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blogging, culture, faith, insanitybytes22, opinion, The Chosen
I’ve been having some interesting discussions about “The Chosen.” Setting aside the producer, or any other extraneous issues, what do we think about the second commandment, the warning not to make graven images? Does that mean literal images, like paintings, movies, and photographs?
Shoot, we have just gone and wiped out all of Orthodoxy and destroyed the Sistine Chapel….
All in good humor here, but the 2nd commandment has come to mean something more akin to idolatry, so images are supposedly fine, just not graven images that you bow down and worship like idols. I’m honestly not sure how literal the 2nd commandment is intended to be. I tend to focus more on the significance of the graven images that live in our own imagination.
I think there really is a valid argument to be made about the dangers of taking artistic license with our portrayals of Jesus. Never mind “The Chosen,” let’s talk about “The Frozen,” that disconnected, wooden Jesus that was often evident in old Sunday school movies. He hovered 3 feet off the ground, spoke in a disembodied voice, and scared the heck out of me. There is also the more liberal Jesus, a hippy in sandals with a flower in his hair holding children and lambs. That guy also scared the heck out of me and true story, I was concerned about what might happen if the Creator of the universe got involved with the drug culture of the 60’s and decided to just “Turn on, tune in, drop out” as Timothy Leary seemed to want.
So you see, sudden objections to “The Chosen” on the basis of graven images means very little to someone who has already been absolutely ravished by……….graven images and cheesy portrayals of Jesus.
There is a greater point to all this however. How we perceive Jesus is very important to our worldview, our understanding of the world, and how we reflect His grace. It’s quite a bit more complicated then, “avoid The Chosen,” or “beware of false teachers!”
Take for instance Matthew 7:11, “If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him!”
I get that verse today, that makes complete sense….after 57 years of trying to learn what a good parent even is. If one has nothing to relate this very human analogy to, then those are just words on a page and they carry little meaning. We need examples, we need to see what that looks like in real life, what that feels like.
If your father was an abusive alcoholic who never gave you any gifts except for some post traumatic stress and an anxiety disorder, this verse doesn’t really compute.
This pastor once announced “I won’t be here next week, my grown children need me. He leaves the 99 for the one,” and boom, huge revelation for me. I actually cried, because yes, that is exactly what that means. You are a priority in your Father’s eyes. He will walk away from everything to come to you. He is never too busy, there is nothing more important. Until that very moment I had no idea what that even looked like or felt like.
All in good humor here, but that pastor healed about five of us of a lifetime of abandonment issues simply by announcing he was taking the week off, because His kids were important to him, just like we as God’s kids are important to Him. It takes about two seconds for a revelation like that to just change your whole life.
I often get pretty cranky about false teachings, works based stuff, where people falsely imply we have to earn the Father’s love and it is conditional on our behavior. In fact, if we don’t earn it, He won’t love us anymore and we’ll just be cancel cultured and thrown out. That garbage tends to really push my buttons because those are abuse tactics, the tools of narcissists, abusers, and pedophiles. God is Holy, perfect, wise, not a toxic, dysfunctional parent with control issues.
A good chunk of people reject a relationship with the Lord because they have falsely recreated Him in their minds in the image of the bad Christian down the street, an abusive parent, a rotten pastor, or even a toxic spouse. It often happens on a heart level somewhere beyond our awareness too, not on an intellectual level. I can talk myself blue in the face trying to explain that’s so not Jesus, but people will just keep the door to their heart slammed shut. These are heart matters.
How Jesus looked, or His mannerism, or any other physical images are not what’s important. In fact the Bible tells us, “he had no form or majesty that we should look at him, and no beauty that we should desire him.” I suspect part of that is because we are supposed to be focused on how He feels, How we experience Him spiritually.
For many years, I myself did not understand why Jesus laid down His life for us. It didn’t make any sense, it didn’t register, I had never seen sacrificial love before. Tragically this local man died trying to save two children from drowning, and suddenly the words, “Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends” became real to me.
I’ve spent much of my life feeling very dysfunctional, trying to find normal in a world full of chaos. I remember a child who came over once to our messy house, noisy kids, cranky mom, and I was making a box of mac and cheese. She said, “you are so lucky you get to be a normal mom.” It just broke my heart, because yes, a lot of people don’t even have that, they don’t even know what it looks like to be part of a semi functioning family. The world has to be pretty darn broken for anyone to find me normal. And it is! It is so broken many people have no idea what it is they are even longing for.
This wise pastor once said that he didn’t think people needed to be taught about Jesus, they really just needed to be unlearned. Unlearning means “to discard something learned, especially a bad habit or false or outdated information from one’s memory.”
I’m a big fan of just letting the Holy spirit lead and guide you about what movies you watch, what company you keep, what teachers you enjoy. In fact, I get a bit weary about all the Christians so quick to condemn the latest thing, like we will all be unwittingly led astray and deceived if someone doesn’t warn us. First of all, that’s fear mongering, and second of all, “my sheep know my voice.”
jsolbakken said:
” I was making a box of mac and cheese. She said, “you are so lucky you get to be a normal mom.” ”
It’s weird that love runs the gamut from dying attempting to rescue drowning children to making mac & cheese for a lonely child.
