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So multiple Christian people (who really should know better and are totally without excuse) are currently promoting some version of, we’re a wretched people, an evil nation, who deserve the wrath of God and now He is using this virus to punish us…..
This really ticks me off and takes an infinite amount of patience and some abundant grace to even address. Honestly, I just want to kick some people in the shins and invite them to do the world a favor and just shut the heck up. No wonder non believers so often have a really negative perception of God! This is slanderous, it is libel, it is bearing false witness as to who God is, His nature, and what His intentions towards us are.
God is not walking about killing our grandparents and other vulnerable members of our community because He is mad at us. “Repent or I’ll kill Grandma,” is absolutely appalling and false theology.
Second, it disrespects and denies the work of the cross, it acts as if Jesus never came, never impacted our faith. God poured ALL His wrath out on the cross. ALL! “It is finished.” It says that in the Bible. He did not save some left over wrath and condemnation in a tupperware container in the back of the fridge, so a few thousand years in the future He could use it on rebellious Americans.
That’s the faith- based answer, that’s the theology that totally dispels the lie that God is punishing us. That’s a lie, a particularly insidious one because it slanders the nature of God, it denies the work of the cross, and it exploits the gospel. That’s the righteous answer.
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The more human based answer, the less righteous one, the one based on simple logic and observation, assumes that God is 100 times more intelligent than we are and so He knows us better than we know ourselves.
Therefore He knows that we human beings did not just suddenly become rebellious, totally depraved, and make a wrong turn down Evil Lane. We did not just suddenly “de-evolve.” We have always been like this! That’s why we need a Savior in the first place. God is not like a Grand Cosmic Parent yelling every few years, “don’t you make me pull over this car!! “
Now, I totally believe in Divine discipline and how He can use any situation to train and mold us, to help us grow. “Discipline” comes from the same root as “disciple” which means “to teach.” Absolutely, He can work anything for our good, use any experience to teach us things, to correct us, to bring us closer to Him.
That’s quite a bit different then the concept of punishment for the purpose of control, revenge, or manipulation. “Repent or God will punish us with a terrible disease,” is actually abuse, a form of manipulation and control, a concept that denies and disrespects the genuine power of God. If He really wants something from us, He doesn’t have to bully, wheedle, manipulate, or beg us. He’d can just drop a house on our head, or give us a road to Damascus moment, or turn us into a pillar of salt. Pick us up and carry us out like one would a two year old having a fit.
But the ultimate reason why God would not send something like a global pandemic or a deadly disease to punish us, is because humans are entirely too stupid and self destructive to be corrected in that way. Totally unteachable. God is not a god of complete futility, of wasted effort, of failed attempts. Not! Perish the thought. He is victorious in everything He does. Always.
People are running about on the internet saying things like, “repent and God will lift this curse off of us!” Dumb, totally dumb.
God doesn’t use a simple game of punishments and rewards to control or influence our behavior in that kind of context. He uses the nature of Himself, He uses Jesus, He uses His grace, His mercy, His infinite love for us. He invites us into a relationship with Him and the influence of His love, the wonder of His presence begins to change and transform us.
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So my official answer as to why God is NOT punishing us is because He is wise and knows we are simply too dumb to learn from such things. If a global flood, the bubonic plague, war, pestilence, wandering around for 40 years in our own personal deserts, and the reality of our own death for thousands of years is not enough to cure us, than it might just mean, we actually need Jesus instead.
God is victorious in everything He does. Punishing us in this kind of a context is an exercise in futility and therefore unworthy of His time and effort. He only disciplines those He loves, and love is a personal investment.
See, there's this thing called biology... 
Amen, and Amen!
Could not agree with you more.
God is not the originator of evil.
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Amen! Thanks for the agreement. 🙂
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I don’t know if my blog is one you are referring to. I hope not, since I never used the word “punish,” and I did not say that God sent the virus. I did say that He has allowed it (He IS in control, after all), and that He ways of getting our attention and the world’s attention. As C.S. Lewis has said, He whispers to us in our pleasures but shouts at us in our pain.
