Obedience is the fruit of contentment and joy. Obedience is NOT how you earn a reward, it is not your ticket to peace, and it is not what comes first.
Contentment and joy are what produce obedience. One should not try to reverse that and put the cart before the horse. Obedience is the inevitable result of experiencing contentment and joy. If you wish to be more obedient, first seek the peace of the Lord.
It’s hard to explain, but basically what is pleasing to Him simply becomes pleasing to you and you just start walking in step with Him more and more each day.
The more time you spend with Jesus, the more contentment and peace you will find. He paves the way to obedience. Your obedience does not pave the way towards Him. That is a critical distinction and part of the reason why I am forever trying to stress the point that, “we love because He first loved us.” Jesus initiates the relationship and lights the path before us.
This weird authoritarian, control freak, parent/child notion, that tries to insist that “compliance with an order, request, or law or submission to another’s authority,” is the epitome of all goodness, is a bunch of stuff and nonsense. Submission to Christ’s authority is what sets you free from that lie. Often people are forever trying to put you right back into bondage, especially religious people.
I happen to be a “religious people” and also a stereotypical “mom,” so I need to hear this message myself frequently to keep it fresh in my mind. Most of us don’t like it because it’s counter intuitive and it also calls us to relinquish control. Obedience can be a form of control, certainly from those who are exercising and demanding it, but also from those who are attempting to comply.
Internally we can start to believe we are being saved by our own obedience, our own compliance, our own righteousness, our own ability to follow the rules, our own hard work. This is another critical point, obedience can deceive us into thinking we are the ones who fully control the results. The results of what? Pretty soon, the results of everything.
Grace requires us to be totally on the receiving end of the deal, meaning not the ones in control. Obedience, even to the Lord, can be a way of attempting to assert control, attempting to usurp authority. Obedience can actually be manipulative, true not only of those who demand it, but also of those who comply.
At the root of that need for control is usually insecurity, fear, distrust, and a lack of faith. This is probably just as true of outright bullies as it is of the ridiculously compliant.
I used to have a sweet friend who knew me well. She once blurted out, “Oh, she’s always compliant and agreeable towards those she has absolutely no respect for.” Ha! Very funny. Very true, too. Compliance can also be a way of disconnecting, disengaging. You are simply not worth arguing with.
Just some things to keep in mind when you hear people pounding away on the importance of obedience as if it were the epitome of all goodness. Oh contraire, it is quite possible to be, “..like whitewashed tombs, which indeed appear beautiful outside, but inside they are full of dead men’s bones..”
See, there's this thing called biology... 
It may sound terrible on my part, but I remind myself often I am a wretched creature because I need to remember that. I am too often short tempered and impatient and I need to remind myself I am not all that and a bag of chips as my daughter would say when she was younger. As a mother I spent many decades insisting on obedience and compliance from my children. To me God is not like that now He outlines what will happen if we do not receive His free gift through His Son Jesus, but He does not force obedience or compliance from us.
Like I know I should be reading my Bible more and my excuse is it weighs a ton. I have a large print Bible because I have cataracts and my vision is fractured so I see letters like double vision and the smaller the print the worse it is. This Bible is big enough to knock someone out with, but I know I need to heft it onto my lap and start reading. Yet I put it off and that is why I remind myself I am a wretched creature often. This probably doesn’t make any sense to you or anyone else, but to my sleep deprived brain it does.
Our Father is a gentleman He will never force Himself or His ways on anyone. He will allow us to walk straight to hell if that is what we choose to do with the life He has given us. He will nudge and He will prod, and He will cause us to be uncomfortable with the choices we are making, but never force.
Today’s churches remind me of the legalistic Pharisee’s that in order to see to it that all the laws of the Bible were kept they made thousands of more rules to go along with those rules. Now we have churches that tell their parishioners they cannot watch TV, they cannot dance, they cannot listen to music, women cannot wear pants even if they are made for women, you cannot eat this or that, and even married women cannot talk to other men unless their husband is present. People are individuals and as individuals will stand before God either blameless through salvation, or not the choice is theirs and theirs alone at the end of the day and no extra rules will ever change that fact.
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Great comment! No, that doesn’t sound terrible at all, it’s really good to be a wretched creature in the hands of the Lord.
I really like having a big paper Bible too, but I have had to adapt, so I often read it online where I can make the print bigger. You can also listen to it, which really gives your eyes a rest and some people have a really nice accent.
Something some people don’t realize, those legalistic Pharisee’s don’t just lean ultra conservative, they also come in a really liberal flavor! I kid you not, the wide open “tolerant” church can be unbelievably intolerant and downright fascist. I guess people are observing that truth play out in the secular world right now, too.
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I agree that is good to be a wretched creature in the hands of Lord it is the best place to be.
I do like reading it myself, but I should also listen to it as I do have a Bible in my Audible account I bought for my man because he has had cataract surgery when he was a little boy and he has glaucoma so reading is very hard for him.
