Tags
atheism, blogging, date night, good and evil, hell, insanitybytes2, sci/fi
Photo by Brett Sayles on Pexels.com
Hubby and I had a lovely date night watching Star Trek movies. Cheesy I know, but it was fun and pleasant. Also very considerate, because I am a much bigger fan of Star Trek than he is and I just adore Benedict Cumberbatch. Which brings me to, “Star Trek, Into Darkness,” 2013.
Spoiler alert here, but Benedict plays Khan, the bad guy, genetically engineered, superior superhuman, ruthless, somewhat evil. I say, “somewhat evil” because how are we defining “evil?” By what standard? I mean, an argument could be made that he is simply interested in self preservation and the preservation of his own kind, and eventually universal domination to, “go where no man has gone before,” and to rid the universe of inferior vermin. Unfortunately that vermin would be us.
For the record, for our purposes today, he is clearly the “bad guy,” he and 72 others just like him, all cryogenically frozen in suspended animation. War criminals, dangerous, guilty of atrocities, kept frozen for safety’s sake.
Which brings me to the concept of hell within our faith and to a moral dilemma you often encounter in sci/fi, so what do you do with the bad guys? I mean, you fight them, you blow them up, and you annihilate them. That’s where all the action is! But what do you do with them really, for the long term? You must be careful because if you resort to their same tactics, you just become the very evil you are fighting against.
This is simply a lesson in imagination, an exploration and discussion about the concept of hell. I am content, I am certain hell is not my destination, so I am not concerned about it. Others however, really struggle, and many atheists use it as an excuse for not believing in God. They are not going to follow a God who allegedly tortures people for all of eternity. I totally get that, I empathize. However, I’m going to just say, that’s actually a silly excuse, on account of the fact that many early Christians didn’t really believe in our modern Western versions of hell, some Christians today are universalists, and a great deal of our false imagery is based on “Dante’s Inferno” and not the Bible, anyway.
So we are all without excuse. The Bible doesn’t say you must reject dinosaurs, declare the truth about hell as portrayed in medieval paintings, and give up wearing yoga pants. Those are all man made cultural assumptions.
My point however is still, so what do you do with the bad guys? You get to be the little creator, the sci fi author, the story teller in complete charge of the entire universe. How do you deal with evil? It’s a seriously challenging question from a moral perspective and rather complex. You can’t personally torture evil for all of eternity or you become a torturer, an evil yourself. You can’t just kill all the bad guys, especially as in Khan’s case because this is an entire species. We cannot simply commit genocide without becoming genocidal.
In Star Trek, the only civilized way to deal with this evil is to cryogenically freeze them and put them in storage, therefore eliminating the threat or at least postponing it to some future generation of people who have the misfortune of receiving the fruits of that thaw.
Photo by Pixabay on Pexels.com
I just found it to be a fascinating dilemma, a good moral conundrum. For me, I finally came to the conclusion that I simply lacked the wherewithal to deal with evil in a Holy, just, or Godly manner. I don’t know what to do about it. I am unable to adequately control all the variables.
Well, if I don’t know, then I can’t very well complain that God is doing it all wrong.
See, there's this thing called biology... 
That’s my favorite Star Trek film! I think that it raises a lot of questions about our own humanity, namely revenge.
As an aside, I found it interesting that he had 72 followers cryogencially stored. 72 represents 1 arc year along the eliptic, but also shows up in many religions, too:
In Judaism God has 72 different name
Confucius was said to have 72 disciples who fully mastered his teachings
In the gospel of Luke, Jesus sent out 72 disciples
King Solomon sealed away 72 demons with The Lesser Key of Solomon
Each Muslim martyr is said to receive 72 houri
The Egyptian god Osiris was sealed in a coffin by 72 evil disciples of Set
Looks like the writers didn’t pick that number randomly.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Very cool about the number 72, Rob. I knew it had some kind of meaning in the story. The significance of numbers always fascinates me. We used to play the 11:11 game, the number of the angels. Just focus on that number and soon it starts showing up in your life everywhere, on your receipt at the store, on the clock right when you look up. Every time you see it, it just means you’re in the presence of angels, it’s a reminder that you’re in good hands. Later in life I found some people using that game in a nefarious way and I got mad at them. Leave my angel game alone. 🙂
LikeLiked by 2 people
“You must be careful because if you resort to their same tactics, you just become the very evil you are fighting against.”