What makes the Christian different from the world is that we have true peace, not the absence of trouble (This IS a fallen world.), but peace in the midst of trouble. While the rest of the world is in a panic and possibly coming to terms with their own mortality for the first time, we have a golden opportunity to share the gospel with people who until now have been content in their comfortable slide towards hell. I just heard about an incredible opportunity that has opened up:
One of my favorite ministries is the “JESUS” Film Project, which takes the gospel in video form into remote areas of the world, often where the people are illiterate. Their teams would go to a village, set up their equipment, and show the people the gospel in their own language. (This film has been translated into more languages than any other in history – approaching 1000 languages!) Often every person in the village would respond to the altar call at the end. Of course, with all the lockdown, they can’t do it, so we’ve been praying for other ways. I just found out that “JESUS” is going to be aired on TV in SEVENTY-TWO COUNTRIES on Easter! These include countries that have been very hostile to Christianity. Millions, possibly BILLIONS of people will hear the gospel in their own language, many for the first time.
This isn’t God’s punishing the evil, it’s His hand reaching out to save them.
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Nope, I wasn’t talking about you. Ha! I should totally name the pastors and elders and leave a clear link so nobody wonders if maybe I’m referring to them! Alas, I just can’t do that, except perhaps to a couple of very well known and publicly prolific ones. But the little guys who are just plain wrong? Nah, I’m not really intending to try to shame them, so I just left them kind of anonymous and vague. 🙂
I absolutely believe God works all things for good and He’ll work this mess for good, too. That doesn’t mean He caused it though, and that can be a sticky wicket for some people to understand. God is sovereign over all things, but He isn’t the author of death, disease, and evil.
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The key to this is the “fallen world” you mentioned. This and a million other diseases and imperfections are now built in to a world ruined by Adam’s disobedience. The most important effect, separation from God, was dealt with at the cross; Jesus as the second Adam. But everything – and I mean everything – is now subject to death. Genetically we are accumulating mistake upon mistake and this new mutation and the ability to jump from animal to human is yet another witness that, the heavens and the earth that now exist need to be, and will be, remade in God’s timing.
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I’m of two minds and both are correct.
GRACE is the operative word in this age in which we dwell- has been so since the central figure on Golgotha’s hill is neither there nor buried.
While God is not meting out punishment today,
We do know that His goodness leads to repentance, and it’s really not a bad idea to agree with Him, since repentance in a nutshell is recognizing God’s assessment of us? no easy task mind you.
As to the Wuhan/ American connection with the lab work, there is waaaay too much blame to go around, and rest assured, zillions of dollars is the main player.
But yes ma’am, we are too stupid to accept the crisis that we have invented, and God, as always, is blameless/ He is perfect and error free.
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Amen, Colorstorm. I’m sure you’ve seen us, people in general I mean, make a series of really bad decisions, and then while standing in the mess of our own choices promptly complained, “obviously God is just punishing us!” Perhaps. Maybe? Or you could just be moron? My money is on human moronitude. That one is usually a sure thing. 🙂
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So much here depends on definitions. Yes, God is holy. Yes, Man sinned, yes, we live in a fallen world. Punishment, or consequences? Definitely consequences, but consequences in an order that GOD set up. Hmm …
Jesus died to pay for our sins and pave the way for our salvation, but not everyone is saved. Repentance precedes salvation. (We need to see that we have something to be saved FROM.) This is what’s missing in so many “seeker-friendly” churches that just say “Come to Jesus and He’ll make your life wonderful. You are a child of the King, you have the authority, …” blahblahblah, and people think that because of grace they can live however they want. But Jesus said “If you love Me, you will obey Me.” On the flip side of that is the message that we are all condemned, horrible people – which we would be without Christ, but we AREN’T without Christ.
On the one hand, we are utterly dependent upon Him, and on the other, He is utterly dependable. 😉
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So much, indeed, depends on definitions. And the definition of repentance is much misunderstood.
Repentance is primarily a turning away from trusting other gods so He can give us the gift of effectual faith. It is a deliberate abandonment of our own ideas as being worthless in comparison to His, whatever that looks like.
