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Christian nationalism, culture, faith, fears, insanitybytes22, life, opinion, truth
I really believe in confronting our fears, speaking truth to power, and dragging our issues out into the sunlight where they can be aired and freshened up.
I’ve always recoiled from those words, “Christian nationalist,” they sound kind of scary and conjure up images of a bunch of jackbooted thugs marching in lockstep under some kind of fascist regime or perhaps being a part of the Spanish Inquisition. Maybe Hitler? Everything looks like Hitler these days.
So, snagged right off of Wikipedia,
“Nationalism is an idea and movement that promotes the interests of a particular nation, especially with the aim of gaining and maintaining the nation’s sovereignty over its homeland. Nationalism holds that each nation should govern itself, free from outside interference, that a nation is a natural and ideal basis for a polity and that the nation is the only rightful source of political power.”
Nationalism can be a really good thing! In fact, around the world and throughout history it often has been positive in geopolitical affairs. Don’t we as a nation in America believe we should govern ourselves free of foreign interference? Until recently, I thought that was a fairly noncontroversial truth.
“Christian” should not be a scary word either, but of course some people perceive it that way. Christian values however are what has sheltered, protected, and nurtured diversity in the US. You have the freedom here to not believe, even as you enjoy the freedoms and benefits put in place and protected, by Christian values.
Hi, my name is IB, and apparently I am now a Christian nationalist.
A bit amusing, but it is as if some kind of clarion call went out from the evangelical mother ship and sent all the social media influencers into a dither all at once. That’s what led to the Beth Moore rant I went and responded to yesterday. She was only one of many, suddenly deeply concerned about the grave threat of Christian nationalists, aka, Trumpians. Poof, we now have a new enemy, magically conjured up by misdiagnosing the problem, blaming the victim, and applying the wrong solution.
I myself did not particularly like the idea of “Christian nationalism” until yesterday, but the more I talked to people just trying to get a good definition of the alleged problem, the more it seemed to fit quite well and rather than feeling bad about it, gasp, I’m starting to resemble a Christian nationalist, I better repent, I thought, I think I rather like this outfit. I’ll take two!
A bit of a tongue in cheek post perhaps, but I am somewhat serious here. I totally believe in promoting the interests of America with the aim of maintaining our sovereignty. We really should be able to govern ourselves free from outside interference. I like to fly the flag! I love Jesus and my country. No, I don’t think I need to choose between the two as if I can’t do both at the same time. I do know the difference between President Trump and my Savior. No, I don’t think my patriotism is idolatry.
After I got over my initial offense, I realized people are just really scared. I get that, I’m a bit scared too. I honestly believe our election was tampered with, our voices are being censored by Big Tech, our media is nothing but propaganda, our economy is collapsing, and we’re being forced to walk around wearing a muzzle all day. Also, we’re going to inject everyone with an experimental vaccine all while attempting to install a man with dementia and crown him leader of the free world.
What could possibly go wrong here??
It’s really not good. This just doesn’t end well. I don’t even have a fake happy ending to offer anyone. It seems to me as if a good chunk of the pop culture evangelical world decided the cure for their own fears is to try to shoot the messenger. If all you Trumpian Christian nationalists would just shut the heck up, we could drape a paper towel over this whole mess and just pretend it isn’t even there.
Honestly, if I thought that would work, if I thought our country could be saved by pretending the election was legitimate, our government is benevolent, and we’re all just responding rationally to a virus, I’d do it in an instant. The problem being, that’s not what’s going on here at all. You can’t just shoot the messenger, silence the opposition, and act as if you’ve solved the problem, at least not yet.
The problem is not patriots, “Christian nationalists,” Trumpians, deplorables, toxic masculinity, idolatry, science deniers, or women in ministry. Things are not ever going to “get back to normal” because our national, emotional, and spiritual security has now been breached. You can’t fix that kind of thing by simply denying the reality of it and blaming people for their alleged divisiveness.
You sure don’t fix fear by trying to force it into the shadows. You have to turn the Light on and watch it go poof. Sometimes some gallows humor helps. Regardless, we always call names and assign labels to the things we fear and I forget that sometimes when there is a bunch of name-calling flying around. People are just scared.
Hmm … now what is wrong with this? “Nationalism holds that each nation should govern itself, free from outside interference, that a nation is a natural and ideal basis for a polity and that the nation is the only rightful source of political power.” I don’t see what is wrong with it on face value.
It seems that our desire for globalism is outside the norm of human understanding and God’s plan.
The Apostle Paul calls on us to “Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.”
I notice it doesn’t say nations and nationalism should be destroyed.
We proudly say “God bless America”. I pray He will. We need HIs help.
Blessings.
