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Let me formally respond to this little meme, not that it shall do any good, but it’s good mental and spiritual exercise, and perhaps it will encourage others to think critically and to question and challenge the culture.
I call this little meme social justice Jesus.
First of all, in Western culture “the poor” have become an idol. Poor, sad, persecuted people, let’s pity them and rob them of whatever dignity and power they may have. You are so oppressed, such a victim, so, so sad. Also, the poor have become a monolithic group, so everyone from a convicted sex offender, addicted, homeless guy to those who work 3 jobs and hope someday to have running water.
To complicate things the poor are always noble, virtuous. Like, we envy them their status as the virtuous poor so much, that we do everything we can to try to keep them in their place. Of course, we also declare war on poverty and endlessly pay lip service to the idea that we have to fix these alleged epic fails through education and politics.
I’m an actual bleeding heart as opposed to the perpetual virtue signaling kind, so call me crazy, but anytime the government declares war on people, be it a war on drugs or a war on poverty, that is a war on actual people. You don’t help people by declaring war on them. Eradicating poverty means eradicating people. We have evidence of that truth too, from abortion to all the lives taken by the opioid epidemic, to inner city crime, to the enforced poverty of Indian reservations.
Whenever you watch movies and shows about Jesus in the Western world, the abject poor are everywhere. Right? Jesus heals the beggars, the ragged, everyone is starving and people have to sell their hair to buy a potato to feed their child. That’s not really Biblical! Jesus also dines with tax collectors and pharisee, kings and Romans. There are merchants and homeowners who host and fund the disciples and His ministry. Jesus is not out there feeding the poor with literal bread, He is feeding everyone with the bread of heaven. “I bring good news to the poor,” not just a bag of old socks and some food stamps.
I haven’t even begun to express all my thoughts and resentments around Western culture, virtue signaling, and rampant classism. Suffice it to say poverty is not equitable to morality, or immorality. It is neither virtuous or noble, nor is it the result of some grave moral failing.
About those gun rights. Jesus was not a pacifist. I think we could even argue that he supported our right to defend ourselves. His disciples are armed. He does tell Peter to lay down his sword, but we should take note of the fact that Peter has been carrying a sword this whole time. In Luke 22 Jesus actually says, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.”
As to nationalism, well, I think we could argue that nations matter to the Lord. That they mean something. We are not supposed to be living in a one world global order, we are to be a collection of small tribes, and within those tribes, smaller tribes yet, as in families. And we should take some pride in them, the good kind of pride, dominion, ownership, affection. Heck these days anyone flying an American flag is accused of being a nationalist. If that is how we are defining nationalism, as loving and honoring your country, then yes, I am a nationalist.
So, in my opinion there has been no metamorphosis of Jesus. He is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Also, He is a rich and abundant Lord, vast in His nature and character. He cannot be reduced to a right wing Christian nationalist, but He is also not a woke Social Justice warrior.
So, this meme annoyed me in part because we’re living in a world of blurred lines and skewed definitions. For example a major media outlet yesterday reported that some people in Cuba were shouting “freedom” and other “anti government” slogans. Since when is “freedom” an anti government word?! So today advocating for freedom and limited government gets you labeled antiscience, antigovernment, and unchristian?
Pffftt, that’s complete rubbish.
See, there's this thing called biology... 
That meme has so much gaslighting (or abject ignorance) that I wouldn’t have known where to start with it. Whoever wrote it needs another decent education starting over at about 6th grade. You did a pretty good summary, though.
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Right?! Total gaslighting. Thanks, I gave it my best shot. 😊
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I learned from a book that we have wrongly defined poverty as a lack of money. If money eliminated poverty, dear Lord in Heaven, we should have eliminated it by now. Unfortunately, government programs believe this error, and the result is that those programs “intended” to eliminate poverty only serve to keep people in poverty. Well said IB, very well said!
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Thanks, Randy! Nice to hear from you.😊
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You go girl👍🇺🇸 ❤️
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That last part about freedom being anti-government goes along well with Biden’s new Domestic Terrorism policy. As for the meme, I can’t even with those people.
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So true!
