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blogging, culture, curse of eve, insanitybytes22, opinion, rants, Wilson
Whenever I read Pastor Wilson, I’m often reminded of Ephesians 5:11, “Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.”
That’s not a reflection on him, but rather on me. I am supposed to have nothing to do with the things that just rot my soul and leave me feeling sick to my stomach.
I should simply walk away and wash my hands of the whole mess, but here’s the deal. This stuff needs to be exposed! This is a false teaching. It is based on lies and misunderstandings, mistranslations of the Bible. It creates discord in marriage. It drives men and women away from faith. It does not reflect the nature of God. It separates people from Jesus. It contributes to the abuse of women. It actually prevents submission. It is not reflected in observable reality around us. It is unbiblical. It is a lie, a deception. It hurts people. It’s all wrong headed.
It’s a huge “nope.”
First off, there is no curse of Eve. God did not curse His children. He cursed the ground and He cursed the serpent. Second of all, when we accept Jesus Christ we become a new creature anyway. It is no longer I who live, but Christ within. If people are forever bound to an alleged curse to be found in the 3rd chapter of Genesis, than Jesus died in vain.
Jesus did not die in vain!
Wilson says, “It is a fallen world, and this is a distortion of what authority and submission would have looked like in an unfallen world. Nevertheless, this is how it is now, and it is this way because God has ordained it this way.”
Nope! That’s heresy or blasphemy or something. God did not ordain a dysfunctional system. We actually pray “His kingdom come, on earth as it is in heaven” and NOT “this is just how it is now, God ordained misery and dysfunction for everyone.”
Nope!
There is no hierarchal system in the Bible either, no militaristic chain of command. God did not say, women must forever remain subordinate like a private in the army. In fact, the precise opposite! He actually said, “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.”
Wendy Aslup actually gives a pretty good run down on the whole nature of disordered desire and disordered scripture, here.
Did you know that it is only in very recent history that the Bible was actually edited and changed to reflect some of these new fangled anti woman views? True story! They were a reaction to cultural feminism. Rather then engage the culture and address the issues, a group of people, some of them women, got together and actually edited the Bible. Ye olde KJV says, “thy desire shall be to thy husband….” Some versions even say, “Your devotion will be toward your husband.” It isn’t until we get to the modern NLT we find, “you will desire to control your husband.” Or the new fangled ESV, “Your desire shall be contrary to your husband.”
The Bible NEVER said anything about women being contrary, controlling, or against their husbands until sometime in 1974. When I can’t trust someone to know the difference between “for” and “against,” and why it is such an important Biblical distinction to preserve, I really can’t trust them to know much of anything.
Bone of my bone, flesh of my flesh…… In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. Indeed, no one ever hated his own body, but he nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church.…
Everything God says about women in the Bible, about His own daughters, just flies in the face of what Wilson is promoting, it just runs so contrary to what he is trying to advocate.
I have yet to meet a single woman that has ran into some man engaged in healthy and responsible authority and just wanted to usurp it. That is absolute rubbish. You can be in a room full of rabid feminists and the lights go out and it will be the lone man in the room who goes down to check the fuses. Not once, not ever have I seen a woman go, you know what? That guy just takes too much responsibility. Let’s go usurp all his authority.
That is just so dumb I’m not even going to wrap it up in a fancy metaphor.
There are four young girls I know of right now, currently raging, so, so angry at being abused, lied to, betrayed by so called religious people, that they now hate Jesus, hate anything “Christian” with a passion. And I don’t blame them, I totally get it! God gave them their righteous anger for a reason. He hardwired them to recoil when they encounter evil. They have encountered some really vile evil and it just breaks my heart knowing that when and if they ever look to pastors they are likely to encounter someone like Wilson who teaches unsound rubbish and denies abuse.
I do declare however, someday I will see each one of those girls comforted, forgiven, healed, and in the arms of their Father who has never stopped loving them, not once. It’s a done deal, a promise, because that is the God I know.
See, there's this thing called biology... 
Reblogged this on Talmidimblogging.
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Thank you, Vincent. Much appreciated.
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You’re very welcome ❤ 🙏🏻
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“There are four young girls I know of right now, currently raging, so, so angry at being abused, lied to, betrayed by so called religious people, that they now hate Jesus, hate anything “Christian” with a passion. And I don’t blame them, I totally get it! God gave them their righteous anger for a reason.”