I think that these new liberal churches are just the flip side of the ultra conservative ones I remember. Anything goes with them except loving and following Jesus and only Jesus. This world has become like the world in Alice in Wonderland and is madder than the hatter.
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Wow, jneese, I had to laugh, remembering the female speaker in the 70’s who was confronted after her message by a Bible-toting know-it-all, who said, “Don’t you know that a woman shall not wear that which pertaineth to a man”?! The speaker looked down at her lavender pants suit and flowered, ruffled blouse and replied, “Honey, my husband wouldn’t be caught dead wearing this.”
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That gave me a much needed laugh thank you. She was definitely right there lol. I don’t wear jeans anymore, but there is a distinct difference between men’s and women’s jeans as well. So many clothes today are also unisex like graphic T’s which i wear a lot of and so does my man they are for both there is nothing that makes them distinctly male or female and yet there are those that would try to make them be. There are much worse things in this world than the clothes I wear.
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Amen! Let’s not major in the minors. 😉
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Amen to that!
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Our last dog was the only dog of ours that we took to puppy obedience school. The teacher didn’t like him, right off the bat. He was a pup after all, and easily distracted. In fact he also became a puppy school dropout. For many years, he was rather aloof towards us. He was more like a cat in that way. It took him almost 5 years before he warmed up to us, but he turned out to be one of our most loving dogs. Sometimes we forget that unconditional love is the kind that doesn’t have to be earned by what we do. It’s a free gift and with pups it’s a given. But with God it is truly a gift with no string attached.
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Ahh, that’s so sweet! Often with puppies we just have to get the environment around them right to bring out the best in them. Dogs can be great teachers that show us what unconditional love looks like.
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What you wrote is a good explanation of these two passages.
When a child is disobedient, that does not mean that that child does not love his or her parents. It does, however, take time to learn how to love, and takes time to learn how we express our affection for those in authority over us.
1 John 5 is preceded by 1 John 4 which contains about 30 instances of the word “love.” That should tell us something. The most important commandment our God gives us is to love Him.
These passages probably provide us a good indication of how we can raise our children (and our pets, but it probably won’t work with cats 😉) to be obedient. We can teach them how much we love them and how to love us in return.
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Amen, Tom. Well said.
Somewhere in there it also says, “We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love each other. Anyone who does not love remains in death.” We kind of have to be woken up to love or brought to life.
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“Obedience is the fruit of contentment and joy. “
This, the opening sentence of the post is incorrect and reflects the vast chasm stretching between authentic, classical American culture, and the hollowed out intellect of post modern citizens who preside over the collapse of Christian Western Civilization.
“Obedience is the fruit of contentment and joy,”is like saying pick the fruit then plant and water the tree. This is nonsense.
Obedience is a virtue, or moral excellence. All blessings such as contentment and joy result from virtue. Aristotle taught this 2400 years ago and the Christian religion has been teaching this for the last 2000.
Good parents insist on obedient children. Then follow contentment and joy. Living virtuously requires a willed set of behaviors that eventually become habit. Parents begin instilling virtue (habitual good behavior) as soon as children begin willing their own behavior. This is commonly called good upbringing.
Without good upbringing there can be no contentment and joy. Thus, obedience (virtue) comes first and then come the results. Plant the tree, take care of it, then enjoy the fruits.
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I assumed you would disagree. However, I’m still going to insist I am right. Obedience is not a virtue. There was nothing virtuous about Nazi’s just following orders. Obviously when one is obeying and stuffing people in ovens, one is not engaging in “moral excellence.”
You are probably correct about how the Christian religion has been teaching this falsehood for 2000 years. It seems as if it was even being taught during the time Jesus was on Earth, hence all the references to vipers and white washed tombs.
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IB, in the above comment I typoed an HTML command. If you would kindly delete that comment. I corrected the typo and resubmitted the reply to your excellent comment.
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IB, “However, I’m still going to insist I am right,” is a statement of hubris (overweening pride) because you insist that you know better than 2000 year old Christian teachings. This means that you are Christian in name only, having created your own teachings out of thin air.
“There was nothing virtuous about Nazi’s just following orders,” is a true statement because obedience to evil is vice, not virtue. Vicious behavior is the opposite of virtue.
Virtue leads to human flourishing, whereas vicious behavior destroys humanity.
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First of all, I am not relying on thin air. 2000 years of Christian teaching is actually a wealth of varied wisdom. You happen to be relying a great deal on Aristotle and he was actually a pagan.
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Christianity absorbed the teachings of Aristotle and Plato concerning morality because they are great achievements of the uniquely human faculty of reason. Saint Paul’s letters and Saint John’s Gospels are written according to the teachings of Plato. Platonism was how the Greco-Roman world spoke to itself and others. Christians who pick and choose the teachings they like but discard the rest are called, cafeteria Christians.
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With the following statement, you make my argument for me:
“Obviously when one is obeying and stuffing people in ovens, one is not engaging in “moral excellence.””