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I don’t know where this story started that Jesus and his Disciples were ‘the poor.’ He spoke against mistreating people who had been put down by society, but He wasn’t the leader of a bunch of homeless bums. Jesus grew up in home where his father was a building contractor and his mother a princess of the Judean Royal Family. Some of the disciples’ fathers owned commercial fisheries and had their own ships. The disciples were well enough educated to write epistles in Greek; and it’s clear from reading St. John’s writings that he was familiar with Platonist and Pythagorean philosophy. In John’s Gospel, John says that he personally knew the High Priest. BTW, it’s also noteworthy based on the language used in John that Jesus conversed with both Nicodemus and Pilate in the Greek language.
Somewhere along the line our culture has come to glorify bum culture as something virtuous—above ‘materialism’ or something. The reality is that most bums are criminal fugitives, drug addicts/alcoholics, and work-adverse, entitled jerks. If you’ve never heard them talking when they think nobody’s listening, you’d be shocked at how self-righteous and arrogant they are. They actually believe themselves smarter and superior to everyone else and have a sense of entitlement worse than I’ve ever seen among the children of the rich.
Jesus wanted us to help those who’d suffered misfortune and not to despise them. Some of the paganism back then taught that poverty was a judgement from God—Jesus said that wasn’t so and that the poor are God’s Children too. But I strongly believe that Jesus didn’t define ‘poor’ indiscriminately and wouldn’t approve of enabling sin by virtue-signalling.
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I completely agree! I also forgot to mention that in the US poverty is relative. It has a lot more to do with a poverty of spirit and lousy government policies than a lack of money. Unless we’re refugees, trapped in war, or famine victims, poverty is pretty much a spiritual condition needing spiritual solutions.
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Jack Webb once remarked that “in most countries outside the U.S. poverty is not an issue, it’s a way of life.” I’ve spoken with a lot of immigrants who’ve moved into the poorer sections of American cities and said that these areas are better than Middle-Class neighborhoods in their home countries. People who speak of living in ‘the projects’ here ought to experience living in one in a South American, African, or Asian city.
I’ve visited the homes of some of the rich people in those cities—in gated communities no less—and really they look like a modern single-family residence in any of our towns, except that the yards are much smaller. These guys will actually show off their ‘lawns’ even though it’s barely big enough for two people at the same time. Actually having a lot big enough to plant a tree on is considered a status symbol.
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So true, Night Wind! Life is so much better when we can be grateful and appreciate that little two person garden and take pride, take ownership of it. That is genuine riches. Those attitudes will then extend out in our neighborhoods. We’ve all seen the alternatives, the piles of garbage, vandalism, and crime. It’s really not about money, so much as it is about values.
I’ve often wondered why people living in poverty in some countries don’t suffer from the same rates of depression as Americans do? Well, we can certainly blame the pharmaceutical industry, but its also just plain old envy, greed, and entitlement. Property rights, dominion, gratitude, personal responsibility, these are spiritual values that also serve to reduce poverty….and depression.
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Ha,ha, ha, Jesus “supported our right to defend ourselves” simply amazing the way the American religious fanatical manipulate their own ideas into Biblical interpretations, not to mention that it is also ridiculous to compare a bronze age sword to a modern firearm and the automatic weapons idiots can buy that fire 400 rounds or more per minute.
I am sure Jesus would support firearms protection and the subsequent collateral fallout of kids being murdered in their schools, after all his dad Yahweh destroyed and murdered thousands on his way through the Old Testament, obviously nothing to worry about.
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Those who accuse Yahweh of murder while simultaneously proclaiming He doesn’t exist, should probably not carry weapons. One simply cannot be angry at a god one claims does not exist. That is irrational.
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I believe that’s called cognitive dissonance, IB. This is what happens when your ontological viewpoint is incoherent.
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“…after all his dad Yahweh destroyed and murdered thousands on his way through the Old Testament…”
Ha ha. More sanctimonious nonsence from an atheist. So, Yahweh is a murderer? That must make you more righteous than God, Skljd. Of course, you don’t believe in God, because you are god. You are the judge and arbitor of all motives and morality!
Definition of murder: “The killing of another person without justification or excuse, especially the crime of killing a person with malice aforethought or with recklessness manifesting extreme indifference to the value of human life.”
Let’s talk about actual murder. “Showing extreme indifference to the value of human life,” like actually murdering over 50 million unborn children through abortion. Of course, that’s different!
Or, how about the 100 million people murdered by atheistic governments during the 20th century. And this does not include deaths from the many wars fought over totally secular issues, but the mass genocide slaughter of their own citizens by Stalin, Mao Zedong, and Pol Pot. Yay! Isn’t Socialism great!