Sorry, I don’t get it, and I do blame “them,” if they’re sofa king stupid they think they should blame God and Jesus Christ for the sins of those who supposedly wronged them.
Who in this rotten world doesn’t have good cause and justification for being enraged to the point of insanity?
The same goes for these 4 young girls as goes for everyone else who has ever been born and lived as a human being on planet earth: If you expect God to forgive you, you must forgive. If you think that’s unreasonable, then, you don’t understand what forgiveness is nor do you understand your own sin.
People are stupid in that they suppose that forgiving sin means excusing it and even justifying it. Sorry, but, nope, the whole point of forgiving actual sin is that it is inexcusable and unjustifiable. Duh. God forgives your sins even though they are morally unforgivable and you are a reprobate and unsalvageable.
Women and girls are no different from men and boys in this respect.
About 35 years ago some women in the office where I used to work tried to tell me that “it’s a man’s world.”
I said something like, “It’s a man’s world because it’s dangerous and bleak and scary and nasty and harsh and to survive in it requires manly qualities, especially resistance to discouragement. It’s a man’s world because it sucks.”
They had nothing to say, but, they could not admit that I was more or less right.
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It’s actually not a man’s world, it’s God’s world. As the saying goes, “we aren’t taking the world’s temperature, we’re setting the temperature.” Needless to say, constantly measuring how much the world sucks is a huge part of our problem.
When evil is sold to people under the guise of religion, we tend to just blame the entire brand and reject Christ Himself. If I thought this red pill rubbish was in anyway actually reflective of our faith, I would flee too. Telling victims they just need to forgive instead of us actually taking a stand against evil, is simply cowardice on our part. I am speaking of us collectively as Christians. Forgiveness is foundational to our faith, but it can also be used to silence people, to cover up misdeeds, to smooth things over so the outside of our cup appears clean.
To constantly reinforce the idea that women are second class citizens, not quite human and therefore worthy of abuse, is an abomination. To attempt to add Biblical justification for such notions is just evil and wicked.
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“To constantly reinforce the idea that women are second class citizens, not quite human and therefore worthy of abuse, is an abomination. To attempt to add Biblical justification for such notions is just evil and wicked.”
Being subordinate to your own husband is not the same as being a 2nd class citizen, or a slave, or a non-human, or worthy of abuse.
It’s obvious to me that your problem is with God, that He did not grant you plenary power over the universe, and not really with your husband in particular or men in general.
Remember when General Patton got in big trouble for slapping a soldier? There was no doubt that he had authority over the soldier, but, there were limits to his authority and his legitimate scope of action.
Think about how Patton had authority to order the soldier to perform dangerous acts against the enemy such that he might likely get himself killed, but, he had no authority to slap the guy. It’s a bit of a paradox, but not really once you understand that it’s a man’s world, and it sucks, until it gets redeemed by its Redeemer.
The whole of creation groans, awaiting its redemption. Why exactly is the world groaning unless there is something horribly wrong?
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LOL! Well, at least you are interesting to talk to. So subordinate means, “belonging to a lower or inferior class or rank.” I do not feel inferior. I do not see this word “subordinate ” in regards to women used anywhere in the Bible. I also do not want or desire “plenary power over the universe.” I have absolutely no desire to control men, although a bit of justice in the world would be quite lovely. I do get tired of complete despots and losers running free, being promoted, and getting elected.
Jesus is the one who was, who is, and who is to come. He exists outside of our linear concepts of time. So we are not waiting for redemption, we are now redeemed. He came 2000 years before we were even born and He will come again. I don’t subscribe to this idea that the world is just a vale of tears, waiting for a Savior to rescue us. We have already been given a Savior and He did rescue us! Our job is to step into the finished work of the cross and receive it, receive Him. Then we proceed to build His kingdom come here on earth, which He will one day come and complete, reign over. I of course have no access to the precise details of how it will all play out, but that is the attitude or the mindset that we are supposed to cultivate.
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“So subordinate means, “belonging to a lower or inferior class or rank.”
If you want a Christian marriage, you need to obey Christ and submit to your husband, because that is what Christ tells you to do. When you submit to your husband you are submitting to Christ, more so than to your husband.
Again, I reiterate, and repeat my self, ad nauseum, subordination does not mean anything goes as in abject submission to evil.
