A dear friend sent me a link to Walt’s Story and although I think it’s sure to offend some, it is also a tale of healing and transformation, of the power and joy of Jesus Christ, and of the compassion and love of some of His people.
This is an issue never far from my heart, the broken, yes, but the issue is actually the exploitation of the broken, by people who have agendas, people who are supposed to be in the business of healing. When you are in the business of healing, what is in the best interests of the patient or client must always take precedent. That’s simply non negotiable in my mind.
Sadly, I’ve seen a lot of harm done by those who do have an agenda, by therapists and doctors and people who just cannot set aside their own personal campaigns. I have seen sexual abuse victims flat-out exploited, their healing prevented because their perpetual wounding serves a public agenda. I have seen kids pressured to disclose abuse where there really was none. I have also seen marriage counselors pushing for divorce in cases where divorce is not really what the people are even wanting.
These things still push my buttons, they make me angry, and it’s that agenda I always spot first. It’s a left over trait from childhood, what is your game and what are you up to. To say I grew up with trust issues is an almost comical understatement. If you have an agenda, I’m sure to spot it, but many broken people don’t have that ability, they are more likely to trust in those who know how to tickle their ears. Grooming.
Recently I was upset about the sexual abuse scandal the Seattle Mayor is facing. Upset the most because this has been going on for decades and some boys who reported it way back when hit that agenda wall, face first. Those who should have protected them did not. The Seattle Mayor is a gay man, therefore he serves an agenda, an impervious one that simply will not allow anything to taint the public relations campaign, to threaten the LGBT and the feminist agenda.
Not even the health and well-being of young boys.
I wish these stories were rare, I wish these things didn’t happen, but they are so common. People often want to talk about sexual abuse within the church, about the Catholic church scandal, and I so often want speak of the horrors of the secular world, of the predators and prey to be found there, of the agendas at work, of the people who profit and the politics at play.
I am hopeful that someday we are going to see the dam break, that it will become safe to speak of the relationship between child sexual abuse and transgenderism, homosexuality, depression, suicide, promiscuity, and other assorted issues. As it stands now, we aren’t allowed to even say that and in that silence we do real harm to real people.
Well, I’m saying it.
Katharina said:
Thanks for your post. I agree on the part that it is a crime when tales of abuse are not taken seriously and brushed aside for whatever reason. I do not agree the implicit take on that God does not like LGBTs and the feminists. God loves everybody. Christians should too. After all, Jesus’ commandments were to love God, our neighbors, and ourselves. I pray for Jesus’ love to fill our hearts.
LikeLiked by 1 person
patrickhawthorne01 said:
Katharina, not to start an argument, but I saw no “Implicit take” that God does not like LGBT’s and feminists. IB’s comment was,
“…someday we are going to see the dam break, that it will become safe to speak of the relationship between child sexual abuse and transgenderism, homosexuality, depression, suicide, promiscuity, and other assorted issues. As it stands now, we aren’t allowed to even say that and in that silence we do real harm to real people.”
She is correct, those subjects are off the table for anyone who disagrees with the agenda of those who seek to further their cause.
As for God’s love, please don’t confuse His love as His acceptance for our sins, no matter what area the sin may be.
LikeLiked by 4 people
craftysurf said:
People can always be loved, but their behavior…not so much!
Great post 👍
LikeLiked by 3 people
Tiribulus said:
What if there were no connection between the LGBQT agenda and child abuse? None whatsoever? Would the LGBQT agenda still be evil because God in His scriptures says it is?
LikeLike
insanitybytes22 said:
Of course. It is always the wisdom and goodness of God when we are instructed away from things or towards other things. So, even if we didn’t fully understand the potential harm, it is still there. The error is always going to be on our end, not God’s.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Tiribulus said:
So then Romans chapter one (for instance) is centered on the harm that same sex perversion causes to human beings and not idolatry and judgment like Paul says there?
I just want to make sure I understand what I’m dealing with.
LikeLike
insanitybytes22 said:
Idolatry harms us, it separates us from God. Anything that comes between us and the goodness of God is going to be harmful to us.
The enemy comes to steal, kill, and destroy. Sin steals, kills, and destroys. Always. That does not detract from God’s sovereignty, it does not imply He is not glorious.
LikeLiked by 1 person
lovelifeandgod said:
It’s both, Tiribulus. Romans 1 also mentions the “degrading of their bodies” in regards to these sexual acts. Sin has physical and spiritual consequences, but it is ultimately harmful. It is evil in that it harms all involved, just like slander, greed, envy, murder, etc., and God cannot condone that which harms the natural order of His creation, which is what invites His judgment. Idolatry is also tangibly harmful because we were created to honor God, we were created with the intent of doing good (i.e. worshiping God), so anything that we do to “replace” God is also harmful, although many don’t realize this.
Why shouldn’t it make sense that what God sees as evil has physical, emotional, psychological, AND spiritual consequences? Why doesn’t it make sense that evil is evil because it is harmful?
