Tags
deceptions, dysfunction, faith, grace, lies, opinion, redemption
I need to push back just a tiny bit here. I’ve recently had several conversations with people who say, “religion made me feel bad about myself.” Or “why would I want to live in perpetual guilt, shame, and condemnation?”
Let me tell you, if you’re living in perpetual shame, guilt, and condemnation, you’re in the wrong religion and you’ve missed the entire message of grace, the gospel, the good news.
And that happens too, that is real enough. There are some appalling things being preached in the name of Jesus Christ, some toxic people within the church as a whole, but that is actually few and far between. That is not the norm, and the reason why we are so often outraged about it is because we know it is not the norm, it is a perversion, a distortion.
Religion made me feel bad about myself. Does anybody ever say those words about their heroin addicted peer groups? Their dysfunctional parents? Their toxic family members?? Public schools? Their own poor choices? The enemy, the world at large? Like, my extremely dysfunctional toxic family of origin left me feeling bad about my self?
The enemy then went on to pick my bones, to take advantage of me by farther instilling feelings of unworthiness, shame, and confusion, in an attempt to separate me even more from the possibility of a healthy relationship with my Creator?
I’m a firm believer in, “nobody can make you feel bad about yourself without your permission.” That can be hard for people trying to escape toxic situations, abuse, and dysfunction. But it is still the truth and it begs some painful questions like, why did you give them permission? That question is so infused with grace and forgiveness, with understanding, but still it’s a question that people must address at some point.
Nothing in this world should ever “make you feel” anything. God doesn’t even do that to us, God gave us freewill. The Lord of the universe Himself grants us the autonomy to feel and believe as we choose. Then we allow mere humans to “make us,” think, feel, and believe certain things? I think not.
I suppose I am coming at this from a completely different perspective. I come from some really dark places, I spent most of my life hearing about how good people were and it darn near crushed me, because I couldn’t see any “good people.” Reality did not match the narrative. It created some cognitive dysfunction. That sounds terrible, but it is true. There wasn’t much goodness in my childhood, just an endless stream of broken people trying to take advantage of one another.
People are bloody mercenary, self-serving, and often downright evil. I just saw that truth validated over and over and over again. Still do today sometimes.
I have to laugh, because the idea that people are “not good” was a major revelation to me, a lanced infection, a healed wound, the solution to a riddle that had long baffled me. It was so healing and freeing. I grew up hearing endlessly about the goodness of humanity while bearing witness to the precise opposite, so I assumed it must just be me. It must be my fault, I must be the defective unit, my perceptions must be off.
I really did assume that all the chaos, toxicity, and dysfunction in my family was totally my fault, my problem, and I was the cause of it all. In part because people actually said that to me, but also because everyone was allegedly good and I knew I wasn’t good at all. So apparently I was the only one in the entire world who was actually “bad.”
It’s a very lonely place to be. On the other hand I developed a powerful relationship with Jesus Christ.
Whatever words you wish to give it, original sin, total depravity, damage, brokenness, wounding, discovering these things was the best day of my life. It was like a Jenga puzzle falling over, a stack of lies crashing to the floor. It is kind of amusing, but today I am a sin enthusiast. Like, praise the Lord, I am not alone in the world! It is not all my fault. I am normal. We are all just sinners who fall short. And right on the other side of sin is the most amazing grace, unmerited favor, forgiveness, mercy, inconceivable, unconditional, endless love….
I often have a desire to soften the gospel, to reach out to hurting people, to bring them past that wounding and right into the love and mercy of Jesus Christ. I don’t want anyone to feel bad, especially not in the arms of Jesus, and yet there is just no way to mercy, grace, redemption, without that recognition that we can’t do it all, that we aren’t just good people, that we just aren’t good enough to save ourselves.
And yes, that truth can sometimes feel bad, but if feels bad in the way childbirth feels bad, it is the new birth, it is what being born again is all about.
So as this little meme suggests, “before you can find the truth you have to recognize which lie is holding you hostage.”
iamcurmudgeon said:
Don’t meetings of Alcoholics Anonymous and similar groups start out with, “my name is…….and I’m an alcoholic”?
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insanitybytes22 said:
Yes, good point.