Perhaps you can relate to Original Star Trek references. Remember the episode “Mirror, Mirror?” Kirk gets transpositioned to a parallel universe where the Federation corrupt and despotic and Spock had a cool but scary goatee? The evil Kirk from the despotic universe arrives in the normal universe and normal Spock, the one without the goatee, quickly ascertains that this Kirk is no good and tosses him in to the brig. So much for a captain’s authority.
And then there was the episode “Turnabout Intruder,” where the insane Dr Janice or Janet Lester switches bodies with Kirk and takes over the Enterprise as captain but is quickly overwhelmed with mutiny because she was a nutcase and a looney tune who had no concept of the limits of her authority. She was going to have Spock, Bones, and Scotty all executed. What a fruit loop. But my point is that Sulu and Chekov and others decided they wouldn’t cooperate to allow an illegal execution to occur on the Enterprise whilst they were around. It didn’t matter that they were “subordinate.” They were still bound by Starfleet regulations and the laws of God to do the right thing and not do the wrong thing.
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I remember that Star Trek episode. Again, I am not objecting to men having authority at all, I am objecting to the notion that women are “subordinate,” which means inferior. There is a huge difference between submitting to one another in love as a reflection of Christ, and being subordinate because you are an inferior, defective unit.
People tend to obey out of love. They don’t “obey,” they just reluctantly comply and usually with resentment, when their obedience is demanded because they are allegedly inferior. Look at the vaxx mandates, they are a clear statement that we believe you are inferior, unable to make your own medical choices, and subordinate to our demands. If it was really about our health and well being, there would be no resistance at all. When they think love is involved, people, including women, are often tripping over themselves to obey, competing to see who can obey better. That is human nature! That is how it works in a functioning marriage, too.
And again, the word “subordinate” in regards to women is never used in the Bible. So when pastors preach such things they are just pulling stuff out of thin air. I may have to start calling Wilson, “Pastor Fauci.”
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“There is a huge difference between submitting to one another in love as a reflection of Christ, and being subordinate because you are an inferior, defective unit.”
Well, perhaps the reason that husbands are commanded by their commanding officer The Lord Jesus Christ to love their wives the way He loves them, because wives are inferior defective units just like their husbands are.
What’s going on should be very simple: Jesus works through husbands and fathers, husbands and fathers do not function in a vacuum, not in Christian society. Can’t say what happens in secular society, anything can happen there of course.
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Reblogged this on Talk Wisdom and commented:
IB! I don’t even want to go to “Pastor” Wilson’s link. I’ll take your word for it that he’s not preaching the Word properly. I’m so glad to have online sisters in Christ like you, who calls out these false teachers; and warns others to avoid the errors that they spew.
I know of a not-so-perfect example about a young woman who studies the ESV version and actually believed the, “your desire shall be contrary to your husband” false narrative! What’s worse is that her mother considered herself a “Christian counselor” of some sort 🤔 and taught her that! I wasn’t in a position to help correct that situation, which is a bit sad.
We must be Berean in our study, understanding, and in sharing God’s Word! You certainly do a marvelous job at your blog! Thank you and God bless!
Christine 🙏🏻✝️❤️
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I so appreciate your kind words, Christine. Thank you also for the reblog.
Ironically those who believe these false narratives about “subordinate women” and being against her husband, tend to have really unhealthy relationships and damaging family situations. It’s not like these messages produce kinder, gentler women, in fact the precise opposite!
Also it’s bad for men! One moment you’re reading what the Bible really says, she “desires” you, her “devotion” is towards you, and the next minute you’re reading about how she allegedly just wants to rob you of all your authority and control you. So now you have to be defensive, paranoid, and always on guard, least she stab you in your sleep. Pastor Wilson actually wrote about how women are actually adversaries, rivals, the enemy even! There are a lot of us who have been married for decades, who have served faithfully, who love all (or most) men as brothers, and know this lie to be completely untrue. It’s really demeaning and disgusting to promote such things.
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In 1st Timothy chapter 2 it says 1
I urge, then, first of all, that requests, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for everyone–
2
for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness.
3
This is good, and pleases God our Savior,
4
who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
5
For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
6
who gave himself as a ransom for all men–the testimony given in its proper time.
7
And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle–I am telling the truth, I am not lying–and a teacher of the true faith to the Gentiles.