All that is evil in the world is contrary to the way God first created it. God created Woman to help Man, and we can see the benefits of that when people follow this model in their marriages. God also created us to be fruitful and multiply, which sounds a lot like flourishing, like having life and life abundant. What evil does is rob us of this, which is why evil is evil.
LikeLiked by 1 person
lovelifeandgod said:
IB’s argument is that what God sees as evil reflects the true nature of the world around us. When people peel back the surface, it’s easy to see why God sees the myriad of sins in the world as evil. They are evil because they are harmful, they are not in line with the way we were designed, and they do not reflect love as God intended it. Child abuse is evil because it harms a child and takes away their innocence, and this makes sense intuitively. Even child abusers know deep down their acts are evil because in the Scriptures it says that everyone knows instinctively of God’s laws and yet still disobey them because they harden their hearts.
God doesn’t make arbitrary rules. He knows good and evil, and evil is whatever causes harm and disrupts the good of His creation. When God made the earth, the beautiful garden of Eden, the animals and plants, and then Adam and Eve, He declared that it was very good. There was no harm involved. Evil is everything that ultimately causes harm. In Scripture it says the thief (Satan) comes to kill and destroy, so it’s obvious that sin causes tangible as well as spiritual harm.
Yes, evil is evil because it is what God says is evil, but God says things are evil because He knows they are harmful and destructive.
LikeLiked by 1 person
lovelifeandgod said:
Also, even before creation, when Satan and his team of angels fell, it was evil because ultimately they thought that they, though they were only created by God, could be greater than God. Anyone thinking they’re better than God is bound to cause harm and destruction because only God can know truly what is good, because He IS Good. The demons thought they could do better, but it is impossible to do “better” than God because He encompasses all that IS good, glorious, and great.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Celebrate His Love said:
Excellent post! Glad you said it! 👍🏻
LikeLiked by 1 person
atimetoshare.me said:
Keep saying it, sister!
LikeLiked by 1 person
newenglandsun said:
It seems you aren’t even allowed to suggest a minority would commit a crime nowadays without being labeled a racist.
These things should not be covered up because there can be no healing when they remain covered. Wounds need more than a band-aid.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Tiribulus said:
IB says: “Idolatry harms us, it separates us from God. Anything that comes between us and the goodness of God is going to be harmful to us.
The enemy comes to steal, kill, and destroy. Sin steals, kills, and destroys. Always. That does not detract from God’s sovereignty, it does not imply He is not glorious.”
Amen. 🙂
But that’s not what I asked. Also, God’s sovereignty, which underlies everything, is not what is being directly addressed in this conversation. His holiness is.
When God pronounces judgement upon Israel, He goes after them for doing what is “detestable” in His sight for instance. That which is an “abomination” and a “stench in His nostrils.” In other words, a violation of His holiness and holy name which case I made in inarguable fashion in my piece on EZEKIEL. Which piece you yourself cited on this very blog.
It’s exactly as I started that piece. Does sin harm us? Of course it does. Does God care? Of course He does. Is the abuse that flows from the perversion of His ancient created order of male and female, and the harm it causes to both predator and victim important to the God of the bible? You better believe it is.
BUT….(to quote from my article again if I may)
First and foremost, the LORD hates all sin because it is an attack upon His holy nature, being and authority. That is always and everywhere number ONE in the scriptures. That’s what you simply will not concede, despite voluminous biblical and historical evidence establishing it.
The EFFECT of such an attack is, as you say, distance from the life of God, but not only distance, but judgment as well, as the death that permeates creation because of the federal headship of fallen Adam manifests itself both in us and the very cosmos we live in. (Romans 8)
You keep “proving” to me that sin is bad for us. I’ve never suggested otherwise. My point has always been and continues to be, as the bible so clearly teaches, that the harmful effects of sin upon US are secondary to God’s hatred of it due it’s violation of HIMSELF. You can keep your hands over your ears “LA LA LA, I don’t hear you” until the swallows return to Capistrano, and you will never EVER change that fact.
I might agree with your FRIEND. I haven’t been able to look closely yet.
LikeLike
insanitybytes22 said:
“You can keep your hands over your ears “LA LA LA, I don’t hear you” until the swallows return to Capistrano, and you will never EVER change that fact”
I’ve completely forgotten the legend, but don’t the swallows return every year?
Nevermind.
God is Holy. Sin hurts us. These two things are not in conflict with one another.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Tiribulus said:
“God’s [violated holiness is everywhere in scripture given by Him as the driving motivation of His hatred of sin.]
Sin hurts us and God cares. These two things are not in conflict with one another.”
There. I fixed that for you.
I also regret to report that I won’t be able to agree with your FRIEND after all.
LikeLike
lovelifeandgod said:
I do have a name, you know. It’s Ada, or if you want LLAG. And it doesn’t really bother me that you don’t agree with me. I am no longer the girl that bursts into tears when someone goes off about God’s wrath/hatred of sin because she knows she can’t get everything right. Neither of us are going to get everything correct in this life, as much as you might want to believe otherwise. We’re both just “working out our salvation with fear and trembling.”
