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In what surely must be called a case of much too little, much too late, Pastor Doug Wilson finally addresses the Dalrockians in a post called, Take Me Instead.
It seems as if he is now being upbraided by more than a few red pills, some of which have written to him, and some of whom have blogged long screeds about wanting to cook his goose in a rich and savory stew. There is not much I can do at this point but add some red wine to the sauce, throw a log on the fire, and to bake some garlic bread…..
I bumped into the red pills many years ago while cheerfully blogging about the happy things, marriage, faith, submission, life, and I was quite horrified to discover this totally awful, deeply perverse, twisting of scripture in a way that justifies the abuse and exploitation of women. Also, the complete and total destruction of men who are encouraged to nurture bitterness and offense. Also, to indulge in lots of violent porn.
Like what could possibly go wrong there, right?
So Pastor Wilson was frequently quoted, for good or for ill, but basically in a way that gave scriptural justification for the beliefs the red pills were selling. So I set out to find out who exactly this Pastor Wilson was and to ask him a few questions.
I should have made an appointment, driven right up there, and said hey, I have some questions. Like, are you aware of how some of your headship teachings are being misused, misunderstood, and misapplied by some really unsavory characters? That failure to just go in person is totally my fault. I lacked the method, the means, and the madness to do it properly, and the internet is sometimes a terrible venue for communication.
I also seriously miscalculated how much actual racism, genuine anti Semitism, and for real outright misogyny actually infects some of his fan base. Some of his base, not all. Like, the entire alt right spilled forth out of the closet like the keyboard warriors they are. This is no secret, such things offended Wilson himself and so he shut down his comment section to avoid it all.
So here is the very nature of my complaint, contained in his very first paragraph, in which he says, “There are times when I feel like that peace-making fellow at Gettysburg who decided to usher in national harmony by parading between the two armies wearing a blue coat and gray trousers. The only thing that happened was that he got shot at by both sides, and retired from the field a bit wiser.”
The problem here is that you are not a peacemaker, you are peacekeeper, as in you wish to keep the peace among your followers and fan base, many who are afflicted with some genuine issues around women hatred, racism, and violent pornography. Like a lot of people who got a good thing going, you seek their favor, rather than their well-being and sanctification.
Hence we have the somewhat namby pamby, soggy pasta, overly spiritual, mushy response to Dalrock, that tries so hard to be diplomatic. Most of those Dalrockians and red pills don’t even know the gospel and here you are lecturing them about headship. It’s kind of like, have you been washed in the blood of the Lamb? Who cares, just rule over your wife and demand she submit more.
So the red pill men who would bang hot 14 yr old Asian chicks, and pervert the gospel, should not be ruling over anyone. These are not “men,” these are incredibly broken and wounded souls. Pedophiles, players, and pornographers, forever perched on the edge of violence, unable to have a healthy human relationship, let alone a healthy relationship with Jesus Christ.
There is only one side, you should be on only one side, Pastor Wilson, because there is the right side and the wrong side. Your unwillingness or inability to name evil for what it is and to choose the side of righteousness is the problem. The problem is that your bias against women is always going to color your vision, lead you to side with men first, no matter what the issue. It’s written all thorough your curse of Eve stuff. Your eyes are cloudy like you have cataracts, so perhaps you cannot see it, but that is the very nature of the problem, the essence of the heart matter.
I did not want to reach this conclusion, but I did, I did even while wading through some blatant character assassinations against Pastor Wilson. I’ve been on the internet a long time, I know how to discern a character assassination versus a valid complaint. And a complaint is not always an accusation, sometimes it is nothing more than a gentle plea to please hear me.
The problem pastor, is that you sat on the wrong side of the court room once and you continue to sit there to this day just like, “that peace-making fellow at Gettysburg who decided to usher in national harmony.”
And the cry of every single one of your victims is always the same, I don’t want to make peace with evil, I want a Godly man to denounce evil for what it is, to make my safety, protection,and healing his priority. I want him to choose me, I want him to sit on my side of the courtroom for once, as if I actually had real value, too!
