I speak of course of Aimee Byrd who has written a post called, ONE YEAR AFTER PUBLISHING RECOVERING FROM BIBLICAL MANHOOD AND WOMANHOOD.
I’ve seen it, been there, done that. I’m also quite familiar with “coarse critique” from groups like Genevan Commons. Let’s just call that what it really is, targeted threats towards women in what are often porn laden rants disguised as ‘speaking the truth in love” or ”’contending for the faith.” What you see spoken publicly is really only the tip of the ice berg compared to what goes on in private messages and behind the scenes.
It is downright vile. Anybody who tries to dismiss this as ‘coarse critique’ or ‘social media conflicts,’ poppycock. These are not ‘misunderstandings.’ Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks. That is actually ‘Biblical” truth.
It is really nothing more than the hysterical posturing of frightened male peacockery, all those little feathers puffing up so their perceived threats, their rivals, real or imagined, will think they are so much bigger and badder than they really are.
Perceived threat, that would be you. Often women have a victim mindset so deeply ingrained in us, that we don’t even perceive ourselves as a threat, as dangerous, as the predator in this equation. They are busy posturing in a quite terrified manner and we sit there quietly, submissively even, all confused, befuddled, thinking, but I am really quite likeable and not skeery at all! Guys, I just want to be friends! I must be perceiving this entire situation wrong because nobody in their right mind could possibly be afraid of me…..
They are not in their right mind.
I too once wanted to save the world, to change the whole system, to win them over, to earn their respect and admiration, to earn a seat at the table. At some point on the journey I had to ask myself, ”why?” Why do you seek approval, acceptance, validation, from a bunch of dim witted, strutting peacocks? First, it will never happen, but should you succeed in this mission, you will have become a member of the dim witted, strutting peacocks all busy being ruled by fear, power, and control, and not by the Holy Spirit. Is that really what you want??
It is not that you ask too much Aimee, but that you ask too little. You are seeking friendship with the world, starving and striving to be allowed to feast beside a bunch of pharisee in the pig trough.
I have many issues with modern day feminism and this is a huge one right here. We are not thermometers running about taking the world’s temperature to see how sick it is and how oppressed we are, we are the daughters of a Most High God and we control the entire thermostat. We set the tone. It is not that you think too highly of yourself, it is that you do not think highly enough of yourself! We are the Lord’s investment, His most prized possession, the apple of His eye. The world does not need to change for us to be satisfied, these men do not need to change, we simply need to step into our birthright, into our full inheritance………and walk out of the pig pen.
Aimee wants justice most likely, respect, the righting of wrongs and restoration. As gently as I can, that was accomplished 2000 years ago on the cross. It is finished. Drop the rope in this power struggle and walk away, because the affections of these who wallow in their dysfunction are so not worthy of you.
See, there's this thing called biology... 
“I have many issues with modern day feminism”
Modern day feminism has been a diabolically powerful force for promoting misogyny. I used to be a normal healthy male but after getting a load of the modern day woman who is infected with feminism I have no use for any of them. Just a fact of life for me, I don’t use it as an excuse to abuse anyone. But what I am saying is, don’t be surprised that there has arisen such an amazingly breathtaking amount of contempt and wrath, we were warned about such an eventuality thousands of years ago:
Esther 1:
16 And Memucan answered before the king and the princes, Vashti the queen hath not done wrong to the king only, but also to all the princes, and to all the people that are in all the provinces of the king Ahasuerus.
17 For this deed of the queen shall come abroad unto all women, so that they shall despise their husbands in their eyes, when it shall be reported, The king Ahasuerus commanded Vashti the queen to be brought in before him, but she came not.
18 Likewise shall the ladies of Persia and Media say this day unto all the king’s princes, which have heard of the deed of the queen. Thus shall there arise too much contempt and wrath.