If we perceive repentance to be all the details and life changes that come about that so often accompany salvation, we get it wrong in my opinion. Those are only manifestations of the power of the one true God taking up residence in us.
Repentance is not a turning away from bad deeds; it is a turning away from whatever is keeping us from the one and only true God revealed in scripture, at any age and in any circumstance.
I often dislike it when I hear someone say; “This person has such a powerful testimony you have to listen to it!”. And what follows is a list of horrible sins turned from; touted as repentance. No! That is the prodigal son, and it happens. What is equally as powerful is the child who decides to love God beginning at age 6 at Bible camp and never looks back. But these people often grow up thinking their testimony is not as good as some others.
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Haha, I had one of those “uninteresting” testimonies. But my life today is anything but boring. Repentance, to me, is turning from whatever else has taken the place of God and turning to Him so He will give me the ABILITY to obey Him. I think of repentance (as a saved person) in the voice of my GPS: “Turn around when possible.” (And Jesus makes it possible! 😉 )
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I have a so-called “interesting” testimony. But the most interesting thing, now that I have the benefit of many years in between is that both my son and my daughter, who have 4 children each now, have so-called “boring” ones. Thank God for boring testimonies!!!
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IB
From everything I have read and I perceive, this is all the direct result of human activity. I agree with you wholeheartedly that this is not how God operates, Though I can’t pretend to know or comprehend what God’s will is in its entirety. I believe I am under His care and protection through redemption and atonement. This whole episode/chapter is an opportunity to draw closer to Him in reflection and contemplation
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Amen. I don’t pretend to understand it all, but I do know there is some mystery and wonder in His design that we have just barely begun to understand. Sometimes viruses can kill us, but they can also give us immunities, even immunities to some things like cancers. We tend to perceive all germs as evil, as the enemy, but of course today we also know there are good germs, bacteria our bodies desperately need.
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I think I may have already been exposed and my immune system 💪🏼 fought it off. I may have been contagious for a time which is scary but I place myself at His disposal 🙏🏼
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I’m going to suggest the human activity that causes the most problems is nature worship and vanity instead of understanding who we are and where we come from. Nature is beautiful in many respects and still carries the unmistakable imprint of a perfect God in creation. But it is not God, and we are not gods that we can manipulate and shape things the way we want. Every once in awhile we are witnessed to that our vanity only leads to a false sense of security.
Thankfully, this is not our home.
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I revere the rhythm, violence and beauty of nature. It’s unfathomable in many respects as is God whom I know as unknowable to the human mind and comprehension
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Sorry, I can’t agree. He can be known; He must be known. Just not exhaustively.
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We’re getting into words and concepts which are only pointing towards what I am trying to convey- “we know by “unknowing “ beyond all knowing or unknowing “ Thomas Merton
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Very well stated. I was just telling a friend I love the way you write.
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Thank you for reading and for your kind words. 😊
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In light of your statement that God punishes those whom He loves and love is a personal investment, where does John 3:16 fit in the scope of your statement?
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Well, I guess I would say there’s a huge difference between punishment and discipline. John 3:17 really sums it up. Jesus made a tremendous investment in us. Just as we wouldn’t send an illness to punish our kids, He wouldn’t either.
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The Bible says God is slow to anger that doesn’t mean He never get there, while He’s being slow to anger He is giving mankind an opportunity to repent.
(See Isiah 26: 21)
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Its sad and frustrating to me that we can read Isaiah 26, and not hear about the Rock of Ages, His perfect peace, how we can trust in the goodness of the Lord. Instead we can only see wrath and punishment? The chapter even begins with a song, glad tidings, good news. Isaiah 26:12 tells us, “LORD, You will establish peace for us, for You have also done all our work for us.”
The Bible also tell us, “There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.” And it says, “There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.”
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The scriptures teach nothing about Rock of Ages, that is a song that came about in the 20th century.I think its sad that a great majority of “Christians” are living their lives void of the confines of the scriptures. Yes, God is a God of love, but He is also a God of justice, protocol and order. He is the same God as He was in the old testament. The scripture says, He the same yesterday, today and forever (Hebrews 13:18).God still requires now what He required then, but thank God Jesus is the fulfillment of the law. But, that does not excuse us from living a life of sanctification and service unto God. God still expects us to live according to His Word. However, simply living by the Word void a relationship with Jesus is futile which is what many “Christians” do today.