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Something that often gives me pause, the Lord speaks often of nations as in, He will judge the nations. That’s a rather scary idea sometimes, but whether we believe in the whole concept of nations or not, it seems as if God does. So attempting to declare oneself to not be a nationalist seems to run a bit contrary to what the Bible says. Chuckling here, there are certainly times I would probably prefer not to be associated with America, but I don’t think it works that way.
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It’s all about perception and optics- what words mean is evidently of no consequence- I’ll raise my hand a say yes you’re right, but if you’re going to accuse me at least be intellectually honest 😏
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Yes, exactly, definitions are everything. Also, intellectual honesty seems to have gone to the same place as common sense. We really do need to go retrieve them. 🙂
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An expedition!- where shall we look? maybe they’re in the money pit on Oak Island 🏝
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LOL! My son and my husband love that show, even the reruns. I keep trying to tell them they are never going to find the treasure, nothing is ever going to happen! They don’t care, it’s all about the hunt. 🙂
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Common sense, true journalism, intellectual honesty surely must be found with other lost holy relics
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Yes they will find the treasure! They might have to blow the whole island off the face of the map but they will find it. Long live Oak Island series!! 🙂
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Here is another take via Michael Brown:
https://www.christianpost.com/voices/was-beth-moore-right-to-warn-about-christian-nationalism.html
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LOL, oh dear, you’re such a rabble rouser. Now I’m going to have write an entire post just to Michael Brown! 🙂
So right off the bat, I see an issue when he says, “As a Trump voter, I must say candidly that it is very troubling to see many American Christians far more mobilized for Trump than they have ever been mobilized for Jesus.”
I began writing about something very similar a few years back. The truth of that is, President Trump has inspired many of us to mobilize for Jesus in a way no pop culture evangelicals in recent history ever have. We can relate to him, we can identify with him, we are inspired by him…in our walk with JESUS. For far too long the church, evangelism, has been a private country club, a mausoleum for the saints, packed plumb full of people that don’t understand our issues, don’t identify with us, and really don’t want us around. Sometimes, the loneliest place to be is right in the middle of a church and the hardest place to find evidence of Jesus is there, too! If we of the church were smart we would humble ourselves and try to figure out what it is about President Trump that has made so many people feel welcome, included, heard, as if they belong.
Beth Moore would never invite me to tea, I’m the wrong kind of people, but there is a good chance President Trump would. Somebody smart once said hospitality and politics are really that simple, you know your people would invite you to tea.
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I was hoping Beth would invite me for a beer but I guess that isn’t in the works either! 🙂
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Sure. Trump would take tea with you. As long as you bought membership in his club for a 5 figure annual fee. AND if you bought the tea. AND donated to the “support the Georgia GOP candidates” (oops, I mean the personal legal defense fund) fund drive.
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Nope. I know plenty of country club religionists and President Trump is not one of them. I think that’s why so many of them hate him.
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It seems that we live during a time when words are fluid, or at least their meanings are. Being a nationalist means that your neighbors are more important to you than someone that you don’t know, who is living in a far off land. It doesn’t mean that you don’t care for them, but that you recognize a pecking order on where your hard earned money is going to be spent. As a side note, the party ‘of inclusiveness’ seems to want to label everyone. So much for unity and the concept of a melting pot.
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That’s a great definition, Rob, your neighbors are more important to you than someone you don’t know living far away. That focus on ourselves has ironically, enabled peace, prosperity, and a charitable response to global suffering the world over.
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I would rather be labelled “Christian Nationalist” by my adversaries than some other convenient broad-brush label. Borders, language and national culture are generally good things. (Of course we can analyze, opine and discern both good and bad in anything.) God calls us to “be not conformed” to the Globalist agenda in all and any of its forms. To be a real Christian is to be a dissident in permanent rebellion against One-world technocracy and all antichrist culture that it promotes. Jesus promised this privilege would be ours.
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Amen! We really are called to be dissidents in permanent rebellion against a One-world technocracy and an antichrist culture. The Bible actually says to take care of your own, in part because that also enables us to take care of others. And Jesus did promise us trouble in the world! Alas, far too often what the church has done is try to squash all her dissidents and rebels, and start preaching conformity to the world.
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And I was just getting ready to ask—what’s the alternative, a one-world government?
I’ve wondered before how much we are to reject of the things that lead us toward the inevitable one-world government. I mean, the internet and Facebook and the like make a one-world government much more possible. So does that summit of 8 or so leaders who meet regularly. And on and on. But I think you said it: an antichrist culture. Many things are out of our control. Some things that can, and probably will, be used for evil, also are great tools a Christian can use in the process of spreading the gospel. But the spirit of antichrist is always something we should stand against, I believe. Consequently, I think religious oppression and censorship instead of freedom of religion and freedom of speech, just might be things we can push back against.