Also, I’m still really baffled as to why you even feel the need to bring this up on this post. IB was trying to point out how Jesus Christ can set people free, remove the burden of sin, extend forgiveness and mercy, take away the hurt, give people life and life abundant. Why do you need to tack on “oh yeah, and God hates your sin.” Of course He does! I think everyone knows that instinctively. But His hatred of sin did not get in the way of His sending His son to die. His hatred of our falling short, betraying Him, and, gasp, violating His holiness did not get in the way of Him loving us enough to make His own perfect Son die a horrible death on our behalf. That doesn’t mean that by accepting His gift we don’t recognize His holiness – it’s quite the contrary. We accept the gift because we know we can be transformed and reconciled to His holiness. And ultimately, His holiness is GOOD for us and in our best interest. That’s everywhere in Scripture too, don’t ya know. And that’s what IB’s post is about.
LikeLiked by 2 people
lovelifeandgod said:
I’m sorry, but isn’t this all just semantics at this point? I don’t see anyone here denying that God’s holiness and sin being harmful to human beings are mutually inclusive. God is Holy because He does not do harm and He is perfect. Any harm inflicted upon ourselves is a result of our fallen state, the evil that we do to ourselves and to others. These things are not being contested here. Also, no one is denying judgment. I haven’t seen IB make that claim.
And why is sin a violation of God Himself? Oh, right, because doing harm is against God’s nature.
Also, if the consequences of sin upon us (including judgment by God) are truly secondary to God’s hatred of it, then why aren’t we all in hell right now? If He cares more about sin being eradicated than He does about rescuing us from it (provided we ask for it, of course), then why did He send His Son for us? I’m not really sure I understand your argument.
LikeLike
insanitybytes22 said:
I agree with you, Ada. I remain a bit baffled as to what Trib’s objection is.
For me, I tend to think of animals. So a bear can go out and decimate a fawn and we don’t call that evil. It’s not sin. Only people can truly do evil, only we can sin,and part of the reason for that is because we are created in His image and we have worth and value to Him. We are precious in His sight. Sin harms us because we are precious in His sight. We are not separate from the glory of God, we are a part of His glory. In Christ, we are reconciled, we share in His glory.
LikeLiked by 1 person
lovelifeandgod said:
When in doubt, I go back to Genesis. 🙂 God created the heavens and earth…and man and woman, and He said it was very good. From the beginning, our creation and existence was meant to be a part of God’s glory, and so too our reconciliation to Him.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Wally Fry said:
Hi Tiribulus
Look…I bet you and I agree on 99 percent of what we read in the Bible, I really do. But, what precisely(for us slow learners) is the issue you have with this post, other than IB wrote it.?
I get your position on sin. Yep, it is an affront to a Holy God, and we absolutely deserve to be punished for them. No prob there. See? I bet we agree.
But, unless I missed something, nobody was talking about theology here. I believe the post was the potential harm being done you young men, as the world turns their head in the face of the onslaught from the various agendas of sexual immorality. I really don’t think anybody was talking about not harming God here.
Problem is, real people get hurt in real time, and for Christian bloggers to talk about that is hardly offensive to God. To say that sin hurts people never, never, never implies it does not hurt God. I am pretty sure both of those things can be true at the same time.
I am pretty sure you have completely hijacked this entire post because you are terrified somebody might say a word that fails to honor God.
I challenge you…find one in this post.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Tiribulus said:
I didn’t say there was anything wrong with this particular post. It’s a larger mindset I’m after Wally and absolutely not. I would never criticize anything simply on the basis of who wrote it.
Have you read all the dialog between IB and I on this page starting HERE?
LikeLike
Wally Fry said:
Yes, I have read the entire thing. Okay great; it’s a mindset. I can actually get that also to be honest. But, seriously, what has that mind set got to to with the post here? Good grief, do you really think injecting “the mindset” into every single situation actually furthers the cause for what you believe? I will tell you it does not. Your mindset has tons of truth, of course, as it’s Biblical truth, but the question stands, how exactly has this post violated that mindset? I know you are a caring person, Tiribulus, I can sense that from you, and that’s no bull. But this is really coming across like you aren’t bothered by boys in danger at all. That making sure every Christian in the blog world toes the reformed line exactly the way you want is more important than that. I KNOW that is not true. Just good counsel from a brother on why falling on you sword constantly is not healthy. And while I believe it when say you would never go after writing just because of who wrote it, I can tell you perception becomes reality in the minds of people very quickly.
Just friendly advice from someone who also sometimes doesn’t know how to stop.
LikeLiked by 5 people
Debbie L said:
Excellent post (I liked it earlier) and I just read Walt’s Story. I usually scan the comments before I comment for some reason. I got too upset when I started to even go to Walt’s Story, let alone to say, BRAVO, another great post. But I’ve calmed down and just went to his story. WOW, so compelling. Well done Walt. Praying for you, for reconciliation with your family and for the peace of God that passes understanding continue to follow you!
LikeLiked by 2 people
Tiribulus said:
POINT
(with qualifications I’ll leave for somewhere else)
TAKEN
LikeLiked by 2 people
Pingback: Things I have read on the internet – 64 | clydeherrin