The evil is not in the tactics, the evil is in the moral context, the purpose and strategic plan behind the tactics. If a bully punches you in the face, and you punch him back in the face thrice as hard, are you thrice as evil as the bully? Heck no, baby. You used the same tactic but with the opposite moral purpose to his. If the bully learns his lesson and stops punching people in the face for no reason, then there’s no reason to keep punching him in the face. All that in context is what makes the bully evil and the victim who refuses to be a victim good.
I saw Star Trek:Into Darkness, and I would have destroyed Khan and his mutatious minions without any regret, because they are incorrigibly evil and utterly reprobate. Their commitment to their offensive cause was too great, and that makes them too dangerous to be allowed to run around loose all over the galaxy ever again. I would annihilate them because of the prospective threat, not out of any desire for revenge or retribution.
And what do we see God do with evil? He lets it play itself out, then when it refuses to confess and repent He locks it up in hell where it cannot hurt anybody ever again, so that He and those who love Him can get on with the joys of eternity.
LikeLiked by 3 people
Remember the scene where Kirk tries to beat up Khan but he can’t really hurt him because he’s genetically superior? He just winds up hurting himself. That’s another dilemma, one we sometimes face with things like hatred and anger. They become poisons that hurt us far more than anyone else.
I think I probably would have destroyed Khan and his people, too. It seemed really creepy to freeze them and risk inflicting them on people in the future. I like what you said about God locking evil up in hell where it can’t hurt anybody ever again.
LikeLiked by 1 person
“God locking evil up in hell where it can’t hurt anybody ever again.”
I find the question of why God chooses to segregate the wicked rather than make them change by force to be very interesting. It seems like God values the freedom to exercise our own free will and even Lucifer’s free will more highly than He values doing and being good in and of itself. I ask atheists and other God-haters how it is they can fault God for giving them what they say they want, and they never seem to have an intelligent and coherent answer. When I get a chance and when it seems not too socially inappropriate, I ask, I mean.
I think the question boils down to, what exactly do we think love is, anyway? Without knowledge and without free choice, love can’t exist, I think. Or, I could be wrong; let whosoever will change my mind.
LikeLiked by 2 people
I’m fascinated by that idea, too. God could easily just force the wicked to change and yet He doesn’t. In the book of Job we see God even allowing satan his autonomy within certain limitations, like saying you can’t kill Job. God does restore everything to Job eventually, but first He allows satan pretty much free reign. Love does require freewill and the freedom to choose, but also a desire to love what someone else loves. I don’t believe God wants us to follow Him because we fear hell, but rather to follow him because we love His ways.
LikeLiked by 1 person
“I don’t believe God wants us to follow Him because we fear hell, but rather to follow him because we love His ways.”
The fear of the Lord is only the beginning of wisdom, not the end all and be all of it. Perfect love casts out fear, even the fear of hell. The better we know the Lord the more aware we are of His love for us.
Romans 8:
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
I love this passage of verses, and I love the word “hyperconquerors.” It only shows up once in Scripture, but the word “nikao”
is part of the root of the word “Nicolaitans” in Revelation.
Hupernikao (hoop-er-nik-ah’-o);
Word Origin: Greek, Verb, Strong #: 5245
to be more than a conqueror, to gain a surpassing victory
KJV Word Usage and Count
be more than conqueror 1
Nikolaites (nik-ol-ah-ee’-tace);
Word Origin: Greek, Noun Masculine, Strong #: 3531
Nicolaitans = “destruction of people”
a sect mentioned in Rev. 2:6,15, who were charged with holding the error of Balaam, casting a stumbling block before the church of God by upholding the liberty of eating things sacrificed to idols as well as committing fornication
Rather than “destruction,” I think the Nicolaitans were bad because they were “conquerors” of the people.
LikeLiked by 2 people
I think I’m in complete agreement with you. Sometimes when we of the West, read the Bible we forget it is often through the eyes of the oppressed, the conquered, be it Pharoah’s world or the Roman empire. We are people awaiting justice for example, awaiting judgement, not in a bad way, like we are being charged with a crime, but as in a rescue is coming, a redress of our grievances, a bail out. A conquered people is an enslaved people but He came to set the captives free. I hate to use the word “privileged,” but I think a lot of universalists, a lot of more liberal leaning people, are very privileged. They don’t understand what it is like to live under Nineveh, for example. Jonah is not just being rebellious and defiant, He’s got some legitimate gripes, grievances.