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Thank you for your replies. Yes Yahweh does not exist for me, however he does exist for you and I believe that may be beneficial for you and maybe that is what helps many people with mental health and keeps certain people from committing atrocities.
I am not angry at a non-existent entity, that would be irrational, however as good and realistic as the perceived god maybe for theistic people the indoctrinated religious mind often becomes completely irrational and illogical in justifying their ideals. This kind of ignorance is fantasy preached with a righteous attitude and is what makes non-religious people rubbish the gods and the religious ideologies and this is one reason why many atheists band together, speak out and become activists against religious ideals.
Yes Mel I am able to make my own decision on what is moral and I would not expect you would be able to understand that and to me that is a theist’s irrational view.
If IB can use this sentence “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.” to support God’s approval of guns for everyone to protect themselves I am sure this sentence means God supports abortion “Give them, Lord— what will you give them? Give them wombs that miscarry
and breasts that are dry.” Hosea 9:14 or “They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open.”Hosea 13:16
Oh I cannot wait for the wrong context explanation. How obvious do you people need to be?
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@skyljd
Yet, you have no explanation for your continuing existence, which is the most empirical evidence of all. We exist. That’s just one of many reasons why I’ve learned that it’s no use talking to people whose ontological perspective is incoherent. Enjoy your nihilism.
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Mel, I do have an explanation for all existence, animals and the universe including my own existence and that comes from scientific understanding based on discovery. On the other hand your explanation comes from a story book written over many decades by virtually unknown bronze age people.
Of course it is no use for you to talk with atheists because they would want you to justify your faith in terms of logical reasoning but of course you would find this very difficult when the Bible is solely the basis for your answers.
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No, sklyjd, you don’t have a coherent explanation for your continued existence. Your ontology looks like this….
In other words, you cannot use the material world to explain why the material world continues to exist. That is a circular argument. You, nor science, has any coherent answer to this. In fact, science cannot discover this answer for methodological reasons.
Science can help us understand a lot of things, but it is limited to the natural world. So, it can neither prove nor disprove the possibility of anything existing outside of the natural world. This why it’s irrelevant to try to argue against God with science. You’re committing a logical fallacy—a category error. That would be like Hamlet saying Shakespeare doesn’t exist because he never saw him in the play. Again, this is why it’s pointless to talk to atheists.
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OK the spiritual world is an extremely selective viewpoint of what, where and how it exists. Every race of peoples on the planet has different ideas of what constitutes spiritual entities especially when ancient peoples historical beliefs are included. Yours are no different.
I would maintain the spiritual world if it exists in any shape or form also cannot explain why the material world exists. Your God is inside your head, the native Africans have their gods inside their heads as does Brahma in the heads of Hindu’s and nothing apart from the evasive evidence spiritual or material that any gods exist the majority of these beliefs has anything in common.
Please do not use publications written by man as evidence of anything factual unless it has been proven without doubt in the material world because that is what we can all relate too because we all live in this physical world.
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You see, there you go again with your fallacious arguments, Skyljd. By using your same argument, you cannot use science because it’s a methodology invented by man. And, again, it cannot explain the existence of anything outside of the material world, by definition. It was never meant to explain anything other than material things. So, your point is nonsensical.
We all continue to exist, which is what science cannot answer for methodogical reasons. We are all swimming in this “fishbowl” called the material world, but to act like this is all there is, is incoherent and non-thinking. The material world cannot explain itself (see picture illustration above).
We’ve been down this path before. You obviously are comfortable living with this cognitive dissonance. Science is your de facto religion, and you’re not open to reason, so there’s no point in continuing this conversation. Good luck with that!
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@sklyjd
The universe did not just explode into existence. Out of nothing, nothing comes. That is logic, logic which science depends upon.
Atheists have no answer for that simple problem, but they have tried. During the Age of Enlightenment, the enlightened told us life began through a process of spontaneous generation.
https://projects.ncsu.edu/project/bio183de/Black/cellintro/cellintro_reading/Spontaneous_Generation.html
To disbelieve in God, we must replace Him with a multitude of little gods. The ancient Pagans had their idols and spirits for this, that, and everything else. Modern Pagans, just as Atheistic, deify sex, stuff, science, state, and self, and they are still every bit just as superstitious. That is because they don’t respect logic and reason. They just believe what they want.
