable and possible, but often difficult, for an individual to stop feeling angry or resentful toward (that is, “forgive”) someone who has hurt them. This does not require repentance on the part of the offender. Although this is the first definition of forgiveness, I prefer to consider this as releasing the sin to God. I agree that this “forgiveness” is healthy and allows us to be freed spiritually from the sin.
I do not believe one individual has the ability to cancel the debt to God of another’s sin. That forgiveness is between the sinner and God.
However, I do think there is a debt of sorts to the person who is sinned against. You mentioned amends. Christian discussions of forgiveness seldom include restitution. An attempt to make restitution would be significant in the victim’s perception of the sinner’s repentance. But, more than restitution, I think people want others to recognize the hurt they caused and be repentant, desiring to never repeat their behavior to anyone. I think this repentance and subsequent forgiveness is what is being discussed in Luke 17:3,4. As I said above, I think this is the forgiveness that is found in the New Testament.
If the first definition of forgiveness above is translated as forgiveness in the New Testament, I would be glad to consider examples. I believe the concept is there, but I don’t think it is called forgiveness.
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If you look at all the examples in the Gospels of Jesus healing, he does not require repentance first. It is the healing and acceptance that leads to repentance. Look at Jesus’ words rather than the letters to people of churches who were already saved but slipped back into sin.
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Susan,
For clarity of understanding, by forgiveness, I mean the idea of canceling a debt, not the idea of ceasing to be resentful toward someone. For example, God forgives our sin by canceling the debt, not just ceasing to be angry about it.
Healing (I presume you are referring to physical healing) is not forgiveness.
Nonetheless, let’s consider the healings by Jesus. I understand there are 31 examples recorded. My thoughts:
– The primary requirement seems to be faith, either that of the sick person or a relative or friend.
– In many cases, we have no idea if the healed person ever repented. In fact, we seldom know anything else about them.
– Forgiveness is seldom mentioned in these 31 examples.
Repentance and physical healing are separate actions. Repentance may or may not have been present before healing.
Moving to Jesus’ statements on forgiveness, we find that He often talked about forgiveness without mentioning repentance. As a result, I will suppose you think that means repentance is not needed. It’s an understandable supposition, but it does not prove it. In everyday life, we often omit actions that we assume are already understood to be necessary. For example, taking out the trash requires opening the door. We assume that requirement but don’t state it. It is my firm belief that Jesus reasonably assumed that his listeners understood the requirement of repentance for forgiveness so He did not state it.
I realize that Jesus never says repentance is necessary for forgiveness. However, it is also true that Jesus never says repentance is not necessary for forgiveness. So, let’s consider the totality of the New Testament. Jesus’ statements in Matt. 18:15-17, Luke 17:3,4, and John 20:23 are relevant. In my opinion, they are more in line with conditional repentance than unconditional.
Since you seem to think the Epistles are irrelevant to this discussion because the recipients were already Christians, let’s look at the book of Acts. In Acts 2:38, Peter follows his sermon on the Day of Pentecost with “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”. Repentance (and baptism) are requirements for forgiveness of sin and receiving the Holy Spirit.
It is my opinion that the totality of the New Testament scripture is more consistent with conditional forgiveness (repentance is necessary first) than unconditional forgiveness (repentance is not necessary). However, I do not think either position can be proven directly from a specific scripture.
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Another great post, with a Scripture base. I’m sure we all have people, whether family, trusted friends, ministry partners, co-workers who have betrayed us, lied to us, hurt us deeply in any number of ways. Yet, as I look at things in my life in perspective, I have hurt God, the Creator of the universe so much more, and still the King of kings, and Lord of lords came and willingly died for me.
I need to remember this, and remember it over again, knowing Jesus Christ is my Strength, and He will help me,
Thank you for this valuable, insightful post once again. God’s Blessings. George.
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“When you harm me, you offend Him and then I have to try to intercede for you.”
Such a powerful spiritual truth!
I also think we tend to confuse forgiveness with trust. We’re commanded to love, and to forgive… no where are we commanded to trust. Trust must be earned.
But I think we incorrectly see trust as an extension of loving and forgiving others… which sometimes compels us to hold on to bitterness longer than we should.
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That’s a really good point. I think often we do tend to confuse “forgiveness” with “trust.” We can love the untrustworthy I think, if we learn how to protect ourselves. Sometimes I’m amazed that Jesus Christ broke bread with Judas, knowing full well that he would betray Him, but He did. I sometimes quip, “you can totally trust Judas…..to be Judas.”