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sullivanspin said:
It is unfortunate, but many churches only preach law and self-improvement which deprives it’s hearers of the sweet, sweet Gospel.
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Robert Chamberlain said:
We have to feel bad about ourselves before the good news that Jesus saves is gospel. But once we get saved we don’t need to feel bad once we’ve repented again. People just want their egos to be massaged. They want to be flattered. And God is a God of truth, as well as love. Thanks for your helpful article. The last verse in James 1 explains that not all religion is bad…
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Salvageable said:
There is a place for genuine self-examination, repentance, realizing that we are not good enough for God and we desperately need his help. But, as you have frequently mentioned in the past few days, there is also the joy of salvation. On the one hand, God wants us to live lives of repentance. “Blessed are those who mourn.” But he wants repentance to lead us to the cross of Christ, where we leave all of our sins, all of our sorrows, all of our hurts, and all of our hates for him to remove. “Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted.” Those in the Church who cling to the mourning and refuse the comfort have missed the boat. J.
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Julie (aka Cookie) said:
Ok, stop right here—before I proceed reading I’m stopping in my tracks…”religion made me feel bad about myself”
I think we call that sin being involved in their someplace…as in conviction…
but I digress…I must get back to finishing reading past that first line or so. now…
be right back
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Julie (aka Cookie) said:
Ok, I’m back.
You’re right—Christianity is not about hair shirts or living atop a cliff in a desert while surviving on bugs…but the notion of the cliff in the desert has sounded most appealing from time to time I must confess.
But I do believe in being convicted / conflicted—whichever works…and then once the conviction /confliction is seen for what it is, we have the gift of confession and forgiveness—all summed up nice and neat in the word Grace!
So yep, good words again IB!!!!
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insanitybytes22 said:
LOL! I just watched a documentary about some Coptic Christian monks living atop a cliff in the desert. I think I now have cliff top envy.
But yes, conflicted/convicted is not always a bad thing, not when it simply means you aren’t living up to your own potential in Christ.
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Lisa V said:
Great post! I agree with you that are, unfortunately, a number of churches that don’t preach enough about grace and forgiveness. However, I think there is an increasing number of people saying that “religion made me feel bad,” not necessarily because they are from the “bad church” scenario. Rather, a lot of those people just don’t want to be accountable, and anything that might give cause for self-examination ends up going into this category. They haven’t experienced the real freedom in following Christ, and it’s just easier to put up a wall than to do the “work.” Following Christ can be “inconvenient” for an “anything goes” lifestyle. Hope that makes sense.
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sklyjd said:
“Following Christ can be “inconvenient” for an “anything goes” lifestyle.”
Not true in the slightest, most good atheists act exactly as good Christians or in fact better than some Christians in their lifestyle, the only difference is Christians spend half their life thanking and confessing to a God they believe exists in the supernatural that can grant them eternal life.
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Lisa V said:
Not sure why you seem so angry. I certainly wasn’t “attacking” atheists. Didn’t even mention them. I guess you assumed I meant by an “anything goes lifestyle” that I was referring to atheists. Not necessarily true. I don’t feel the need to “convert” you, not sure why you feel the need to “convert” me. You’re right that a lot of “god atheists act exactly as good Christians. I don’t think that was really part of the debate, if there even was a debate. Please don’t feel the need to impose your unbelief on me, and I will do in kind to you. I wish you the best in your endeavors. If you don’t believe in the subject matter of a post, then perhaps it doesn’t pertain to you. Again, I don’t wish to debate you. I was actually responding to IB and other believers.
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mitchteemley said:
Truth well delivered!
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sklyjd said:
“religion made me feel bad about myself.” Or “why would I want to live in perpetual guilt, shame, and condemnation?”
What do you think about the children who have to absorb this scary stuff while being indoctrinated at a young age? I ask this considering you are questioning the effect it has on people old enough to understand the emotional effect it has on them.
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ColorStorm said:
Scary stuff Steve? A good math teacher would hardly teach algebra to a five year old who can’t count to three.
A wise parent who presents the difference to children as to what his mind can obsorb- is in fact- THAT good math teacher.
Maybe you should read up on the alphabet, primers,
And the simple fact of creation- where only in the minds of the unlearned abides guilt.