8
I want men everywhere to lift up holy hands in prayer, without anger or disputing.
9
I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes,
10
but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God.
11
A woman should learn in quietness and full submission.
12
I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.
13
For Adam was formed first, then Eve.
14
And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.
15
But women [1] will be saved [2] through childbearing–if they continue in faith, love, and holiness with propriety.
I abide by this because it is the Word of Jesus. Do I think it makes me less? No not at all and does it mean a man has the right to mistreat me in any way no not at all. Men and women are to work as partners having said that we have clearly different roles in that relationship. Many men do abuse their roles as do many women. I will not listen to a woman pastor because by what Timothy writes it is not allowed in the church and I am fine with that. Women are allowed to teach other women and children in the church and I am fine with that. Pastor Wilson is most definitely wrong about women and so many other things and he does need to be called out for it as with women who lead churches. I believe all of the Bible and Jesus said no to women being in the role of leader and teacher of men in the church.
Much of what the other gentleman said I disagree with because God does understand those 4 young girls’ anger even if it is very misplaced and I can say this because I was once very angry at God myself. When I was 23 years old I had my third and final child a beautiful baby girl and was so happy. She was born on February 21 1985 I woke up on May 12th (Mothers Day) 1985 she was 2 months 21 days old and I went into her room and she was dead ( this is so hard to write because the tears still come and it still hurts so much) I was angry so very angry at God because I could not understand why He took her from me and I stayed angry at Him for a very long time. I had to forgive though it took time and I had to understand it was His right to call her home so
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Whilst I may seem to rail against the rebellion of women against God and their husbands, I should make clear that I also believe that a wife has every right to expect her husband to love her properly, because that was the sacred vow he made to perform when he entered in to Christian marriage with her. I think it totally reasonable for the man to “lead” by loving his wife if he expects her to respect him and obey him. Because they need to love and respect each other if they want their marriage to be “Christian.”
It’s natural and proper for a husband and wife to be preoccupied with pleasing each other.
So, I accept that a wife’s submission and obedience are conditional, in that sense, I’m just pointing out that if it’s too conditional it will make Christian marriage impossible. A wife needs to understand that her husband’s predicament is far more onerous, in that his love for her as his wife has to be even less conditional; the conditions for his withdrawal of love are of necessity much more extreme that those that would incite the withdrawal of submission of the wife to the husband.
I might put it in one sentence this way, “As far as possible, as much as lieth in you, love your wives and obey your husbands because this is pleasing to God.”
Romans 12:
18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.
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I do understand what you are saying here, however there are men who torture their wives just because they believe it is fun and I know I was married to one just days short of 30 years I actually left at the 18 year mark because I was losing my mind and had tried to kill myself once already. God never intended for either man or woman to be tortured mentally or physically by their spouse. They are to become one flesh and work together yes he has the final word, but he does not have the right to torture her. The one I am with now loves me as he loves himself and respects me as I love and respect him and I submit to him with no problem.
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” The one I am with now loves me as he loves himself and respects me as I love and respect him and I submit to him with no problem.”
Sounds like the Lord has blessed you in this regard, for which everyone should be thankful. You were not obligated to accept abuse like as if you were one of those medieval flagellants who wandered around whipping themselves to demonstrate their piety. You can forgive the previous person who abused you more easily from a distance, now, if you know what I mean.
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I do know exactly what you mean and I have forgiven him a long time ago. He died this past June from what his son told me he had bone cancer and I will not lie it caused me pain to know that he suffered so much because I did once love him. I just hope he found the Lord before his death.
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Dumb computer cut me off. So soon after giving her to me, but I have no doubt He understood my anger. Those girls do need to forgive because forgiveness is not for the transgressor, but for them. God said that if we do not forgive others He will not for us. We are no better than God and through His Son He forgave us and through His Son, we are to forgive others even though they do not deserve it because neither do we. I understand how hard it is to forgive, but it must be done. In my case as well as theirs God did nothing wrong we as humans have free will otherwise Eve wouldn’t have been deceived and we would all be puppets.
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I understand where these young women are coming from. When long-time Christians allow injustice, the scales are not set right. This allows the trauma to fester in their souls. Unfortunately, we humans are emotional and spiritual before we are rational. At some point, they will need to forgive, despite that Christians failed them. But it’s not easy to get from here to there. I believe this is why God abhors an unjust society. Our irrational minds become set against God along with the people who harmed us when justice does not occur. And indeed when we perpetuate a system that views females as inferiors, we end up intentionally perpetuating injustice.