For a few years now I have begged, pleaded, tried so hard to engage Pastor Wilson, but to no avail. I do know I have been seen, I do know I have been heard. Heck, my very name even appears in one of his ebooks on sexual abuse, his “letters to a broken girl.”
And yet which side of the courtroom has he once again chosen to stand on? Dalrock’s. The red pills. Those who would pervert the gospel, day after day, month after month, those who openly advocate outright abuse and violence towards women.
The red pills call Pastor Wilson “a limp wristed cuck,” and who I am to argue with such accusations? Those men really needed you to side with the gospel, and against them, to side with what is right, and against them, but once again you actually failed to stand on the right side of the courtroom so they would have something steady to place their trust in. That is why they call you a “limp twisted cuck,” because rather then fighting back spiritually and standing in the truth, you curry their favor much like a fat priest does in a room full of choir boys.
A shepherd who protects the wolves and leaves the sheep to fend for themselves is no shepherd at all.
Anymouse said:
I don’t want to really worry to much about this, but have you seen this one, BTW? Really going deep on the manliness, really calculated to get me pissed at him and his entire heritage of degeneracy.
https://dougwils.com/the-church/surplices-are-for-sissies.html
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insanitybytes22 said:
I did see that one. I also saw the photos people posted of him that same day, dressed in his very own gown and stole. Like, what’s with that? Grace for me, but not for thee? Hypocrisy?
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The Night Wind said:
“…And moreover, John, who was both a witness and a teacher, and who reclined upon the bosom of the Lord, and—being a priest—wore the sacerdotal surplice.”—-Polycrates of Ephesus, c. 190 A.D.
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sue said:
Dear InsanityBytes, those dUHrock guys are tiresome. Sometimes I drive by there, but most of the time it’s the same old, same old pharisee rhetoric. What gets me, is there slouch against marriage license. They don’t want big government in their lives…yeah, until they need government benefits. Anti-gov people are all the same.
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insanitybytes22 said:
I hear you, red pills really are tiresome. Their offense towards marriage licenses is about not wanting to ever be held accountable or forced to take care of their own. Not sure anti gov people are all the same, but oh yes, quite a few of them rail against the gov….. while refusing to pick up the responsibility and take care of their own themselves. So bash single mothers, attack women for being immoral, but at the same time promote your right to have casual sex with as many women as you can.
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authorstephanieparkermckean said:
Amen. So right, so correct, as usual.
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John Branyan said:
Dalrock’s challenge was:
“Point out any instances where I criticized Wilson without providing a direct quote.
Point out any time that I have misquoted Wilson or misrepresented what he wrote.
Defend any of Wilson’s positions that I had criticized.”
To date, I don’t think anyone has responded to the challenge.
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insanitybytes22 said:
It grieves me no end that Christians cannot see the problem with what Dalrock is doing and teaching. I shouldn’t have to point it out, I shouldn’t be encountering so many people who claim to know Jesus and yet still subscribe to Dalrockian red pill rubbish.
Have our hearts grown so hard that we can’t even recognize sin when we see it?
Bitterness, hatred, and fear towards women is all he ever preaches and I suppose that tickles some people’s ears, but it’s still wrong and it’s not okay.
Dalrock bans anyone who responds to him with anything but complete adoration, so of course you would be lead to believe no one could respond to the challenge.
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The Night Wind said:
I would add to this that the Red Pills’ whole philosophy of Game—with its emphasis on being an ‘Alpha’—breeds envy and resentment of other more successful men. It’s like the members of some lower order of mammals where a herd-bull is always getting challenged by the young bucks. Whenever one of these Red Pills gets caught in a scandal, the others throw him under the bus and fight among themselves for supremacy. Wilson has a huge following and those followers are coveted by Dalrock. As you can see, none of this is Christian behavior.
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John Branyan said:
“Bitterness, hatred, and fear towards women is all he ever preaches and I suppose that tickles some people’s ears, but it’s still wrong and it’s not okay.”