But if you are guilty, then pay the piper.
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sklyjd said:
Fearing God, the fear of the Lord, fear of God’s judgment, are phrases I would think you understand well CS.
How do you think many of the churches survive in this emerging secular environment? Children are the answer; most kids will not respond with any emotion without the fear of God installed into them. They need recruits, if the parents are not fanatical enough to take up the task of indoctrination the church will.
Most regular church goers are following in the footsteps of former generations and these people are usually the core supporters, tithers and donators, and without them many churches would close their doors.
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insanitybytes22 said:
Well, as I have clearly indicated, I was not indoctrinated into the church, nor am I following in the footsteps of former generations, nor am I a very good tither. I was actually indoctrinated into atheism, and the fear, pain, and childhood trauma of constantly being told God is evil and people are good did a lot of damage to me. So your attempted narrative just does not work in this situation.
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sklyjd said:
You recently wrote well of your father and the exact words escape me; however he must not have been the indoctrinating atheist bad guy that caused you fear, pain and trauma damage, maybe it was your mother. You will understand that telling someone all gods are evil myths is not indoctrination because there is not any ideology or doctrine to implant within your brain because atheism is simply disbelief of all gods. If your father insisted you thank people for their actions rather than God he was a good parent, and in the real world that is exactly how it works.
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ColorStorm said:
Well Steve, you get a little credit. Your first paragraph is correct. I do understand. Understanding is a gift thanks to the creator of the brain. Animals lack such understanding.
Regarding the other, you are far too shortsighted- for the Chinese have found delight in God and scripture, in the midst of certain persecution with ZERO indoctrination as you allege.
Yeah, sign me up for such comfort. Wake up.
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sklyjd said:
CS you do know that the Chinese are still the most atheist country and the main religions in China are Buddhism, Chinese folklore, Taoism and Confucianism, don’t you? Christianity has always been in China and indoctrination will be a force used by them and all the religions as they always do. I do hope good Christianity beats out these bad communist ideals, however knowing the past history of religions in this region of the world I predict religious upheaval, violence and atrocities in the future, and in fact it is happening already with authorities picking on Christians and Muslims.
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ColorStorm said:
Christianity has ALWAYS been in China Steve?
Really now? Seems your carelessness with words proves carelessness of thought. So Christianity was in China before Adam and his wife graced the earth of Eden? It was ALWAYS there eh? Yeah, sure, and the apostle Paul was a Christian while he stood by clapping at the Stephen of Stephen.
In addition, you may want to consider WHY your atheistic hero friends in China have traded in their rusty world views of intellectual poison for the ffrsh and free water of life- a life mind you, that guarantees suffering amidst such repression.
For the fourth time, wake up. Use your God given brain for better things. Sin and death doncha know. Start there. And don’t forget love beyond understanding.
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authorstephanieparkermckean said:
Amen. Brilliant. I’m sharing this.
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authorstephanieparkermckean said:
Reblogged this on Stephanie Parker McKean and commented:
Another brilliant blog by “InsanityBytes.” No one can make us feel bad about ourselves unless we give them permission.
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insanitybytes22 said:
Thank you, much appreciated. 🙂
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Mel Wild said:
Ha! Awesome post, IB. You’re right about these “religion made me feel bad about myself” people. It only proves Chesterton’s point that Christianity hasn’t been found wanting, it hasn’t been tried. Condemnation and guilt are what Christ FREES you from. There is NO condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Rom.8:1). Hello???
Of course, I would agree that “religion” produces an abundance of those things, which is why Christianity, truly understood, is not a religion.
And, on the healthy self-inspection aspect, what Christ does is reveal your authentic self, your purpose and design, made in the image of God as His beloved child (Eph.1:4-7), not make you grovel in the dysfunctional counterfeit self (full of sin and regret) that you bring to Him.
So, in every way possible this sentiment is the very opposite of Christianity. Just shows how pathetically ignorant people are of the good news that brings great joy. They ought to actually try Jesus. 🙂
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sklyjd said:
“They ought to actually try Jesus.”
So simple, like trying on a pair of shoes. Have you ever thought about trying to believe in something that has nothing to offer you emotionally, mentally or with reality?