LikeLiked by 1 person
One of the best books to address the question of hell is “The Great Divorce” by C.S. Lewis. I have reminded people before that the highest joy of eternal life in God’s new creation (aka heaven) is to dwell in the full presence of God. We will walk with Jesus. Anyone who hates God and wants no fellowship with the Lord would be more miserable in heaven than in hell. God did not create hell to punish human sinners; Jesus calls it “the fire prepared for the devil and his angels.” But there is no other place to send people who would be unhappy spending eternity with Jesus. J.
LikeLiked by 3 people
I hear you, Salvageable. To be in the presence of the Lord I think, is even hard for us who love Him. I think that’s why we tend to only catch a glimpse of Him in the Bible, the hem of His robes. Moses is the only one who can see His fire, it’s just too bright for the others. Jesus bridges that gap for us, it all works out in the end, but imagine how unpleasant it would be to be in that much Light if you were evil.
There are some branches of orthodoxy I think, that do believe heaven and hell are the same place, just totally different experiences of being in God’s presence. I’m not sure I believe that, but I thought it was an interesting perspective.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Jesus also spoke of the outer darkness. Since he frequently compared the new creation to a wedding celebration, I’m picturing a well-lit banquet hall with food and drink and music and dancing and laughter… and the people who never really liked the bridegroom are locked out, standing in the parking lot, with nowhere to go and nothing to do. J.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I’m sort of a nihilistic atheist myself. I don’t believe in either heaven or hell.
LikeLiked by 1 person
LOL! Ahh, well at least you’re consistent. 🙂
LikeLike
“The Bible doesn’t say you must reject dinosaurs, declare the truth about hell as portrayed in medieval paintings, and give up wearing yoga pants. Those are all man made cultural assumptions.”
Really??? Here I thought this is what it means to defend the faith. Now what am I going to be against? 🙂
Seriously, it’s amazing what depths of irrelevance that people will stoop to in order to reject God’s love for them. Any excuse will do! I agree with Salvageable on C.S. Lewis’s depiction of hell in the Great Divorce. “The gates of hell are locked from the inside.”
But whatever hell actually is, we certainly don’t begin to understand it (even though we may think we do).
LikeLiked by 2 people
LOL! Good word, Mel. I think there’s a lot of that extra Biblical stuff floating around, cultural and political Christianity trying to assert it’s little truths that aren’t really truths at all, but just human preferences. That’s not necessarily bad, I just think that sometimes the hardest thing for people is all the unlearning that needs to happen. I had a child in Sunday school once with a stuffed dinosaur, who promptly announced she couldn’t follow Jesus anymore because she liked dinosaurs. It was pretty funny, but kind of tragic too, because I knew exactly where that kind of mindset came from.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Something to think about, but not argue about.
** The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. (1 Corinthians 15:26 – destroyed, not defeated)
** And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. (Rev 20-14)
Sheol –> Hades –> Hell – where the dead people are – the grave. So – death and the grave were cast.
** And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. (Rev 20:15)
Adam and Eve and their descendents were condemned to die, which was the first death. But they and their descendents were promised that there would be a resurrection. No such resurrection has been promised for the second death.
If the final enemy to be destroyed is death (destroyed, not defeated), and if death and the grave are destroyed by throwing them into the lake of fire (the second death, from which no resurrection is promised), what do we suppose is going to happen to those rejected at the Judgement Seat when they are cast into that same lake of fire?
If death is destroyed by the lake of fire, then – whatever you think hell is – it is going to be destroyed when death is destroyed.
As stated upthread, God wants a people around him who want to be there – because they want to be with God, not because they are afraid of hell. If this is true, if God’s focus is on the folks who are around him because they want to be there, what does God care about the folks who didn’t want to be around him. He sent them away from the Judgement Seat, to be thrown into the lake of fire. That place where death and hell (the grave) are thrown into. Death, that final thing to be destroyed – by throwing it into the lake fire? If not by throwing it into the lake of fire, then where in the Bible is death destroyed, where is that destruction recorded in the Bible. And if the lake of fire (the second death) does not destroy death, what is the point of throwing it and the grave into the lake of fire? So it can be retrieved later and then destroyed?
LikeLiked by 1 person
Good points! Thank you for that comment.
LikeLike
Wow you guys watch star trek for date night? I need to suggest that to my wife, lol
LikeLiked by 1 person