This accusation needs to be substantiated with examples. I have lost count of the number of times I’ve been accused of bitterness, hatred, jealousy and un-Christian behavior. I can’t address the problem until I know specifically what I’ve done.
I don’t agree with everything Dalrock writes. For one, he’s a Catholic and I can run through a whole list of specific criticisms of Catholicism. Suggesting that red pill advocates are merely “hard hearted” is a cheap shot. You are fully aware of the atheist tactic of dismissing all religious believers as “brain washed”. If red pill ideology are “rubbish”, you’ll need to explain why. If Dalrock is a bitter, hateful troll, you need to provide evidence of that as well.
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insanitybytes22 said:
“Suggesting that red pill advocates are merely “hard hearted” is a cheap shot.”
No John, it’s not a cheap shot, it’s the truth. It’s as plain as day to anybody willing to see it. Why is the red pill rhetoric complete rubbish? Because it deliberately promotes envy, strife, bitterness, revenge, and a lack of natural affection. Because it seeks to nurture what is bad in people and to destroy what is good. Because it is a false teaching that so often tries to cloak itself in Christian respectability.
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John Branyan said:
Let’s try this on for size.
Everyone talking smack about Dalrock is hard hearted.
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insanitybytes22 said:
No, let’s try this on for size. People hanging out with Dalrock are drinking in vinegar and not living water.
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sue said:
Dear IB, yaayyyy You 😉
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necron48 said:
@Johm Branyan
Bingo! !!
Now I know why Dalrock has so many rabid, celibate freak supporters and why he never pulls up any of his Catholic zealots who post in his retarded blog…..it’s because Dalrock is a Roman Catholic
I damn well knew something was spiritually off about him, but I just couldn’t place my finger on it, despite his obvious fanatical hatred of women and his mentally deluded patriarchal misogyny
Dalrock is an extreme right wing Catholic zealot who teaches women should be slaves to their husbands, wives should be banned from the work place and that anyone who gets a divorce and remarried is in perpetual adultery and deserves to be burned in literal fire forever
Now I know why Dalrock’s brand of Christianity promotes works righteousness and an ultra strict adherence to the Old Testament, and why there is no grace love or mercy in his life
He’s a damn Catholic that’s why
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insanitybytes22 said:
I don’t want to interrupt anyone’s anti Catholic venom, but as far as I know Dalrock is not Catholic. I could well be wrong about that. Neither are any of the protestant pastors reading his stuff. So whatever Dalrock’s issues are, they cannot be pinned on Catholic teachings at all.
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necron48 said:
@insanitybytes22
Maybe Dalrock’s gross misrepresentation of scripture cannot be blamed entirely on his adherence to Catholic ideology but it certainly gives credence to his extreme views
But you’re right, there is another factor at work here that is driving Dalrock and his misogyny. ..what that is, is uncertain at this point
But certainly no happily married man would spend so much time on a blog hating on women like he does
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insanitybytes22 said:
I completely agree with you, no happily married man would ever act that way or subscribe to these false red pill doctrines. And yet so many times I have watched Christian men I like, pastors even, fall right into it.
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OKRickety said:
That is a gross misrepresentation, made all the more glaring by your own choice to moderate those who express disagreement with you here on your blog.
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insanitybytes22 said:
In years of blogging, I still only moderate two people. One is you, another is a rabid atheist. What you both do is wallow in bitterness and pour accusations on me, and constantly attack and abuse me and other people.
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ColorStorm said:
Oh rircks
This is hilarious. Need I remind you that WP seems to think moderation is a valuable tool?
Key word: tool. Some people have the manners of weasels, with apologies that I have offended the little furry creatures by comparison.
Btw, I am an excellent judge of garbage posing as commentary, and I can smell pornography which comes in many flavors of verbal diarrhea 7,000 miles away. That said, need we also remind you that believers have not only been banned by atheist and other such sites, but moderated to the point that words are erased, substituted, and changed, so yeah, there is no lack of blame in the hypocrisy dept.
At the end of the day, believers are silenced not because we are vile, but because some cannot tolerate the blistering truth, whereas the occasional stench from certain quarters need not find a permanent home on good blogs.