You should try believing in another god, what about Buddha? You will eventually become emotionally charged enough to become a dedicated disciple. We are all different thinkers, I would obviously demand more evidence and a higher level of reality to believe something than you would.
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Mel Wild said:
“We are all different thinkers, I would obviously demand more evidence and a higher level of reality to believe something than you would.”
How is that obvious, skyljd? And what kind of evidence are you talking about? Because the efficacy of Christianity (or Buddhism, I suspect) aren’t based on arguments or suppositions per se. We can certainly make arguments but that isn’t what transforms the human soul at all. And it’s too simplistic just dismiss it and say it’s all in our mind. I don’t think you have enough evidence for that.
Jesus is deeply relational, and when we open our heart to Him, He speaks to the deepest things about us. And I’m not even sure if those things are intellectually based at all. They are profoundly deeper, touching our very essence as human beings.
And I would demand a much higher level of evidence for your ontological reason for your continuing existence. All I’ve ever heard from atheists is entirely incoherent and fallacious; most don’t even address the question at all. And everything about our existence starts there. I don’t believe you think deeply enough.
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sklyjd said:
“And what kind of evidence are you talking about? Because the efficacy of Christianity (or Buddhism, I suspect) aren’t based on arguments or suppositions per se. We can certainly make arguments but that isn’t what transforms the human soul at all. And it’s too simplistic just dismiss it and say it’s all in our mind. I don’t think you have enough evidence for that.”
What is too simplistic is basing beliefs on the supernatural. The brain is not a simplistic organ that simply provides us with a conscious mind. Humans are really only discovering what power it has and I think there is more than enough evidence to show that the brain is more than capable of generating thoughts, beliefs, apparitions and able to generate reality for whatever a person’s emotional mental state demands.There is now overwhelming evidence that the brain drives biological changes and they are crucial for physical health, influencing everything from pain to the immune system.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/au/blog/owning-pink/201207/mind-over-medicine-the-awesome-power-the-mind-heal-the-body
This may not mean anything to you Mel, and you will automatically hand wave it away as rubbish, however if you are an inquisitive man and you consider anything that is good for your health you may want to investigate further. I can see how prayers may work in a situation of asking God for his help in healing oneself, however I understand there are quite a few methods of training your brain. Personally I have cured an anxiety problem and mentally focused on my ailments and today I feel fit and pain free. Truly, the brain is where everything comes from.
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Mel Wild said:
“What is too simplistic is basing beliefs on the supernatural.”
But yet you have no answer for how the natural world continues to exist. Logically, it cannot create or sustain itself. Again, you don’t think deeply enough about these things. And science cannot prove or disprove whether there’s anything beyond the natural world, yet, the world has no plausible explanation without it.
“There is now overwhelming evidence that the brain drives biological changes and they are crucial for physical health, influencing everything from pain to the immune system.”
Of course, I would totally agree with that. You seem to be under the impression that I don’t think the brain is an amazing organ, capable of doing all these things. I know all about that. However, YOU are being overly simplistic and overreaching to say the brain explains everything. It doesn’t. And we still don’t have a clue how the conscious really works. And we can also start with the overwhelming evidence that the brain cannot bring itself into existence or sustain existence itself.
Look, I know by now that you aren’t really listening to me, so believe whatever you want. I won’t take up any more time on this here.
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insanitybytes22 said:
Something that really fascinates me, in the modern world we are such brain worshippers, it’s all about the brain, our own compacity for reason, and we’ve kind of denied the supernatural and emotional. But science, anatomy, can actually demonstrate that our heart governs us far more than our brains. Ancient people actually understood this much better and they often spoke of the heart, “the mind” actually being in our chests and not between our ears. Just in a real finite sense, our heart actually sends more signals to our brains, than vice versa. Of course it is all interconnected but it is surprising how much our heart is actually running the show and not our brains. And the heart is not this mushy, emotional thing, it is a finally tuned bit of electrical engineering.
