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We’ve been talking a bit about Divine will, God’s will, God’s sovereignty, how and why does He allow bad things to happen, and I stumbled upon this timely post called, (surprise!) “Divine Will.”
You should click to read it, it was nicely done and well said. The whole subject of God’s will is huge and there is always going to be some mystery there because it is a subject matter too big for our brains to fully hold.
I really like what this guy said about how, “God works through the imperfect choices of His children to bring about His perfect will.” God meets us right where we are at. No matter what choices we’ve made that we may think are wrong, we just aren’t powerful enough to wreck His plan for our life or to thwart the good He wishes to accomplish.
I think it’s also very hard to give a pat answer or a theological explanation for Divine will because we are individuals and our struggles are generally specific to us and they are often matters of the heart. Why did a child have to die? Why is some evil allowed to flourish? Those are painful emotional questions that just can’t be addressed intellectually because the pain of that “why” doesn’t come from between our ears, it comes from somewhere deep in our souls.
I like how this guy made the analogy about training a horse. For me, most of my Bad Things That Happen have been much like that, things that have taught me how to draw closer to God, to follow His lead, to turn to Him. If the analogy of a horse bothers you, be a warrior or a ninja. I sometimes fancy myself as an athlete or a warrior, a spiritual ninja, or perhaps even the main player in a video game. If I hadn’t been through the first 10 levels of Life Stuff, I would never have had the spiritual maturity to handle the next avalanche coming my way. Sometimes God can sure level up the game.
My “game” by the way, is going pretty well right now, and joy does come in the morning. It is just that I do know the pain and frustration of that, “Why God, why?” He has an answer to that question, but it is always going to be one specially tailored to fit you and your needs and circumstances.
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See, there's this thing called biology... 
“God works through the imperfect choices of His children to bring about His perfect will.”
What’s the difference in this vs saying “whatever happens is God’s will”?
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There are miles of difference between those two perceptions, one being that “whatever happens is God’s will” is often fatalistic and forgets about not only human freewill in the equation, but also personal accountability. When we humans speak of “God’s will” or “acts of God,” we are generally referring only to the bad things. An “act of God” is used to describe a flood that destroys a house and not someone’s supernatural ability to forgive and bless their enemies.
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So are you limiting the “His children” to just the imperfect actions and choices of Christians?
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Does a human child ever cease being their parent’s offspring?
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So the answer is no.
Then are there limitations on what you’d describe as “imperfect” choices or actions?
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Hey IB… I’m sorry to jump in but God forced me to respond. I tried to resist but God’s irresistible will forced me to write this… Whoops, I just had to backspace because I hit the wrong key. I guess that too was His perfect will for my life.
Hmmm…I brought chicken and rice for lunch. However, I was thinking about getting a burger. What do I do? I guess I will just have to pray and say, “Thy will be done.” Gee…I hope I have money because that burger sure sounds good.
All fun and games here till someone gets hurt. Does that mean I should delete my comments? Yes? No? PLEASE TELL ME WHAT TO DO! 🙂
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LOL! Ha! We can indeed, invite the Lord into any area of our life, no matter how small and discover His will, His wisdom. Or not!!. I have had the Holy Spirit clearly tell me, eat light, you’ll feel much better later on when you’re going to be running all over the place. And of course, I have completely ignored that gentle whisper, had a bacon cheeseburger anyway and then discovered I was indeed going to be running all over the place. Sure enough, I felt tired and miserable. 🙂
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Lol..Indeed He does speak if we will just listen. To illustrate, I was thinking about my comment and had the Holy Spirit conviction come upon me. He basically said, “Patrick, you were being messy. What did you accomplish by messing with “grabaspine?”
“Nothing, Lord…Absolutely nothing…Sorry.”
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I see you haven’t had time to answer my follow up question.
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Mike, if you truly want answers you will find them.
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My intent was that you would think thru what you had said, being honest enough to consider the consequences of what you said. I guess that’s beyond what you are willing to do. Nuff said. Have a great day
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Read Romans 8:28. Then consider the verse in context.