Another thing I’m saying is that it’s not honest to hide behind the obvious unfairness of the vile abusiveness to pretend that there is nothing wrong with women nowadays. As long as women act like they are not insufferable, the more suffering will occur, make no mistake about it.
Once again, to reiterate and repeat my self, I am not excusing the meanness, not at all, I’m saying that what goes around comes back around after picking up speed and increasing in intensity.
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Are you actually saying that if only Queen Vashti had obeyed her husband and allowed herself to be paraded about in front of a bunch of drunken men we would not be having these issues today?? I am not mad, I am actually laughing, scratching my head wondering how in the world one could take the tale of Esther and transform it into a warning about the dangers of female rebellion??
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As opposed to reading that passage as it was clearly intended, as ridicule of the king and his advisors. Just sayin.
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That cannot be the case because then you can’t explain the rest of the story. What made Queen Esther (Hadassah) so much superior to the insolent bitch Queen Vashti? Why was it said that Queen Vashit was replaced by someone more worthy than her? Because, Queen Vashti earned the love of the King whilst Vashti earned the contempt of all decent people everywhere for all eternity. The King gave Esther (Hadassah) what she desired because she deserved it, whilst Vashti got what she had coming to her, which was a great big stinking steaming pile of jack friggin’ squat.
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I sure mangled that reply, but I think y’all get the point.
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I think that a lot of the Red Pills in the ‘Manosphere’ look at the Persian King as a role model for ‘Alpha’ males. Those ‘Beta Chumps’ who worried about ‘social justice’ and ‘democracy’ over in Greece gave him a thorough beating, though.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerxes_I#Campaigns
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Vashti wanted to be Queen but she didn’t want to accept the responsibilities and duties that attended such a high and exalted position. Hey, just like that POS Meghan Markle, whom I cannot stand.
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You can’t read Esther (Hadassah) any other way. Nobody ever prayed a blessing from G-d for their daughters that they be like Vashti. Jews have always prayed to G-d that they may be like RUTH, and like ESTHER. Esther and Ruth were lovable and received blessing from G-d for their humble and obedient spirits, whilst Vashti, not so much.
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I am so laughing at the idea of far too many saying ‘I want to change the world’ How did that work out for ya. Yeah, like telling a tornado to stay away from mobile homes. No can do.
But we can and do influence, one word, one person at a time. But the mass change that infants of mind want is never good. Steeped in hysteria and fear, ‘they’ want to force ‘their truth’ upon you.
That’s right, each had ‘their’ truth. I AM SICK OF HEARING IT.
Please msb, when you are so inclined, do post your thoughts by way of an essay about the devilish ramifications of each having ‘their truth.’ I’ll thank you in advance and be sure to add ‘my truth’ to the mix. lol
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Ha! What people don’t seem to understand, we have so much freedom, we all get to have our own little subjective truths. So chose wisely! The problem arises when we decide we have the right to force and mandate our little truths onto everyone else. ”Force and mandate” being the key words here.
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“At some point on the journey I had to ask myself, ”why?” Why do you seek approval, acceptance, validation, from a bunch of dim witted, strutting peacocks?”
Dim-witted, strutting peacocks. LOL! Well said, IB. Victimhood is powerlessness in any shape or context. When we make ourselves victims of anything in this world, we have forgotten our identity in Christ and accepted the lies of the accuser.
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Passionate! Haven’t read Aimee’s book but I need to plan on it
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Are you people here really so dense and full of your selves that you don’t see the problem with your interpretation of Esther?
I’ll spell it out for y’all because apparently you are idiots:
If you think and act like Esther, you and your family and community and tribe and nation and people will receive blessings from G-d.
If you think and act like Vashti, not so much.
Is that plain enough for you?
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It is clear to me that you crave justice, order, some assurance that the good guys win, that people will reap what they sow. Those are feelings that usually come from deep wounding and feelings of abandonment, often caused by mothers. I know this because I have had to deal with it myself. It’s a good thing, a blessing in disguise, and an opportunity to draw closer to the Lord. He will never leave us or forsake us.