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haha.. that’s very good “you can totally trust Judas to be Judas.”
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Forgiveness as found in the Bible is a topic I have studied extensively. As a result, I am one of those Christians who believe that forgiving others first requires their repentance.
It seems that the church today has subscribed to a worldly, psychological theory that you must forgive, with or without repentance, to avoid bitterness, etc. I strongly disagree that forgiveness is necessary to avoid these negative consequences. What is actually necessary is to release their sin to God. Just like making a child say “I’m sorry” does not make them repentant, “forgiving another’s sin” does not mean you have released their sin to God.
Note: Before continuing, one person “forgiving another’s sin” is not providing absolution for the sin. Only God can do that.
Likely, many of you are responding like this: “You’re wrong. Jesus said ‘But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions. (Matt. 6:15 NASB)’. He does not say they must repent.” The last sentence is true, but I will explain why I believe the common understanding that we should forgive them without their repentance is incorrect.
By the time of Jesus, the Jewish scholars had developed a comprehensive understanding of forgiveness, repentance, and all associated behaviors. Most of them agreed that repentance requires five elements: recognition of one’s sins as sins, remorse, desisting from sin, restitution where possible, and confession. As you can see, this relatively parallels the process of a person’s understanding before accepting Christ as Savior. If, and only if, repentance is complete, then the one who was sinned against is obligated to forgive the sinner. In fact, failure to forgive (after three statements of repentance) was considered to be a sin on their part. (Note: If you wish to learn more, one source is Repentance and Forgiveness, written by Rabbi David Blumenthal.)
Understanding this is important, because this Jewish understanding of forgiveness would have been presumed by the Jews at the time of Jesus. In other words, Jesus did not need to mention repentance as necessary for forgiveness because they already understood it was necessary.
It seems that the emphasis on love in the church has caused us to overlook the requirement of repentance. I recommend this exercise: Temporarily adopt the Jewish mindset on forgiveness, and then read Jesus’ words about forgiveness (e.g. Matt. 6:15 above). They still make sense, don’t they?
There is one verse that I believe presents an insurmountable obstacle to the concept of forgiving without repentance. In Luke 17:3, Jesus says “Be on your guard! If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him. (NASB)”. How does this make sense from the perspective of forgiving your brother without repentance? However, from the Jewish understanding this verse presents no difficulty.
Another difficult passage is Matthew 18:15-17, which describes the process of Christian discipline for restoration. Jesus does not teach that you are to forgive the sinner without repentance. In fact, when they do not repent, he says to treat them as a Gentile and a tax collector, effectively removing them from the church. How does this make sense from the perspective of forgiving your brother without repentance?
It is my understanding that forgiveness by God is conditional on our repentance. I do not believe that God would desire us to forgive others without the same condition. It seems that those who have had to deal with long-term, repeated sin by others against them easily recognize this requirement. Almost all others presume that forgiveness without repentance is the godly action. Dietrich Bonhoeffer referred to this behavior when he wrote “Cheap grace is the preaching of forgiveness without requiring repentance”.
I now return to the concept of releasing the other’s sin to God. Forgiving the sin and releasing the sin to God are not the same, but are separate yet related concepts. It is absolutely possible, but admittedly often difficult, to release the sin to God without the sinner repenting to us. We must relinquish our desire for vengeance and trust God to handle that person appropriately. Consider this thought: Releasing their sin to God is not forgiving their sin. Pray about it. Meditate on it.
Should we forgive when they repent? Of course. But we must first release the sin to God before we can truly forgive the sinner “from the heart”. When we do this, restoration of relationship can be achieved. God desires the best in all relationships, first between Himself and each person, and secondly between all people.
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Well, I can tell you you are not alone in holding those beliefs. I frequently encounter people who also believe as you do. So it is possible that some people are seeing something in those passages that I cannot.
However, I can tell you that I have experienced, “long-term, repeated sin by others against them” and I still cannot “easily recognize this requirement.” I think I can picture something like an abusive person allowed to continue abusing you and people mis-appropiating the whole concept of forgiveness, as if to say, “you must just tolerate such behavior and endlessly forgive while we all completely ignore the other persons’s bad behavior”. I don’t think that’s what God intended either, but it is something that often occurs in the real world. So the options are to now harbor unforgiveness and bitterness towards not only the wrong doer, but those who have failed to protect you. Or you can just free yourself, forgive, understand that human beings are imperfect and flawed,and move forward.