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Mel Wild said:
It’s really the worship of science (scientism) or nature. You can actually trace the history of this regression over the last 500 years. Before modern science, everyone understood that the spiritual realm permeated the natural world. Of course there were superstitions, too. But when the scientific method was first developed, the supernatural was intentionally not considered by necessity. Only the natural world was considered, which is what makes the scientific method so effective. Science became “natural science.” But then, some took it a step further and said that the natural is all there is, totally dismissing the metaphysical and spiritual world. The sad thing is, this departure not only severely truncates our worldview, it flattens the world and removed the enchantment and mystery, which is one reason why there’s so much more anxiety and depression in the world today. Nihilism isn’t very satisfying or comforting, no matter how you dress it up. 🙂 Nietzsche saw this happening and tried to mitigate against it. And Jung came along and said Nietzsche’s idea won’t work for most people (I believe Jung was right). It’s kind of what we were talking about in our other discussions, IB. When you remove the transcendent from the societal substrate, it causes all kinds of psychological problems.
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Mel Wild said:
@ IB.
As you can see from sklyjd’s response to me, he never actually addresses my point and keeps going on with his “brain” spiel. This is why I stopped wasting my time with these vapid arguments. He believe the brain is all there is if he wants. 🙂
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sklyjd said:
“But yet you have no answer for how the natural world continues to exist. Logically, it cannot create or sustain itself. Again, you don’t think deeply enough about these things.”
Can you not see the pattern? When you are guided and encouraged to think deeply enough about something extraordinary these deep thoughts will often manifest into what becomes your new reality, the brain will create the images and beliefs of this ideological world that you are now fully convinced exists and eventually this will be your only truth, but realistically, and what is now beyond your comprehension is the absence of rationality. Why should everything we know have to come from beyond the naturally created universe?
“YOU are being overly simplistic and overreaching to say the brain explains everything. It doesn’t.”
Well if it is not the human brain what is it? Science and neuroscience especially understand where your deeply held beliefs come from and has more plausible explanations than all the philosophers, apologetics, creationists and priests can come up with.
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Rebecca LuElla Miller said:
Great post, IB, and so true! I find that atheists are the ones who talk most about guilt and hell and God’s wrath. They don’t want to be enslaved to sin and the law, they don’t want to face judgment, so they try to avoid those things by waving them out of existence. But they still talk about them. A lot. So I don’t think their denial is working. If only they knew of God’s grace and redemption and forgiveness! It’s the cure for what ails us all.
Becky
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sklyjd said:
Not true Becky, we atheists only talk about your God because it is the only language you understand. We do not believe gods exist, the superstitious laws and judgements we just want to dispel these myths and explain the facts of reality that you fail to grasp.
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ColorStorm said:
Steve-
Just an honest observation for u to consider.
Can YOU put the wind under a microscope and prove it is real?
Can YOU place a mother’s love on the rack at PigglyWiggly and sell it in a jar?
Can YOU teach a monkey how to play chess?
ALL answers are directly related to the rebellion of man, a profession mind you, exhibited by your gripes.
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Rebecca LuElla Miller said:
Steve, I wouldn’t expect you to say anything else. But the thing is, I’m not sold on UFO’s. If there is such a thing, I tend to believe someone from earth put it up there and knows where it came from. But I do not go looking for sites of people who believe UFO’s give evidence of extraterrestrials. If they want to believe that, that’s on them. I have no skin in that game. That’s the same attitude I’d expect from an atheist towards Christians. But it’s not what I experience. Instead I see people who talk a lot about guilt and hell even when no one else is. I see people who can’t seem to ignore what they claim doesn’t exist.
Becky
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sklyjd said:
Mel, I could reference many articles of science to support the power and understanding by neuroscientists regarding the brain. From my experience even if the facts were to hit you between the eyes most of the theists like yourself will find some way in declaring the science is flawed or immediately declare “this does not prove God does not exist.” Ironically because your brain has created this God to be your reality.
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Wally Fry said:
Steve are you asserting here that you have proof God does not exist? Oops lol. According to your peers atheism is simple lack of belief in any Gods. Then you all scream that we bear the burden of proof for having made the positive assertion. Sounds like you just implied that you have proof God does not exist. Show it.
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sklyjd said:
Wally the lack of evidence provided by Christian theists for their God is simply good evidence that there is no God. Theists have had hundreds of years to find evidence but all you can hope for is God’s return to Earth to teach all of us atheists and all those other religions a lesson. I have no doubt that will never happen, and you guys are just fooling yourselves. Those bronze age writers of the Bible had claimed divine guidance long before it became a popular trend and you wanted it to be the truth so badly your brain has created this emotional journey for you.