Becky
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I’ve taught college students about nationalism–it brought together diverse groups to form Germany and to form Italy. It broke apart the Austrian Empire and the Ottoman Empire. It endorsed freedom for African nations and south Asian nations. Christian nationalism? I believe that’s an oxymoron. Biblical Christianity breaks through nations, combining all believers into one kingdom, formed out of many nations and tribes and languages and cultures. Anything bearing the name Christian nationalism just might be misusing the name of Christ. J.
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It’s interesting to me how allergic people are to that term “Christian nationalism,” as if “Christian” has to mean just one global tribe. However, the Bible speaks often of the nations, and of different tribes. I think it’s a bit like going to church, a congregation is made up of many different families, little kingdoms that don’t really surrender their sovereignty, their identity to be there. Those are tiny little social nations, all coming together within one Kingdom. Jesus of course is the Lion of the Tribe of Judah and not, perish the thought, the leader of a One World Order. So I think that Biblically we have a pretty good basis for supporting the concept of nationalism.
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When I was a college student, I took a sociology/religion seminar called Civil Religion. Along the way, I tried to distinguish between “civil religion” that makes God and his teachings the servant of the nation and “religious patriotism” that puts God first and honors the nation under his supreme authority. As in, no Christian should pledge allegiance to the United States without acknowledging that it is “one nation under God.” The professors were not open to my distinction. But I think it applies here as well. When our first loyalty is to Christ and His Kingdom, we can honor our nation–USA, Germany, Ireland, whichever–as a blessing from God and a nation we pray would be blessed by God. When our loyalty to that nation overshadows our loyalty to Christ, that form of nationalism is an offense to God and to his Kingdom. J.
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@Salvageable
Is Christian nationalism an oxymoron? I don’t think so. A nation is essentially an aggregation of related tribes. Christian nationalism just describes the nature of the loyalty we give to our nation.
We prioritize our loyalties. God calls upon us to love our brothers and sisters in Christ more than we love others. Paul gathered fund for the Christians in Jerusalem, for example, because we owe charity to other Christians first.
We have responsibility for our family and neighbors before we have responsibility for others. Because we are finite, we have to set priorities. Hence, when we speak of nationalism, we speak of loyalty to countrymen, the people who live within the borders of our nation, before we give our loyalty to those outside our country. As a practical matter, this is just a way of resolving a conundrum created by Romans 13:1-7. Until we know who they are, we cannot obey the governing authorities and give them the respect they are due. And for the sake of our neighbors we have to have a government. Because we want to protect our neighbors, we want a government that works properly.
Christian nationalism just recognizes that there are some things we owe to God and other, lesser things we owe to government.
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Germany supported Nationalism and embraced it and that brought a very bad man to power… it didn’t end well for them and cost the lives of millions globally…. Nationalism sounds great on paper… but when you really dig into it, it is a form of Dictatorship and forced conformity… you can not have Nationalism without Fascism & visa versa.. they go hand in hand, and as history clearly shows you… disagree with a Nationalist and you get killed… how much freedom are you willing to give up? your religion/personal beliefs had best conform to the Nationalist views… if not… well they have camps for you… if you are anything but heterosexual and white… well the Nationalists have a special place for you…. the church and state should Always be kept separate… people have the right to believe in which ever god they choose,they also have the right to believe in science or to form their own beliefs and the right to freedom and to enjoy basic human rights… Nationalism offers not of that… in fact that goes against everything Nationalism stands for… it also goes against everything basic christianity stands for… you can see this every day in the USA and to a lesser degree elsewhere… people denying other human beings rights and freedoms based solely on religious freedom… combine that with Nationalism and well … Germany all over again… just a thought. xo
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Let me make some assumptions here. I’m going to assume you are Canadian and that you believe in and hold dear some values, probably around equal rights and fair treatment of gays, trans, Muslims, and immigrants? That all makes you a kind of nationalist, in the sense that you would not be happy if a foreign entity came in and decided to switch things up. The problem isn’t your nationalism, the problem is that you aren’t willing to honor anyone else’s nationalism because… literally Hitler.
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yes, I am Canadian, no, I am not a Nationalist ( I truly think you may not understand what Nationalism is to state such a claim about a Canadian )…I am far worse, I am what American’s are taught to fear ( again because they do not know the differences)… I live in a Democratic socialist nation and am a Democratic socialist, not a nationalist lol… No I won’t honor anyone’s nationalist ideals, not even those held by some Canadians…. and I can not ever support nationalism that is faith based…. that never ends well for anyone outside that faith… if we are being honest ,most religions have a pretty bad track record when it comes to persecution, oppression, and grievous human rights violations….because of man, not any particular god, but because humans twist his words to suit their own agendas….look around you, you see this every day in almost every country.
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