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This was very thoughtfully put together and I appreciated it. I actually agree with this viewpoint, but at the same time IB’s post did not stir up disagreement in me. I think I read the “forgiveness” she described as something other than forgiveness since we cannot forgive sin as a sinners need from God. Her post doesn’t allow for the interpersonal dynamics commanded of local congregations and leaves the people at a loss to understand how they should have needed to be told that it’s wrong to withhold forgiveness from themselves after God has forgiven, removed the guilt. But her post does help s with how we maybe all ourselves best in many different situations that we may face (still admitting that it is as if I read a different word in place of forgiveness, a word our English language doesn’t seem to have) and it also may apply to certain interactions with non-Christians.
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Matthew 6:15 is also crystal clear: “…but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.” Forgiveness frees me, repentance frees them. Besides, you stand in God’s way when you don’t forgive. Release offenders to Him.
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I have found that when I held resentment against others for their offenses against me, they often would harbor in my mind for a long time and would continue to bother me. When I truly prayed to God and asked for the strength and mercy through Christ to forgive (without desiring or expecting an “I’m sorry” from the other person), it was like a heavy burden was instantly lifted off of me! The resentment was gone!
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Amen! It is like letting go of a huge burden, one that often doesn’t even belong to us. Instant relief, indeed.
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You and I have had this conversation before. The subjects of repentance and forgiveness are complicated, but I’ll summarize:
* God calls us to believe and then gives us faith. God calls us to repent and then gives us repentance.
* Those who harden their hearts and refuse to believe or repent lose the gift of salvation. Of course only God can judge whose heart is permanently hardened and who will yet be changed by the power of his Word. For us, they are all mission opportunities.
* Christians are called to consider all sins forgiven–if they were not, then something in this evil world would be more powerful than the cross of Christ. Ergo, we cannot consider anyone unforgiven merely because they hurt us or got in our way.
* Christians are also to exercise judgment about when we announce forgiveness. We are not to give what is holy to dogs or cast pearls before swine. If a sinner refuses to repent, we must not announce, “nevertheless, you are forgiven.” OKRickety has given the Scriptural basis for this teaching.
* Our purpose in speaking the commands of God and rebuking sinners is always to call for repentance, giving us the opportunity to share the Gospel of salvation. When a sinner is hardened toward the Law and will not repent, we are to warn that sinner twice, then turn away. Many more opportunities exist for us to share the Gospel and bring forgiveness; knocking ourselves out over one stubborn sinner is a waste of our time. God will find other ways to reach that sinner, and we have other people he wants us to reach. J.
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This was very well put together as well!
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Love this!
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I agree with you! We must always forgive!
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I saw someone mentioned Luke 17:3. Here’s my take why this does not logically support conditional forgiveness: https://veritasdomain.wordpress.com/2009/05/27/luke-173-do-we-forgive-others/
Let me know what you think.
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That’s really well said. I think you’ve laid it out clearly.
Language can be very challenging, and especially when we are taking just one verse and building a theory around it. One thing that is so amazing about the bible is that it repeats itself and verifies itself, so we can put it all in context and arrive at the truth.
I see Luke 17:3 as a simple commandment based mostly on the placement of the commas and the word “and.” It is not conditional, one upon the other, but all at the same time.
From my understanding, God never makes our own behavior conditional on the behavior of others. So He does not say, “honor your parents if they are good parents.” God’s own convenants with us were always kept, even though we were often out wandering in the desert and murmuring.
I suspect there may be some confusion when it comes to church discipline, something you also wrote about. So while I am speaking of forgiveness as a path for individuals, for our own spiritual health, I think some of the Luke 17:3 people are picturing something more akin to church discipline. Can we stand up for our beliefs? Do we have to just forgive the unrepentant among us who do harm and continue to do harm? Those are all valid questions I don’t really have answers for. How do you protect your tribe and provide safety for them as a group?
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“From my understanding, God never makes our own behavior conditional on the behavior of others.”
I think He does. Consider the case of church discipline as found in Matthew 18:15-17. Not only is our behavior dependent on the response of the sinner during the process, but the ultimate response is to treat the unrepentant sinner “as a Gentile and a tax collector.”, but accept them back into the church if the sinner does repent.
Certainly, our general behavior is to be based on the model of Christ, but there are times that the wise behavior is determined by the other’s behavior.