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“The universe did not explode into existence” How do you know, a bold claim? Science does not claim this as absolute fact, they speculate on more than one or two ideas based on what they have found out over many centuries of scientific advancement. No creditable scientist would claim they know exactly what happened, unlike yourself.
The Death of Spontaneous Generation 1668-1859 link was most interesting and happened during the same centuries when Christians were burning witches, therefore atheists and Christians were obviously unguided by scientific knowledge.
I know nothing about “modern Paganism” but as an atheist I lump their superstitious beliefs in with all religions and none of it can be called “logical” because you all just believe what you cannot physically see, hear, touch or smell.
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@sklyjd
Only God can create something from nothing, and He did.
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Sorry Tom but I need much more than idealistic faith in a story about God to satisfy my reality.
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@sklyjd
Well, some of us are not so impossible to please. I am quite happy with the Bible, a story about, as you say, God.
Think about it. You trust what some clown calls science, even when his theories cannot be proven with the scientific method? Then you complain about the Bible? There is no other book that has withstood more scrutiny. It is chock full of history, but nobody has found anything wrong with it.
Millions have died, refusing to denounce their belief in Christ. Yet you smugly say you need much more, when you have nothing. In fact, you say you believe the impossible, that something comes from nothing.
The sum total of your faith is nothing, because nothing can come from nothing.
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You say something can come from nothing Tom but obviously you believe your God made something from nothing.
This thinking is quite flawed because your God obviously must only be a spiritual being considering he is not physical in any form but knowing this you then assume due to what ancient people wrote in a time of ancient superstitious beliefs that spiritual characters that were created from nothing (I suggest the mind) can create everything physical, chemical and material.
You also assume that science cannot explain why things exist in the material world. Thunder and lightning is explained by science not by God’s displeasure. People die and suffer not because of God or Satan but due to physical or mental conditions as science has discovered. Science will go forwards, nothing will stop it and from what we know now religions are dying and no amount of religious anxiety or faith will prevent that.
Atheists do not mock your beliefs as many theists will claim. This mental syndrome has slowly reversed roles since before the progress of modern science that has without intent made a mockery of all the gods worshipped on the planet by providing evidence on how the real human dominated world evolves and survives. I am also well aware of the indoctrination processes that all religiously political orientated faiths of the left and right use that unfortunately is so clever it is beyond the recognition of the victims and as you say some will die for their faith.
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@sklyjd
I said nothing can come from nothing. God is something, and He is eternal.The proof for God’s existence is based upon logic, not science.
The scientific method doesn’t have the tools to study either God or Creation. Thunder and lightning, however, is something we can study experimentally. Thunderstorms may be big, but the elements that make up a thunderstorm are relatively simple.
Anyway, you now using straw man arguments, claiming assumptions I have not made. You making a caricature of me to attack. If you have to create a man of straw to debate, your arguments must be quite weak.
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Well said, IB. The poor really are an idol in this country, or a target. Candace Owens calls our welfare system slavery 2.0. It hasn’t really helped anyone actually get out of poverty, just a perpetual victim. The Democrat platform never stopped condoning slavery. Now, it’s just the government enslaving the poor by keeping them dependent on them for their livelihood. The poor are the new peasantry for the ruling elite. The guilty liberals can feel good about themselves now, keeping them as their pets, as long as the poor keep them in power through their ignorance.
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Greàt comment, Mel.
Welfare as “slavery 2.0” is not so far fetched! Currently we’re having a great labor shortage because unemployment comp pays better than most jobs. But it isn’t just that, the first ten grand was tax free and not counted against you when applying for medical benefits. So we aren’t just asking the poor to “get back to work,” we’re asking people to accept a reduced income, no health insurance, and to now pay taxes and insurance penalties out of that.
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The only way you can win an argument is through blocking atheists views, good luck, you have to face reality one day.
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I seldom block anyone. In fact, I wasn’t thinking about your views at all, I was sleeping. If you are that bad at guessing my motivations, it’s quite possible you are also really bad at guessing God’s motivations.
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Well IB, when a comment does not manifest it is easy to expect it was blocked. Ok I apologise for the assumption and it is easy to see why theists have to guess what the Bible passages mean.
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This meme is nothing compared to this (christian socialism):
https://catholicnetwork.us/2021/06/24/christianity-is-social-and-we-can-make-clear-the-incompatibility-of-the-socialist-faith-life-and-hope-of-christianity-with-the-antisocial-logics-practices-and-effects-of-capitalism/
If there is a figure resembling modern socialists in the bible, it’s not Jesus but Judas Ischariot.