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I don’t waste my time hoping for justice and sanity in this world, because it ain’t gonna happen.
But I will say that the key difference between Vashti and Esther is that Vashti acted selfishly and self centeredly and in a spirit of defiance and rebellion and contempt against her husband and her king. Whereas Esther asked for what she wanted in a spirit of obedience and respect for her husband and her king when there was a lot more on the line than whether she had to do a stupid little dance. The lives of her people and her self were at stake, yet, she did it G-d’s way and not her own way.
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That is true, Esther had a sacrificial nature and was focused on the good of all, while Vashti was only thinking of herself. She is a bit like Markle in that sense.
I think we do need to remember that the king is not rewarded for kicking Vashti out, he is pressured and manipulated into it by some court intrigue, played, so to speak. Those passages are not admiring his behavior, but rather showing how he was played.
.
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“Those passages are not admiring his behavior, but rather showing how he was played.”
Yes, of course, G-d is not promoting drunken orgies. The idea is that Vashti was contemptible whilst Esther was admirable. Frankenstein would say, “Esther, good; Vashti, bad.”
It was not Vashti’s place to judge her husband’s motives or his condition. His request was reasonable and she should have obeyed. She did not obey because she was a bitch, full of the spirit of Jezebel.
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His request was reasonable??? Is that how we judge morality now, by the whims of a corrupt Persian King?? One should consider what would have happened if Vashiti had obeyed? All the Jews would have been exterminated as planned, but at least no male pride would have been mocked in the process?
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The corrupt Persian queen was in no position to judge her husband the corrupt Persian king. You are being obtuse because apparently you are desperate to evade the issue which is Vashti owed obedience to her king and her husband and there was nothing inappropriate in his request.
I’m quite content to let G-d be the final judge, however. I’m just saying that G-d will judge the deepest thoughts and intents of our hearts. G-d has a record of not accepting lame excuses like “my husband is a corrupt Persian king, I don’t have to show up to his party, even if it makes him look like a pathetic fool in front of the entire Eastern hemisphere of planet earth.”
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Well, I was hoping to show you that there is a much larger moral issue going on in the tale of Esther. The victim in this crime is not actually the Persian king, it is the Jewish people. The moral of the story is not ‘female rebellion bad,’ but rather that God is sovereign and orchestrating events for the good of His people.
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” The moral of the story is not ‘female rebellion bad,’ but rather that God is sovereign and orchestrating events for the good of His people.”
Yet it cannot be denied by an objective and rational and honest person that an important factor in the story is the contrast between the insolent bitch Vashti and the inestimable Esther, one of the top heroines of the Bible.
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What “cannot be denied by an objective and rational and honest person,” is that you are triggered by the potential shame felt by an ancient Persian King.
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“What “cannot be denied by an objective and rational and honest person,” is that you are triggered by the potential shame felt by an ancient Persian King.”
In order for that to not be an asinine and absurd and ludicrous statement you would have to explain why The Book of Esther is not called The Book of Vashti and why Vashti is not the hero of the story instead of Esther.
If you think the opening verses of the Book of Esther are about the shame felt by a Persian king then you cannot possibly be a Christian. No way, no how, could a real Christian be that obtuse.
Besides, it not true anyway. I guess you’re too dumb to see that Ahasuerus dealt with the problem of Vashti circumspectly. He was angry but he did not fly off the handle and do anything rash. He consulted his most trusted advisors and they explained to him that Vashti had not defied the king only but the whole entire Persian society. The trusted advisors explained to the king that he had a duty not to just let it go but to do something about it so that Persian society would not end up like human society in the 21st Century.
So, seems to me you are the one who is triggered by G-d’s truth in His Holy Word. If you continue to run around claiming to be a Christian I expect that G-d will hold you accountable unless you repent of your blasphemy against Him and His beloved Esther.