As it is written in the Book of Monty Python, blessed are the mac & cheesemakers, for they shall be called the children of God.
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insanitybytes22 said:
Love sure has a lot of different expressions, doesn’t it?
I really like Monty Python, in part because their humor tends to focus on the absurdity of it all. A bunch of what goes on in the world is absolutely absurd and really should be greeted with laughter.
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Jon said:
This sure resonated with me.
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insanitybytes22 said:
Good to hear. 🙂
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jilldomschot said:
It is funny because regarding the 2nd commandment, I know it as “Thou shalt not take the Lord thy God’s name in vain.” That is both Lutheran and Catholic tradition (I was Lutheran before Catholic). There aren’t 10 commandments in either case; there are 13 which are grouped differently between trafitions. I find it fascinating because the early church used images as storytelling due to literacy being so low. The stations of the cross were meant to teach the gospel. Literacy is going down the tubes again, or at least attention spans are, and short episodes of Christ’s life in a TV show might be a way to teach the gospel to people who are ill equipped to sit in church or read books. Sad, but true. On another note, think about the difference between “coveting your neighbor’s property” vs “coveting your neighbor’s wife.” Being that the numbering of the commandments was not there originally, I prefer to not be considered in the same category as property.
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insanitybytes22 said:
It is kind of amusing, because there really are 13, all grouped differently among various traditions. There is even a casual version, the redneck’s ten commandments that used to make me smile, “don’t be hankering for your neighbors wife, the Lord’s name ain’t no curse word.” Sometimes rather then the elegance of all our fancy churchian language, I think we need something more like bar room rules posted over by the pool table.
“Property” is a really fascinating discussion because in the Western world we are tainted by the shadows of chattel slavery and nobody wants that. But “property” can also mean a priceless possession, like royalty or something, where the “property” is under protection, provision, claimed. Back in the day when father’s salted babies they were taking ownership of them, laying claim to them, declaring their property. I guess it’s a bit like how being a slave to Christ is a beautiful thing whereas being a slave to people, not so much. Same words, just entirely different worlds.
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Citizen Tom said:
I think I will skip an argument over the number of commandments. I have no idea where the idea came from that there are ten commandments. All I know is the Decalogue is an ancient tradition.
However, I do think something that relates to the number is pertinent. What we call the second commandment looks to me like an explanation of the first. Once we see it that way, it is easier to grasp the fact that the act of creating a carve image is not a sin. The problem is worshipping except God or putting anything in our lives before God.
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jilldomschot said:
Exodus 34:28 is the only verse I know of that says there are 10 Commandments.
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Citizen Tom said:
Interesting problem. I have never looked into it, and I find it quite confusing.
Did a search. Exodus 34:28 is not the only place that says there are Ten Commandments. Deuteronomy 10:1-5 also mentions Ten Commandments and explains the creation of the tablet on which they were written.
Still, we don’t have critical information. We don’t have the tablets that God gave Moses. So, who knows what exactly was on them anymore? I am also not certain how we know what we traditionally call the Ten Commandments, Exodus 20:1 -21 and Deuteronomy 5:6-21 are what God wrote on the tablets. My guess is that the knowledge of the relationship between Exodus 20:1 -21 and Deuteronomy 5:6-21 and the tablets comes from a longstanding tradition.
Something to research, I suppose.
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insanitybytes22 said:
I think the number of commandments controversy is really just about how they are organized, separated or combined, and eventually presented in list form. Graven images, idols, worshipping other god’s, are all related issues. The problem of course, isn’t the commandments, but rather us. 😂
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ColorStorm said:
Truth be told, there are 613 actual commands, ( dietary, clothing, lending, etc) given by the way, to Jews under law, not Christian’s under grace. Indeed they were 10, as plainly given on Sinai, and it was not long before the tablets were broken to the golden calf.
The Lord expanded of course to include all mankind: love God and you will do right to your neighbor.
Do I need to be reminded not to steal his chickens or spouse? Well, I suppose if I was right with God, that thought would not enter my mind.
But I can idolize theology and an atheist can idolize his pride. The ‘graven’ thing was hinted at the whereabouts of the body of Moses. His monument no doubt would have been idolized, a statue even?
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insanitybytes22 said:
Excellent point about Moses, Colorstorm. Some say God Himself buried him in secret so the tomb would not become a shrine or a place of worship. Jude too, gives us a peek into the mystery, where it says Michael the angel contended with the devil over the body of Moses.
LOL, I like how the Bible implies, all you really need to know about the whole matter of Moses is that his eyesight was still good and his strength had not failed him.
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seekingdivineperspective said:
Funny you should bring this up now. Last night I was at a performance of Christmas music in a church that was not my denomination, filled with “graven images from floor to ceiling and all over the domed ceiling as well! If the purpose was to turn our thoughts toward heavenly things, mission accomplished. In that setting I had a revelation of an old truth in a new way, which I’m about to write about for my next post. I like your last paragraph. One man’s idolatry is another man’s mode of revelation …
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insanitybytes22 said:
Amen, Ann! I look forward to reading that post. I enjoy elaborate ceilings for that very reason, they remind us to look up.