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“Rock of Ages” came out somewhere in the 1700’s and is based on Isaiah 26:4. “Trust in the Lord forever, for the Lord is a rock for all ages.” Some versions say “everlasting strength,”or “mighty rock.” My point however, was simply that Isaiah 26 is full of good news and joy, a song even! It’s really not about God holding us in condemnation or punishing us.
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Are we talking about God’s judgement or are we talking about condemnation? That’s comparing apples to oranges (two different things). God does releases judgement you can find examples all throughout the Bible Exodus 7, 2 Samuel 24:10-17. This is not an exhaustive list this is just to name a couple. Now, if we are talking about condemnation, you’re right God does not hold us in condemnation. There is a difference between being convicted and being in condemnation. The Holy Spirit convicts ( to bring us to repentance), the devil condemns (He’s the accuser of the brethren). The scripture says, there is therefore no more condemnation to those who are in Christ. We should not be in condemnation, but we should be convicted.
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IB, please tell us how you really feel about this…. 😛
I think the answer is to throw some virgins into the volcano, then He won’t burn our villages anymore (or we could just stop eating bats and spreading deadly viruses….)
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Well, I did suggest we throw John MacArthur in a volcano. Notice how he told Beth Moore to “go home” and ever since then we’ve ALL been stuck at home? Coincidence or not, I say we just toss him in a volcano and see what happens.😁
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Lol! Ahhh…so that’s why this happened…😷
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“No wonder non believers so often have a really negative perception of God! This is slanderous, it is libel, it is bearing false witness as to who God is, His nature, and what His intentions towards us are.”
You are so right IB, this sort of stuff including the congregations who refuse to stay out of the churches makes non-believers cringe and immediately call them all a bunch of nut jobs.
Like I gave Becky an obvious tip, if Christianity wants to survive it should conform to society and pull their heads in. All religions put their faith in a god or deity to protect them and any disaster is God’s punishment for sin and when these claims have no substance and fall over the media can find no better story just as the virus reporting has shown so far.
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“any disaster is God’s punishment for sin ..”
I suspect that is human nature, that is guilt, fear, shame, and our need for control speaking. We people write that narrative ourselves. Even atheists do that, secularist do that. But that is so not Jesus, that is not the gospel, that is not the message of Christianity.
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God is righteous. This presents a problem for unrighteous sinners, that would be deserving of punishment with pandemics and everything else including the kitchen sink of punishments. We are wicked. We deserve punishment. It’s a tough pill to swallow.
However, the majesty of our King is that He is merciful. Slow to anger, abounding in compassion. You said that thinking of this pandemic as God punishment for sin “denies or disrespects the work of the Cross” but I would say it EXPLAINS why the Christ crucified was necessary. We should be punished, but the cross is where Jesus steps in and takes the punishment we deserve. God is righteous and merciful and we error when we don’t divide this issue carefully.
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Okay, let me try to respond to all that. The idea that we deserve punishment is not a tough pill at all to swallow, at least not for me. I have little use for people in general whether they are cutting me off in traffic, being totally self absorbed, or actively out promoting evil. I am not the least bit surprised by the total depravity of people.
That said however, we are not what we appear, we are not what I think of us, we are who God says we are. He said we are worth saving. He said we are worthy of the tremendous investment He has made in us. He laid down His very life to save us. In light of that truth it actually a sin, a dishonoring of His sacrifice and investment in us, to contradict Him, to perceive ourselves as wretched sinners worthy of punishment.
The Bible tells us, “For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.” That is who we are! There is no trying to walk in in two worlds, attempting to embrace two separate identities at the same time. Who are you, a wretched sinner or the righteousness of Christ? My Bible says I am the righteousness of Jesus Christ.
God is not punishing us. Jesus has already paid the price for our sins. It is actually a legal double jeopardy to punish people twice for the same crime. That would be unethical. God is just and Holy. Therefore when He said “it is finished,” He meant it. To perceive ourselves as awaiting punishment is to dismiss the work of the cross, to disagree with what God has said.