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Bahahaha! You should be careful, our words can be very reflective, like a mirror. They reflect the condition of our own heart. Your words are angry and full of venom. I pose no threat to you and am hardly worthy of being accused of being ignorant, obtuse, dumb, and blasphemous.
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“Your words are angry and full of venom.”
You attack Esther by defending Vashti and you accuse me of being full of venom? The truth is venom to you?
Or is it just anything you think you disagree with “venom?”
Is G-d full of venom for offering this as His Holy Word to us?
“19 If it please the king, let there go a royal commandment from him, and let it be written among the laws of the Persians and the Medes, that it be not altered, That Vashti come no more before king Ahasuerus; and let the king give her royal estate unto another that is better than she.
20 And when the king’s decree which he shall make shall be published throughout all his empire, (for it is great,) all the wives shall give to their husbands honour, both to great and small.
21 And the saying pleased the king and the princes; and the king did according to the word of Memucan:
22 For he sent letters into all the king’s provinces, into every province according to the writing thereof, and to every people after their language, that every man should bear rule in his own house, and that it should be published according to the language of every people. ”
I think what you cannot stand is the idea that G-d holds women accountable for respecting their husbands. It is not the job of a husband to force his wife to respect him. G-d will judge, not the husband, which should be motivation enough for a wife who claims to believe on and trust in the Lord Jesus Christ.
If this is venom to you, then, I say again, you are not a Christian, no way, no how, it is impossible.
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I think what you may not understand is that both Aimee and I have been married for many years and we also have a good relationship with the Lord. So, random unmarried men with relationship issues on the internet dumping venom on us, accusing us of blasphemy, rebellion, and not being a Christian, is off the wall, dysfunctional behavior, and out of line. The problem is not with us, it is with you.
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And, just to clear things up, it does not say that Vashti had to dance, it only says that the king wanted his eminent guests to see how beautiful she was.
And, does it matter, really, why the king commanded the attendance of his queen at his event? He said “come” and she flipped him the bird in front of his whole entire kingdom, to humiliate him.
No, sorry, Vashti was an insolent bitch, and is worthy of the disdain of all decent people everywhere which she had for the last 2450 years until recently when Feminazism took over.
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Esther 1:
10 On the seventh day, when the heart of the king was merry with wine, he commanded Mehuman, Biztha, Harbona, Bigtha, and Abagtha, Zethar, and Carcas, the seven chamberlains that served in the presence of Ahasuerus the king,
11 To bring Vashti the queen before the king with the crown royal, to show the people and the princes her beauty: for she was fair to look on.
12 But the queen Vashti refused to come at the king’s commandment by his chamberlains: therefore was the king very wroth, and his anger burned in him.
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If I were you, I’d consider what G-d’s opinion about Vashti and Esther is, and not what silly opinion you concoct on your own utilizing your own human wisdom.
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Well, I think the Bible deliberately leaves some things unsaid so as to enable the Bible to read US. It is picking up on our own biases, our own issues, our own perceptions. In Jewish tradition, Vashiti is everything from villain to heroine. Some said she had leprosy and even a tail! What jumps out at me however, is the sovereignty of God. If Vashiti had not refused and been banished, Esther would never have come on the scene and the Jewish people would have been doomed. The King had no loyalty or affection for the Jews until he fell in love with Esther, until she petitioned him. So if we try to reduce the story to nothing more than a tale about female rebellion, we condemn the Jews, sentence them to genocide and fail to honor God’s sovereignty, fail to see His hand of protection over the Jewish people.
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Here’s a synopsis of what the rabbis have to say about Vashti:
https://jwa.org/encyclopedia/article/vashti-midrash-and-aggadah
One thing the episode with Vashti does in the context of the Book of Esther is establish one of the central themes of the text, which is: “Who is to be honored?” We see this theme again when Mordecai refuses to bow to Haman, which the king has commanded (Esther 3:1-6); when Mordecai is honored by the king according to Haman’s outline (chapter 6); and in the finale of the book, when the Jews prevail over their enemies (chapters 9-10).