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Amen, Jill. Well said. I especially liked how you said, “our irrational minds become set against God along with the people who harmed us when justice does not occur.” That’s very true.
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There is no hierarchal system in the Bible ,,,
I understand that meaning can sometimes be difficult to get across successfully on the internet, due to the lack of time and space. So I will grant that you know what you mean there, and may be correct in what you mean. But those only marginally versed in the Bible will be misled by that simple statement. The Bible is full of heirarchies.
God -> man
Angeles -> man
Christ -> head of – Church
Husband -> head of – Wife
Helped -> help
It was not good for Adam to be alone, so God made a proper and fitting (meaning of the Old English term “meet”) help for him. The phrases “the help” and “the helped” immediately create a heirarchy. How is a person being a help if they ignore the request from the helped and focus on their own agenda? It is in the setting aside of one’s own agenda and responding to the desires and directions of the helped that a help is actually created. With a nod to your recent thread on paperwork, how is the boss’ assistant a help to the boss if evertime the boss asks for something, the assistant says no-can-do, I’m busy with my own on-line business?
All other Biblical husband / wife heirarchies fall out of that original one. God DID create a help for Adam. The definition of help means the help focuses on the agenda of the helped, not on their own agenda – elsewise, they are not a help. A heirarchy. (Note that part of the agenda of the helped might be to focus on the agenda of the help as well as their own.)
It goes without saying that the help will cease to be of any help to the helped if the helped abuses the daylights our of the help.
But then there is this, that makes all of those words I’ve typed above just so much hot air:
** Wives, submit to your husbands. Ephesians 5:22
** A wife must not separate from her husband. But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. 1 Corinthians 7:10-11 Paul says those are God’s words, not his.
The wife leaves, thereby disobeying husband and refusing to submit to his request to stay. She damages the children greatly by leaving, whether she leaves them with their father or takes them with her and deprives them of their father. But she is good with God, in spite of the damage she causes, so long as she does not remarry. There is no specific command to not commit adultry at that verse, so maybe she stays good with God even after committing adultry, so long as she does not remarry – as the verse requires.
I’d like to say I’m being tongue-in-cheek here, but I’m not. If those two verses have been translated correctly, the wife can blow up her family and still be good with God, so long as she does not remarry. She disobeys her husband in this situation and gets a pass from God. Why should I think she won’t get a pass from God in other situations where she disobeys her husband?
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“I’d like to say I’m being tongue-in-cheek here, but I’m not.”
I’m chuckling, but no, that’s actually a good point.
I find it curious that you still perceive these things as a hierarchy? If we are going to measure things that way than we need to remember that man is actually higher than the angels, that the Bible says we shall judge them someday. Personally, I think people and angels are such different creatures that the concept of a “human defined” hierarchy doesn’t really apply. However it’s a good example, because angels are pretty powerful, the Bible always tells us to “fear not” when we encounter one. So on the outside it appears as if angels are bigger and badder, more powerful, therefore higher on the hierarchy, but the Bible is careful to say no, we shall judge them one day. We people are actually the apple of His eye, mankind is higher than the angels. To me that all just means that many of our “human defined” hierarchies are silly, based on the wrong things, and don’t really apply to spiritual matters.
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Some will be greater than others in the Kingdom of Heaven. Some of the first will be last, and some of the last will be first. Some will rule over much, others will rule over not so much. Some might call it hierarchy, all I know is it beats the lower-archy of the bottomless pit.
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Whatever heaven looks like, it’s going to be good! 🙂
I highly advise avoiding “that” bottomless pit, but the lower-archy here on earth when you share it with the Lord, can be really wonderful! I’m actually so grateful I don’t have a high powered job or a reputation to protect or a social status to defend. I’ve really noticed how true that is over the past couple of years. I have a lot more freedom to live as I wish, to think as I wish. There’s a lot of peace and joy that comes from aiming low and rejecting much of the Western drive to keep up with the Joneses.
Ha! I still need hot running water and plenty to eat, however. And coffee! I’m not into deprivation for deprivation’s sake. 🙂
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Someone very important to me like those four young women, and I pray for her (Psalm 139) every day. I love the way you closed this post. That is my hope, too.
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