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I think we need to be very cautious there, because later in Matthew 18 we have the “parable of the unmerciful servant” that concludes with, “This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother or sister from your heart.”
As to gentiles and tax collectors, I would also urge caution. Christ Himself dined with tax collectors and grafted in the gentiles.
So much damage has been done in Christ’s name by Christians and churches that have falsely accused people of sin and wrongly cast them out. There are men I know right now who have been bullied and pushed around by churches and taken their families and left, as they probably should have, but they’ll never return to the church and I can’t say they’re wrong.
Perhaps I’ll always be an outlier, because I can tell you right now if someone lovingly pointed out some sin of mine there’s a chance I’d take their words to heart, but if some churchian treated me like Dalrock, Vox Day, Donal Graeme and some of the others have, I’d simply revoke their authority, wash my hands of them, and find some believers with a better understanding of grace.
So while you make good points technically, I must urge caution and keep asking, wait, what does this look like in the real world? How does this compare with other parts of scripture?With the wrong heart, with bad intentions, it just looks very red pillian to me.
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IB,
“I see Luke 17:3 as a simple commandment based mostly on the placement of the commas and the word “and.” It is not conditional, one upon the other, but all at the same time.”
I presume you realize there was no punctuation in New Testament Greek. It is added by the translators for readability today. Also, the word translated as “and” can be translated as “then”. This is done in the New Living Translation which reads: “So watch yourselves! “If another believer sins, rebuke that person; then if there is repentance, forgive.” In other words, your interpretation of the scriptures may be unknowingly swayed by the understanding of the translators.
Christians should always be prepared to forgive the repentant sinner from the heart. If they are not prepared, then achieving that attitude should be a high priority.
Well, the question was whether God expects our behavior to be conditional on other’s behavior, but you now seem to have returned to church discipline, specifically its use and misuse.
You said earlier: “Can we stand up for our beliefs? Do we have to just forgive the unrepentant among us who do harm and continue to do harm? Those are all valid questions I don’t really have answers for. How do you protect your tribe and provide safety for them as a group?”
I think the web page Dealing With Sinning Christians: An Overview of Church Discipline provides a thorough coverage of the biblical principles involved, and I recommend reading it. I think it has answers to some of your questions.
I’m going to finish this comment with questions to consider.
Does misuse of something good and true, for example, church discipline for restoration, mean that we should restrict its use because we don’t think it will work in the “real world”, or even ignore it?
Since Jesus ate at a tax collector’s house, why would He say to treat an unrepentant sinner “as a Gentile and a tax collector”?
As to being careful regarding the use of church discipline, what did Paul say about the unrepentant sinner in 1 Cor. 5:4,5? What did he say in 2 Cor. 2:6-8 when the man repented?
Do godly, masculine men follow God’s teaching in spite of possible negative consequences?
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I saw someone mentioned Luke 17:3. Here’s my take why this does not logically support conditional forgiveness: [web link]
Let me know what you think.
I agree that the verse cannot be used to prove repentance is necessary for forgiveness. Of course, and this is very important, it also does not disprove that repentance is necessary for forgiveness. Nor do any of the scriptures that are commonly provided to support the idea of unconditional forgiveness. I understand that they seem to do so, as long as you have an existing predisposition to the concept, and ignore the totality of the teachings on forgiveness in the New Testament.
For example, Eph. 4:32 [NASB] says “… forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you.”. Those who support unconditional forgiveness interpret this to mean that we are to forgive others because God has forgiven us. I emphasize because since it is key to the understanding. However, the verse reads “just as”, not “because”. In fact, I can find no major English translation that uses “because”. It is my belief that “just as” in this verse means we are to forgive others according to the same fashion God uses in forgiving us. From this understanding, and presuming you agree that God requires repentance before forgiveness, we should not forgive others without their repentance.
[Note for IB: Just wanted to you to see that I quoted from Ephesians and it wasn’t from Chapter 5 regarding submission. 🙂 ]
[Luke 17:3-4 NASB] 3 “Be on your guard! If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him. 4 “And if he sins against you seven times a day, and returns to you seven times, saying, ‘I repent,’ forgive him.”