Haman, who pursues honor and plots destruction for God’s people, is destroyed. Mordecai, who honors God [we infer, from his refusal to obey the king and more or less worship Haman], and who pursues life for God’s people, also reaps honor.
We also learn that the king takes action at the behest of his advisors. This trait of the king’s will drive the plot of the book, for ill, and then for good. Depending on which advisors he listens to.
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“We also learn that the king takes action at the behest of his advisors. This trait of the king’s will drive the plot of the book, for ill, and then for good. Depending on which advisors he listens to.”
Are you saying that the king and his advisors erred in firing Vashti from her job as queen?
The decision to fire Vashti was, in any case, well within the scope of their discretion, no doubt about that.
The real issue which I am attempting to bring front and center is, was Vashti a good queen and a good wife when she refused to greet her husband’s eminent and esteemed guests at his party?
I say, no way, José, no doubt about it, she forfeited her right to be married to anyone, and especially the right to be married to a king.
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Brilliant! The victory has been won. We indeed need to drop the rope and climb out of the pigpen!
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All of that started the moment Eve took that bite of the forbidden fruit. I was born in the 60’s and grew up through the 70’s and never bought into all of that then and I can honestly say I don’t like most women. The majority of them are catty, petty, and will stick the proverbial knife in your back the minute you turn it towards them. I have had only one female friend that has never stabbed me in the back. Some might say pick better friends and I would ask where? Then there is the fact that women basically tell the man in their life to lie when she asks to I look bad in this dress and other little lies and then act hurt and surprised when they lie to them about other things too. I tell my boyfriend if I put something on and I look terrible in it tell me the truth and don’t lie to me about anything big or small and I give him the same respect. My boyfriend and his best friend had to go do something and left his friends wife to talk to me while they were gone. As soon as they were out the door she started berating her husband then turned and said what about you and Dwight? I let her know in no uncertain terms I don’t play those games. If I have problem with him I take it to him and no one else. She doesn’t visit anymore I wonder why?
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The problem with women is that with great power comes great responsibility. Women wanted power, and they got power, but they use it for selfish self centered purposes. Women use their power to establish their legal right to have abortions. Well, women can have the legal right, but they will never ever ever have the moral right. The truth about women is declared in the state of abortion as a symbol of their inner spirit. Me me me and everyone else can die and go to hell.
The spirit of Vashti eventually degrades to the Spirit of Jezebel. Ruth & Esther are examples of the alternative, but they are rejected by the Post Modern Woman because they are not “liberated” enough.
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Oh I agree with you and the liberated woman I tend to avoid like the plague because I no longer have patience for them. I reach out through my blog with God’s Word. Abortion is one of the most evil things ever and I fight it wherever and whenever I can. Eve was the first to be decieved and it has snowballed ever since. You are also right many women want nothing more than power and love nothing but themselves. There are very few Esthers or Ruths in this world anymore. I remember years ago a woman asked me what do you do meaning what job or career and I told her I am a stay at home mom and she looked at me like I grew two more heads. Then she said is that all? You don’t want want more then that? I said what more could I want than to raise these two small kids to be good people if I allow someone else raise them who knows how they will turn out. I am no Ruth or Esther. but I am not ashamed of the way God made me and that was to be a mother and a full time one. Some can balance both if family comes first. This will eventually come back to bite them in the end being power hungry has its price after all.
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What you are saying here is right, but somebody in the middle of being gossipped about, backstabbed, and betrayed by people who should not be behaving this way will not usually be capable of such perspective. It’s got to make a person wonder, why is there no justice in a Christian community? But otoh, the best people I’ve met in this life have been Christians who are visibly filled with the Holy Spirit. It rights the scales, I guess, points the arrows back to Christ instead of the world’s petty little fiefdoms.
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That’s well put, thank you.
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