Exactly. That is why obeying evil is not a virtue, but a vice.
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So you see, obedience can actually be a vice. Obedience can actually be a failure of moral virtue. Therefore simply unconditionally declaring obedience to be a virtue is false.
I would take it a step farther. Without first embracing Christ, we have no way of discerning the difference. If one attempts to be obedient without His direction, one’s obedience can actually be evil.
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IB, from the Christian viewpoint, human beings must obey the Ten Commandments which come from God. Thus the NAZI soldier is being disobedient when he participates in genocide or any variety of brutality. Obedience is defined by God, not the state, any individual or group of human beings, culture, or tradition.
By defining the NAZI soldier’s submission to his wicked commanders as obedience, you have committed a factual error. Therefore, your ideas about obedience must be false because they are based something that is not true.
In truth, obedience to evil is a misnomer, an oxymoron, in fact. Since obedience to evil violates both natural and divine law, it’s true name is disobedience.
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Obeying the ten commandments is not possible without first knowing love, and next, seeking contentment and joy in the Lord. That is why obediance is the fruit of contentment and joy. One is not saved by our own obediance to the 10 commandments.
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IB, “Obeying the ten commandments is not possible without first knowing love, and next, seeking contentment and joy in the Lord,” is simply not true.
People may obey the Ten Commandments because they are afraid of going to jail, or because of social pressure or because of their own innate sense of justice.
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“Perfect love casts out fear, For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.”
It is not really obedience to “obey” because you don’t want to go to jail or because you are afraid of social pressure. That’s actually just intimidation and cowardice.
People really don’t have an, “innate sense of justice” apart from the Lord, or rather it’s very subjective and culturally defined.
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May not obedience be either slavish or voluntary? And if so, may not any degree of related virtue thereby relative?
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Jack, morality is not relative. There is good and evil. There is truth and falsehood. These are features of reality. The human endeavor is to discover reality and so, pursue happiness.
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No moral relativist here; my questions were aimed only at obedience, not morality. Is there moral discretion in say, compulsory ibedience? (Ignoring the imposer)
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All actions have a moral component. Compulsory obedience is coercion which is immoral. A victim of coercion does not commit immoral action because he no longer has free will. However, perpetrating of coercion is immoral because it sacks the victim of his freedom.
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Amen, though I fear that there remain a few politicians in need of convincing …
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Yes, exactly. The devil is always in the details. Obedience towards evil is not virtuous and forced obedience is not like-mindedness and agreement.
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It’s quite possible to be obedient even if we have no contentment or joy. In fact, obedience despite its difficulty will bring us contentment and joy later on, no matter the turmoil that is happening when faced with big moral quandaries.
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I disagree, Jill. I really believe that is a misnomer. That is the “rugged individualism” or the “I willed it so” mentality that has really infected our modern world. We like to pride ourselves on obeying even when it was really hard. We alone sweated it out, we alone made it happen. Then we can proceed to pat ourselves on the back for how virtuous we are.
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I guess I don’t at all understand what you’re saying. Obedience to godly morality can be very distressing and difficult. Are you trying to say we can’t make right choices on our own? I think God has always given us that choice. If he didn’t, then what does his mercy in light of our failures really mean? That sounds like the heresy of Calvinism to me. Aside from this free-will argument, though, what I truly disagree with is obedience springing from contentment and joy. People can be in complete inner turmoil and make a right moral choice, like choosing not to have an abortion. Or choosing not to commit suicide. Or choosing to walk away from their peers when their peers are doing wrong. The contentment and joy comes later, not prior to many of these life situations. And I honestly don’t think it’s wrong to feel good about right choices. It’s like charity. It gives you a good feeling and is good for the world. It’s nearly impossible to separate good feelings from doing what is right. It’s the way our emotional psyches were designed, unless we are completely warped.
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Well, without God’s standard, how would we even know what “the right choices” are? We also cannot make the right choices on our own without Him, in part because it is His grace that enables our obedience. “It’s the kindness of God that leads to repentance.” That verse does not say, our repentance is what leads to the kindness of God.
The Bible says, “But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.” The kingdom of God is contentment and joy, peace, all the good things. Seek it first and than obedience will not be distressing, difficult, and full of inner turmoil.
All in good humor here, but yes, we are completely warped. Nearly everyone thinks they are good. People out marrying gays and performing abortions are full of virtue about their alleged sacrificial service to others. The Green River killer thought he was relieving the world of prostitutes. Hitler thought he was purifying the master race or something.
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Yes, there is natural law. But there is no guarantee people who are not following Christ, but who understand natural law, have joy and contentment when they obey natural law. That is a huge problem for me in your original article. Obedience doesn’t require either of those qualities. And I’m not sure why individuals must always be called “rugged.” We are naturally individuals whether we are rugged or not because we are not a collective when we stand before God. In that same Romans chapter you quoted, it says we are each judged for our works, whether they are good or bad.
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