Returning to the idea of an existing predisposition, I believe that the Jews Jesus spoke to in Luke 17:3,4 had one of their own. It seems they very much understood repentance to be necessary to receive forgiveness. I mentioned this in an earlier comment on this post. From their perspective, I have little doubt they understood that Jesus was describing the flow of behavior following a sin: sin, rebuke, repentance, forgiveness. They would have expected repentance to be necessary to receive forgiveness. However, as I understand it, the idea of forgiving a person who repeated a sin seven times in a day would have been outrageous. This concept may have been the more important teaching Jesus wanted them to hear.
Another reason I believe in conditional forgiveness of others is based on what Jesus did not say in Luke 17:3,4. If Jesus wanted to teach unconditional forgiveness of others, I would think these verses would read something like this:
Be on your guard! If your brother sins, rebuke him and then forgive him. Whether he repents or not, you will have done what I commanded. And if he sins against you seven times a day, forgive him no matter what.
For comparison, Jesus did not have any qualms about contradicting the accepted teaching of His day. For example, see [Matt. 5:43-44 NASB] 43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.’ 44 “But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, ….” If Jesus had wanted to teach unconditional forgiveness of others, I believe He would have made it abundantly clear.
The totality of scripture also seems to support conditional forgiveness of others. For example, Jesus said in John 20:23 [NASB] 23 “If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained.” If forgiveness is unconditional, why would He say “If you forgive the sins of any”? Why would He allow the notion that sins could instead be retained?
Matthew 18:15-17 (Christian discipline for restoration) says to treat the unrepentant sinner as “a Gentile and a tax collector”. That doesn’t sound like unconditional forgiveness to me.
Paul, in 1 Cor. 5:9-11 says “not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler—not even to eat with such a one.” Again, that doesn’t sound like unconditional forgiveness to me.
It is clear that people do believe that we should unconditionally forgive others, but I believe it is not biblical. It is my opinion that it is the easier (but not necessarily easy) way out of a situation that is uncomfortable or even atrocious. Forgiving them unconditionally allows one to avoid confronting the sinner directly, and it allows the sinner to be unaware of a sin or, worse yet, believe that the sin is acceptable and continue in it.
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“Note for IB: Just wanted to you to see that I quoted from Ephesians and it wasn’t from Chapter 5 regarding submission”
Ha! I appreciate that. Well done.
“Forgiving them unconditionally allows one to avoid confronting the sinner directly, and it allows the sinner to be unaware of a sin or, worse yet, believe that the sin is acceptable and continue in it.”
That’s a valid point and certainly a respectable argument. I guess my question would be, who do you believe convicts people of sin? Is it us or is it the Holy Spirit?
I tend to forgive people and yet still confront them. So the fact that I have forgiven someone doesn’t mean that what they are doing suddenly becomes right or okay. My forgiveness really does become unconditional, as in it has no investment in whether or not they mend their evil ways, because that is ultimately between them and God. If He wishes to correct them, He’ll whack them upside the head on the road to Damascus. It’s not my job beyond pointing it out to them and letting it go.
I can see how there could be some confusion here, however. I know that men, dads, husbands are far more called to protection, to providing safety. So for example, one would not unconditionally forgive the thief breaking into one’s house. At least not in the moment, perhaps not for many years.
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IB,
“I guess my question would be, who do you believe convicts people of sin? Is it us or is it the Holy Spirit?”
Personal conviction of sin is the work of the Holy Spirit. However, awareness of one’s sin might well require human intervention. For example, the individual could be blissfully unaware of their sin, whether by ignorance or by seared conscience.
There are many web sites that talk about forgiveness, especially what it is not. Forgiving does not mean you forget, that you trust them either now or ever, that there are no consequences, or that it no longer matters.
“My forgiveness really does become unconditional, as in it has no investment in whether or not they mend their evil ways, because that is ultimately between them and God.”
That’s the “stop feeling resentment” “forgiveness”. Here’s a different definition of “cancel debt” forgiveness from Chris Brauns, author of Unpacking Forgiveness: A commitment by the offended to pardon graciously the repentant from moral liability and to be reconciled to that person, although not all consequences are necessarily eliminated.
The ultimate goal of forgiveness is reconciliation. I see our “cancel debt” forgiveness of our fellow Christian to ideally result in the reconciliation of our relationship. That is the same goal of Matthew 18:15-17, which is why I call it “Christian discipline for reconciliation”. Going even deeper into Christianity, I see God’s forgiveness of us being designed to provide the reconciliation of us with God, the creation with the Creator.
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Ok…that was quite a lot in your comment. Do you agree that using Luke 17:3 to establish conditional forgiveness commits a logical fallacy as my post demonstrate?