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seekingdivineperspective said:
Gabrielle, I’ve written it, but it is about a family going through a terrible time, and I am waiting for their permission to post it. So, I’m not sure when (if) that will be.
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insanitybytes22 said:
Okay, no worries. I’m glad you got it written! I will pray for this family right now and ask the Lord to send them some love.
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seekingdivineperspective said:
Oh, thank you, they appreciate all the prayers they can get.
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bluebird of bitterness said:
I was raised in a very strict, very legalistic, strongly anti-Catholic branch of Evangelical Protestantism. I hated the ugliness of our churches and envied the Catholics their beautiful buildings, and I felt guilty about it because a) our ugly churches meant that we were focused on heavenly things, not earthly things, and b) the Catholics were going to hell because they had statues and the Bible says not to make graven images. But every year when Christmas rolled around, out came the stable and the manger and the shepherds and wise men and Mary and Joseph and Jesus. Apparently the injunction against graven images didn’t apply during the month of December.
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insanitybytes22 said:
Ah sheesh, yes, that’s exactly the kind of thing I was thinking of. Churches and denominations can be very selective (and often hypocritical) about what we perceive as a “graven image” and what we do not.
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Chado said:
Come off it. We all know Jesus was a clean-shaven Southern Baptist fundie in suit and tie. Jesus did not drink, dance, smoke or chew and never dated girls who do. ☺
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bluebird of bitterness said:
And he turned wine into water, too.
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insanitybytes22 said:
That was very funny. I am still laughing.
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Chado said:
B of B, I love your net- name !
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bluebird of bitterness said:
Awww, thanks. It was inspired by my profile picture.
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jsneese62 said:
I tend to steer clear of “Christian movies” because they are just really bad and give very distorted view of Jesus and the Gospel. I did go see Passion of the Christ and much of it angered me and much disgusted me the symbolism in it were terrible and had no place in the telling of His life and death. The two things that hit me hard like a sledgehammer to the heart was His scourging it is one thing to read about it, but to see it in bloody detail is another thing altogether. I cried for 2 or 3 days off and on because I could not get those images out of my mind and when they hung Him on the cross the tears flowed freely again. There were so many emotions involved in just those two scenes that are with me still today. I used to read the story from the Bible on Resurrection Sunday, but I cannot do it anymore it makes me cry really hard.
As for graven images I have always seen it as anything we worship instead of God. People worship many things, not understanding these things are dead, were never alive, and can do nothing for them. The Hindu worship I believe it is over 1000 gods and worship statues of them. I think the wording of graven images was used because often then that is what they are. My sister had hosted a boy from India and she allowed him to set up an altar to their elephant god in her house. I told her as a professing Christian she should never have allowed that in her house. God sees those things and it just cannot be good.
Do I think everyday paintings, figurines, wall decor, etc are the same as what the Bible is speaking about? Only if you are worshiping them to most people their cell phones have become their god all you have to do walk outside to see this. Maybe this will sound odd, but I go to the song The Sound of Silence And the people bowed and prayed To the neon god they made. Looking around you see exactly that heads bowed and nothing else matters to them.
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insanitybytes22 said:
Ha! You are so right about our phones becoming idols. I had to laugh because I also think of that song and the sound of silence, often. It’s haunting, isn’t It?
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jsneese62 said:
It is very haunting the band Disturbed did a cover of it and if you haven’t heard it you should. David Draiman put into it that anguish and anger it needed. I have always said it is a song that was written before it’s time, but it was for a time such as this. I have a phone, but I no longer use it as I once did more often than not it lays on the coffee table forgotten unless I get a call.
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Chado said:
I am amazed not only at how God tolerates the freaky idols of Hinduism, but also how their culture seems to thrive when transplanted to Western Nations. I though God despised “molten images”? I just don’t get it.
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jsneese62 said:
He does things in His time. Some of them will come to Christ and we should try to have patience and to know He knows what He is doing. Hinduism is evil there is no doubt about that, but I want as many of those people saved as possible. Those that continue in that religion ignoring the free gift of salvation will be punished, but that have to be given the gospel and a chance to accept that free gift.
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Tricia said:
Funny I didn’t even know there was a controversy about The Chosen, but I guess why not! I enjoy the show immensely, it helps me visualize better characters I’m already familiar with, especially Jesus. I think it’s really well done honestly. I’m not a Bible scholar so maybe I’m their target audience? 🤷♀️
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Jack Curtis said:
tHE FACT THAT WE DO NOT UNDERSTAND OUR PHYSICAL REALITY NEVER SEEMS TO INTERFERE WITH OUR GLIB EXPLANATIONS OF ITS aUTHOR’S INTENTIONS?
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insanitybytes22 said:
Ha! Good point.
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Clyde Herrin said:
Reblogged this on clydeherrin.
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insanitybytes22 said:
Thank you, Clyde. Much appreciated. 🙂
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