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The work of salvation was finished on the cross, but you can’t apply that statement “it is finished” to the fall out of a sinful corrupted world. The thorns remind us of our sin…still. I wholeheartedly agree that Christ provides redemption and that should always be the centerpiece of our Christian blogging and conversations.
I don’t think this pandemic is specific punishment that would have been prevented had people not shared Netflix accounts or stopped jay walking or Gone to church 90% of the time instead of 50%. It’s a fallen world. We can’t be good enough to save ourselves, we are guilty sinners. We need Jesus to save us. By faith we are saved.
I think “our worthiness” is greatly different than you perceive. God giving Jesus isn’t about what we are, but how much He values us. I am a sinner, but I am valued by God. This is different than me pretending that I am worthy of the gift. I am greatly loved by God, but totally unworthy. Hence God is awesome.
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“There is none worthy, not one,” it says that in the Bible, too. I agree, we aren’t worthy. The thing is, God values us. He gave His life for us. That means that instead of wallowing in punishment memes, we should be going forth in the world as the righteousness of Christ. If God says we have value, if He says we were worth dying for, then perceiving ourselves as wretched sinners who deserve punishment is contradicting His opinion of us.
You said, “by faith we are saved,” which is true, but if we truly believe it and walk in it, then we are walking as saved and redeemed people, not as wretched sinners awaiting God’s wrath, punishment, and judgement.
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I’m a wretched sinner saved by grace. The righteousness that I get credit for only comes from Christ. I don’t bring any goodness to the table, only filthy rags. No amount of belief changes my nature or inclination to sin. I am a wretched sinner, but instantly the Christian remembers and clings to the work of Christ. This is our faith.
Wallowing in despair is not a necessity when recognizing that we are sinners, rather our dependence/desperation drives us into the goodness of God.
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Sadly, this is one article I would need my dear Sister in Christ to clarify. God’s Character nor His Word changes. God’s CHILDREN, those born-again and renewed of spirit will NOT suffer God’s wrath because they ARE His children and He only disciplines (not punishes) His children in the day and age of Grace we now live in.
However — when it comes to the world and especially a nation or a people who “live” under the banner of “In God We Trust” and they go against the things, the Godly values and principles, that have prospered and blessed them as a nation, it is only arrogance that makes one assume that God will not judge them. If He judged (and still does) His own chosen nation of people, how can we who believe God is JUST, HOLY and PURE in righteousness believe He could do otherwise.
Salvation was secured at the Cross with the spilling of Christ Jesus’ Blood for all mankind. That does not mean all mankind is saved for it is a gift that was given, but if you refuse to accept that gift AND abide in it, then you have left that gift right where it was given, at the Cross. Redemption is assured because of Christ’s ressurection, a time we are preparing to honor even now, but even redemption is in the hope to come. We will be truly redeemed when Jesus comes back to gather us home. The whole world will not be a part of that.
If God judged the world at the time of Noah, and the Egyptians at the time of Moses and His own children the Israelites as a Nation, (He still counted righteousness as an individual act of faith) then knowing full well He has not changed His Character or His Word, tells me that He will (whether this is part of it now or not) judge the Nations and it’s peoples who claim to be His, yet act like they belong to the devil. Abortion, Homosexuality, prostitution, gamblings, murders etc., etc., all in the name of “progressive” laws and evolvement of human nature is NOT an advancement in human nature but a step back into rebellion against God.
Out of judgement most times, comes revival and repentance in people who abandoned God’s precepts. There are still ALWAYS those who choose to reject His Word(s) to their own voluntary demise. God will NOT force people to choose whom they will serve, but He WILL give them the opportunity to make their own decision.
God does punish or judge. But He doesn’t punish or judge those who are already His. Christ Jesus on the Cross saw to that, but we have to be abiding in that to be His children. The world will STILL be judged for its actions and its choices. It WILL lead to repentence for some, and for others it will just cause them to harden their hearts all the more as in the case of the Egyptian Pharoah.