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Wally Fry said:
Steve. You made a positive assertion that God does not exist. You did. Either retract it or provide your proof of this assertion. By no standard of acceptable argumentation do you get to use the supposed quality of another’s evidence as your own evidence. A positive assertion requires independent evidence. You are making atheists look even more stupid than they already are. Again, you made the positive assertion, provide your evidence. Also. isn’t your making this assertion some sort of violation of the atheist code or something? Every other atheist simply says atheism is simply lack of belief in any god or gods, blah….blah. You, on the other hand, are quite clearly stating that God has been proven to not exist. I suggest you back that. You might consider choosing your words more carefully, as I really think you just write stuff hoping nobody will call you on it. You have been called.
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sklyjd said:
It is quite simple Wally, the evidence you think is real apart from the Bible is that interaction with the almighty that goes on inside your head.
God looks after you Wally, he probably makes you a better man than you were, a happier person, a better father and husband, he likely gives you good advice and occasionally drops a miracle on you or someone you have prayed for.
I am happy for you and you needed God, but in your glory you would like to believe I am riddled with sinful ideals, that I am basically unhappy, more than likely am a poor father, was a lousy husband and a lying atheist motivated by Satan. The truth is nobody is perfect, but I do everything as best I can without divine guidance, and I can claim to be successful as much as any average Christian.
However, when I claim anything that is detrimental to your core religious beliefs, I am seen as Satan’s tool using lies and stories to promote atheism and to prise you away from God’s love.
So you understand God cannot be looking after me, but as I am using evil why do good things happen to me just like you? This is a really good measure of a supernatural God and because of my satanic connections you will follow the Christian doctrine and reject anything and everything I present to you. Who is brainwashed here?
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Wally Fry said:
Steve. Learn to read. We aren’t talking about my evidence. You have made the assertion that God has been proven to not exist. Please provide this proof and quit preaching your mindless atheist sermons. By the way that list you provided of the things I supposedly think? None are true. Weird how you seem to know the deepest details of the mind of every single believer yet can’t seem to produce a shred of evidence to back the assertion you have made. Focus on the challenge you have been given. Produce your evidence. Sheesh
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sklyjd said:
“You have made the assertion that God has been proven to not exist.”
Not quite true Wally, you seem to misread stuff regularly.
The God does exist for some people like yourself and I have explained where it does exist for theists.
My earlier statement “Wally the lack of evidence provided by Christian theists for their God is simply good evidence that there is no God.”
Where I stand this is good evidence. What is yours? The fact I cannot disprove your God? Sheesh.
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Wally Fry said:
No Steve, you did. You have. By inference and repeatedly. No prob. Atheism is not only stupid but filled with people who don’t have the guts to stand by what they believe. Oh, wait, you don’t have any beliefs. I am confused. Ya’ll just say stuff in hopes that nobody will notice how stupid what you say is, because you hide stupid behind 10,000 words. No sweat, though. The point is made that you have zip for proof in your God denial. Now, I must return to beating my toes with a hammer, which is infinitely more useful than talking to you.
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Athena Bocock said:
The people who say religion made them feel bad about themselves aren’t always drug addicts and murders. Sometimes they’re people who have given up there entirely livelihood to the church -and still felt like they weren’t good enough.
Was that really 100% there fault or was that preachers telling them what sinners they are? Was none of that encouraged by what the Bible says?
Don’t compare me to that.
My life was devoted to the church for 18 years before I finally learned I could forgive myself without needing someone else to.
Religion has harmed and killed thousands upon thousands of people and I’m disappointed to see that you’ve compared some them to murders and drug adults when it was they themselves that have been killed.
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David Stewart said:
Great thoughts! I think that’s why it’s easier for people at rock bottom to accept Jesus, because they know clearly that they have a problem, whereas a lot of people feel that they’re not too bad (especially compared to that guy over there). We’re not used to judging ourselves to the exacting standard Paul is using when he says “All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.”
-David
(https://greenwalledchapel.home.blog/)
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