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Sorry Tom, that verse limits to “those who love God and are called according to his purposes”. I asked IB specifically if she was limiting just to Christians, and she specifically didn’t limit that way in her answer. Just being honest with what she actually answered vs how you were applying. Thx
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@grabaspine
I will happily let IB speak for herself, but she does not appear to be much interested in responding to your query.
So what about Romans 8:28? We are creatures. God created us for His purposes.
Have you ever devoted yourself to creating anything? Have you ever invested yourself in a child? What we create we love. That is especially true of our children. Still, if what we create does not serve our purposes we abandon it. If our children hate us, we separate ourselves from them. The pain is too great.
God created us to give Him glory, to return His love. Those who refuse to love Him do not serve His purposes. They refuse to be adopted as His children. Some even hate Him.
Does God only adopt Christians? Doubt it, but the Bible isn’t very specific about that. Why? Well, here is my guess. The Bible was written for people who would read it, believe it, and obey what it teaches. As a disciple of Jesus Christ, my job is to spread the Gospel. When someone refuses to believe the Word of God, I cannot make them believe, and it is not my job to judge anyone’s soul. I can only read the Bible, believe the Bible, and strive to obey what it teaches. God is God. I am not.
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Tom, the issue or question I had for IB had nothing at all to do with the context of Romans 8:28. Thx for trying to sidetrack though. Have a great day
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@grabaspine
Here is your original question.
To say that your question has nothing to do with Romans 8:28 is just absurd. It is a weak dodge (and yes I saw your silly post). This is why IB didn’t bother to answer your question. You are just engaging a sort of exhibitionism.
YOU had an argument with a Christian. YOU asked a Christian a question the Christian either could not answer (or did not bother to answer). Then you went to the safety of your blog and exposed them to ridicule. A coward looking for an ego trip at someone else’s expense.
One day you will die. Then you will discover what comes next, at least for you. What does not come next? None of us know. Even if the Bible is completely true, as I believe it is, none of us know. What I do know is that holding others up to ridicule is a damned waste of time. Even for an Atheist it has to be a damned waste of time. If that is how you get your kicks, what is the point in living at all?
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I keep hearing my GPS when I make a blunder: ” … Rerouting … “
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LOL! Absolutely. If you make a wrong turn it is a simple matter of “recalculating.” Just because you miss the right exit on the freeway doesn’t mean you now have to drive through the next six states. 🙂
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…although driving through the next six states might be pretty exciting… (said the woman who just spent two weeks with her sister, deciding where to take the RV next according to the atlas and the weather app … )
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Ha! Road trip! Sounds delightful. 🙂
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Ok.. so if there’s no “answer” as to the “why” of divine will.. then “why” believe in the first place?
Why does it seem that the answer to human questions regarding spirituality seems to point back at us humans… the idea that we can’t project human qualities onto Divinity, and that human logic, or reason, never applies because humans are by nature, imperfect, and we run amok sinning all over the place (in spite of the fact that we were created in His image… “image” having a subjective meaning, of course).
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There is often an answer to the “why” of Divine will in any given circumstance but you have to be willing to seek it. Some things we just can’t understand, not this side of heaven anyway, and some things are just too painful for us to understand, but for the most part there really is a rhyme, a reason, a wise purpose behind God’s will. The reason why we seek it out and seek Him out is to better get to know Him,to know His nature and His voice, and in the process to also better know ourselves.
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“Samuel was offended the people wanted a king to take care of them. God simply went with them as they sought comfort in a king, much as I went with Archie as he initially moved away from me when I tugged his tail.”
This really sums it up IB. This is such a pathetic excuse as to why the Christian God that loves all of us allows the rape of a child by a priest the mass school shootings or massive world wars. What a contrast, you can make up any kind of scenario you like to justify God’s inaction. This is just like random things happening, and maybe that’s exactly what it is, face the facts, his inaction is because he does not actually exist outside of theist brains.
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This was good stuff IB, thank you! The Divine Will post too was well worth the read. We can never fully understand why God does or doesn’t do things, there is too much going on behind the scenes that we just cannot see. Humans fail all the time resulting in bad things happening to good people.
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