Part of our calling, as those who speak and teach God’s Word with all seriousness and humility is to warn people, God’s people and the people of the world what is on the heart and mind of God Himself. We can only do that by abiding in and allowing the Holy Spirit to abide in us, by seeking an intimate, as opposed to a casual, relationship with God, our Heavenly Father. His Spirit will thus lead us into all truth and remind us of ALL the Words He has spoken and what He wants to say.
God is NOT punishing US, if you mean, His TRUE, born-again, spiritually renewed children. However, there are a lot of people going to church, condoning sinful behavior that the Word of God opposes and THEY say, they are Christians, followers of Christ and thus children of God. Only God knows truly if they are or not, we can only know if they are false teachers and prophets or wolves in sheep’s clothing. However, if they continue to CLAIM they are God’s children and continue to live in rebellion opposed to the facts in the Word of God, then they WILL be punished and judged, by God for claiming to be something they are not!
The chapter in Matthew that everyone loves to quote concerning judging others says this; “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ “And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ – Matthew 7:21-23.
This indicates a people who use Jesus’ name, but who do NOT have an intimate relationship with Him (nor authority from Him) for He doesn’t even KNOW them. They say they are Christians, but they still practice unrighteousness as a rule! I can tell you right now, I know a couple of lawyers by name, but that doesn’t give me the right nor authority to try and practice law in their names or in the name of their Law firm! I would be thrown in jail if I tried that!
We need to encourage one another in the unfailing love and graciousness of the Lord during a time like this. But we also need to make sure that those who are NOT Christians know that there is a WAY that was made for them for eternity and not just for this temporary time. Jesus Christ is the only answer and the only WAY to escape the Father’s wrath and judgement that WILL eventually come, if it hasn’t not started now. I am not saying this is a judgement from God, but I am saying that as a NATION, this country which was blessed by God and has turned their back on God and His ways is long, long overdue for some action from Him.
If I misjudged the article; forgive me. My only motive is to make sure that when we speak in the Name of the Lord, it is based wholly on the Whole Bible and the Whole Character of God and not just parts. God bless. I am a follower of both God’s Man Forever and Insanity Bytes on WordPress and will continue to do so. Be prayerful when reading this article and be like the Bereans who studied the Words of Paul and Silas to make sure they were in line with the Word of God.
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Thank you for your detailed comment, it is a good one. I am so sorry I had to go fish it out of the internet, but it wound up in spam and needed to be rescued.
I really believe that Jesus came on a rescue mission, that the Father’s justice is restorative and redemptive, not punitive and vengeful. “Judgement,” as we see in the Book of judges, and in ancient Jewish culture, was about bringing justice to a group of people who were being treated unjustly, like the Egyptian slaves. The persistent widow and the mother in Solomon’s tale are seeking a favorable judgement, justice, a ruling in their favor.
Judgement is not really about condemnation at all.
When we post things like, “the coronavirus is God’s punishment on America for abortion,” we not only misrepresent and slander the true character and nature of God, we do harm to the gospel, we disrespect the finished work of the cross, and rather than bringing people to repentance, we simply trigger more rebellion.
Do you want to enter into a relationship with a Jesus who allegedly threatens to kill your grandparents and vulnerable members of your family because there is still sin in the world? Political policies He doesn’t like? Is God evil, a murderer inflicting disease, death on innocent people because He is mad about something?
Do we even listen to the words that come out of our mouths and how awful they sound, how they misrepresent everything God died for?
God is not the author of evil. He is not the one doling out death and disease on His naughty children. It saddens me that this is even controversial, that I so often must stand outside the Christian circle to proclaim it.
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I couldn’t agree with a post more. Quite honestly, the beginning made me chuckle 🤣. More often than not I see the doom preaching articles you referred to. Knowing that there are others that recognize that God is love, and doesn’t “take out his anger” on us when we sin is refreshing. I often refer to James 1:13! “When under trial, let no one say: “I am being tried by God.” For with evil things God cannot be tried, nor does he himself try anyone.” I wanted to share a nice video with you I thought you’d really enjoy! Wonderful article!
https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/good-news-from-god/why-god-allows-evil-and-suffering/video-why-suffering/
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