John 12:1-8
1 Then Jesus six days before the passover came to Bethany, where Lazarus was, which had been dead, whom he raised from the dead.
2 There they made him a supper; and Martha served: but Lazarus was one of them that sat at the table with him.
3 Then took Mary a pound of ointment of spikenard, very costly, and anointed the feet of Jesus, and wiped his feet with her hair: and the house was filled with the odour of the ointment.
4 Then saith one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, Simon’s son, which should betray him,
5 Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred pence, and given to the poor?
6 This he said, not that he cared for the poor; but because he was a thief, and had the bag, and bare what was put therein.
7 Then said Jesus, Let her alone: against the day of my burying hath she kept this.
8 For the poor always ye have with you; but me ye have not always.
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Good grief, I read that appalling article. Arrrgg….Sadly that is not unusual, I’ve heard many versions of it.
I remain baffled about the lure and seduction of socialism across such a variety of people, as well as their unwillingness to even discuss it. History really has shown us that socialism is much like what happened with Judas Iscariot. Good points!
All I want is some reassurance that all this alleged compassion for the poor doesn’t lead us right into torture, starvation, execution, and killing fields. That really is what history has clearly demonstrated, every single time it has been tried.
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“I remain baffled about the lure and seduction of socialism across such a variety of people”
The short answer is: Socialism is only attractive for those who have never experienced it.
Education either failed to teach the history of socialism or it did rewrite history (Howard Zinn et al).
Add to that the propaganda/censorship of the “mainstream” media / social media.
Those who lived the “cold war” and those who learned the bloody history of socialist regimes are much less susceptible to the siren song of socialism. Even so, this short answer cannot explain the willful blindness of many who know history and still fall for the socialist utopia.
Before socialism other ideas of utopia existed (Cockaigne etc.).
Perhaps the answer is, that man’s yearning for utopia is hard to overcome or perhaps it’s hard to accept that there’s no utopia in this world and in this life. This is especially true for those who refuse to accept man’s flawed nature and the existence of an afterlife.
I think that those who cling to the idea of utopia just refuse to be mature, refuse to grow up.
When Dorothy sings “Somewhere over the rainbow” in “The wizard of Oz” we all understand what she feels and we empathize with the little girl but we also understand that there is no place where “troubles melt like lemon drops”.
That does not mean that we have to become cynics. We can all make ourselves and this world better by doing the things that we can do within our limitations. We will never be perfect and we will always be flawed but as much as we can follow the example of Jesus Christ, as much can we make this world better.
Refusal to accept human nature as it is, I believe, is the main reason why so many cling to the idea of a socialist utopia which requires a radically different human nature, a human nature which has never existed.
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Great answer! I’ll ponder that one for a while. I have never met an advocate for socialism who was willing to consider or accept man’s fallen nature. They all just picture an imaginary utopia.
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Biblical ignorance is sad, and this is a common example. Unfortunately, there are people who scratch the ears of the ignorant. That’s why I wrote a series on Christian Socialism, to oppose such rubbish.
Socialism has nothing to do with Christianity. Charity is personal, not governmental. Charity is voluntary, not coerced, but government exists only by force.
If we don’t pay taxes, we have our property confiscated and go to jail. Jesus most certainly NEVER advocated that sort of charity to redistribute wealth.
Romans 13:1-7 addresses the purpose of government. Governments exist to maintain order. Otherwise, the Bible has almost nothing good to say about human government. Anyone who has actually read the Bible knows that God has no expectations that government should be trusted with charity. Instead, we see the church taking care of widows.
What the Bible promises is that the elect will one day live in the Kingdom of God and that Jesus will be our visible ruler. Jesus will personally wipe away our tears.
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This commandmend alone makes socialism incompatible with Christianity: “Thou shalt not steal.”
Yep, charity at gunpoint is no charity at all.
I’ll read your posts on socialism when time permits. Thanks for your work.
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@artaxes
Yep! Socialism is motivated by envy and executed as theft. So, it violates two commandments.
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Right on. Jesus most certainly could have given bread and cheese to everybody but he did not do it. Neither did he promote any government agency to do it. I believe he did see that as a part of the Christian’s duty – to widows and orphans. Why did he specify those groups. It is obvious that he expected the able bodied to use the “talent” he gives them to make bread for themselves.
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