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SLIMJIM,
The first part of my comment (other than quoting you) was:
“I agree that the verse cannot be used to prove repentance is necessary for forgiveness. Of course, and this is very important, it also does not disprove that repentance is necessary for forgiveness.”
To specifically answer your question, I agree that it would be a logical fallacy to say Luke 17:3 requires repentance before forgiveness.
If, by chance, you have not read the entirety of that comment, I would appreciate you doing so before any further discussion.
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I don’t think everybody is talking about the same thing here. Individual forgiveness is being conflated with God forgiving, offenses are being conflated with sin, and the word “forgiveness” is being used equivocally. I see individual forgiving as letting go of the offense and turning the person over to God, which I believe is IB’s position. This has nothing to do with whether they are forgiven by God. I don’t have the power to grant absolute forgiveness of sins, that belongs to God.
Considering the constant sinning we do against each other, social interaction would be impossible if there wasn’t a lot of tolerance and forgiveness. Unless we want our homes, neighborhoods, and churches to become feuding grounds we’ll need to practice unconditional forgiveness. Are any of the people advocating conditional forgiveness happily married? Because I don’t see how that works if you’re always going to hold out for repentance. Sometimes people can’t see their sin. Also, how grave does the sin have to be? Are we talking about speaking harshly or adultery? Should I hold out for clear evidence of true repentance every time my husband gets impatient with me? For how long? When will I know he’s truly repentant so I can let it go?
Perhaps some distinction needs to be made around going to your brother with an offense, failing to gain a hearing, and where to go from there. Because you simply have to let some things go. Everybody has multiple sombodies on their lives who will never repent and yet we must get along. What does not forgiving look like in that context? Not speaking to them? Avoiding eye contact? Acting like they don’t exist? How is unforgiveness functionally different than forgiveness in the context of unavoidable continued relationship?
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I think you’ve hit on an important part here, “offenses are being conflated with sin.”
The modern world tends to be offended by everything, so someone having a belief that makes one uncomfortable is often perceived as “sinning,” even if just in a secular sense.
As Christians we need to be clear about the fact that offense and sin are not necessarily the same thing. If someone wrongs us, it may well be sin or perhaps not, perhaps the sin is actually our own. That’s some strong meat and not particularly easy on the pride, but sometimes the problem is us. The good news there is that we can allow Christ to heal what is within us rather than waiting for someone else to change. Waiting for someone else to change is a powerless position to be in, it makes our own healing conditional on some else’s behavior.
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I love this community! Thank-you for posting, Eavan! You bring up a great point about marriage. It is the downfall of some marriages that interplay between a hurt party and an oblivious party. There are clearly times when the oblivious party should have stretched and prayed and meditated rather than refuse the growth and eventual repentance that was needed. But then again there are just as clearly times wecould make the exact same atatement about the hurting party who made him or herself a problem in how they handled their hurts. Then there’s the never ending lists of variation of both being wrong in various ways, both being offenders. But I think I can successfully posit that marriage success will not be experienced by any couple where either one (or both) refuse growth in personal understanding, empathy, love, respect, and compassion.
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“Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profits me nothing.
Charity suffers long, and is kind; charity envies not; charity vaunts not itself, is not puffed up, Does not behave itself unseemly, seeks not her own, is not easily provoked, thinks no evil; Rejoices not in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; Bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
Charity never fails: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. And now abides faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.”
We know in part. We see through a glass darkly. Isn’t it generally good to believe the best possible about people? That they’re doing their best? Justice belongs to God. He will make all as it should be some day. Letting things go is not the same as saying it’s okay for people to sin – it’s instead acknowledging that I too have sinned unknowingly, I too have been blind and in need of charity, and I wish to be treated with that love that believes I try my best and still mostly miss the mark, but I am trying. Seeking reconciliation is supposed to be about restoring our brother, not about making darn good and sure he pays to the full degree.
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Delightful IB. Thank You, well said. You are precisely right – forgiveness is not an act to match an act of repentance, forgiveness is a state of mind that says forever more I will not be tied to you by your treatment of me. As far as the outcome of forgiveness is concerned, it is a fools errand to not update your world view in light of the act that triggered the forgiveness. Things are now different and the world shall be integrated to include those differences. No you don’t get the keys the same as I would never give the keys to a 4 year old. You have set your own limits in this relationship, do not complain to me that you do not like them.
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