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necron48 said:
@insanitybytes22
I’m one of the few Christians that can see how evil Dalrock is, and I actually made a thread exposing him. I intend to do a lot more of them so that others may be warned how sick he really is
What kind of man claims to be happily married, yet spends 24/7 railing against the so called evils of women? All Dalrock does is spew vitriol and bitterness and anger towards women whilst pretending to be a Christian
I often wonder does his wife know that her husband hates women so much?
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ourladyofblahblahblah said:
Ok, so I don’t read Pastor Wilson and I have no idea what he normally has to say on the subject of headship, but based on based on what he has to say in the post you linked to, I’m not quite sure what you are objecting to…? Is it his understanding of headship (which I *personally* think is a spot-on exegesis of Genesis 3 and what happened in the Fall) that bothers you, or is it the fact that he does not more vociferously protest those who twist and abuse God’s good gift of headship for their benefit? Or is it something else entirely?
Help! I’m confused…what am I missing here?!?
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insanitybytes22 said:
Well, I’ve done my best to be clear.
I suppose the greater question at large is, do teachings on headship such as Wilson offers, contribute,encourage,and nurture violence, sexual abuse, and oppression towards women? The answer to that seems to be a resounding “yes,” as is evidenced by the behavior, attitudes, and rotten fruit of the red pills.
So next we must ask, So does God truly hate women so much that He would just hand us over to evil men, or has something gone horribly awry with what we are teaching and how we are handling scripture? My bet is on our mishandling of scripture.
People who teach male superiority and domininion as dominance as Pastor Wilson frequently does, may mean well, may have good intentions, but they never take hard cold, look at how their words are being received or by whom, and how they so often play out.
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ourladyofblahblahblah said:
Ok gotcha, thanks for clarifying.
Although, it’s not clear to me that he is teaching male superiority/domination, at least not from the post you referenced. He seems to be espousing a call to responsibility and accountability in the husband, as head of the household, and grounds his argument in Scripture.
Now, that is not to say that the good gift of a created order, with husband as the head, can’t be perverted, and twisted into something it was never intended to be. But that doesn’t negate the “goodness” of the gift.
Or, is that what you object to? Is it the very idea of headship itself that you reject? Or, to put a finer point on it, is it the argument that headship is even Scriptural that you reject? And that’s a genuine question, btw. I’m trying to get a handle on your take on it.
Alas, when it comes to things of headship, I can’t quite pin *me* down either. I do affirm that male headship within marriage and the pulpit are Scriptural, yet vehemently disavow the idea that “God hates woman”. I’m not attempting to make a defense of that here, that’s where I’m coming from. I always thought we had similar views on this but, maybe not?
As always, just curious
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ourladyofblahblahblah said:
“I’ve done my best to be clear.”
The fault, I assure you, lies entirely with me!
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R said:
I find myself at odds here, I’d rather spend my time being encouraged and challenged by the truth, than reading about a battle that is not mine, for there are plenty that I am involved in. Just That sometimes this seems to be a bit of a gossip, or airing of anothers dirty laundry, column instead.
I have noticed that the responders are not the regular crowd either, am I missing something here? Can I opt out of the red pill debates?
Thank you,
Looking Up!
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Anymouse said:
I myself basically opted out; besides minor participation in convos with the “Junior Marital Debt Brigade” (the joking term for unmarried young men who Strongly Believe in the Marital Debt Owed by a Wife…on Twitter) I really do just avoid it. But occasionally Doug Wilson comes up, and one must role the eyes a bit.
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insanitybytes22 said:
Can you opt out? Yes, of course you can, just keep in mind that I’m not very pleased to be the permanently cursed Eve, allegedly outside of salvation, an object of God’s eternal wrath. Like, can I opt out??
No, apparently I cannot.
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A dad said:
Hey Memi! I thought of you first when I read Wilson’s post. I will continue to think that you and he are closer than you may understand, on any number of topics, first and foremost, our own fallenness and the need for redemption, which thankfully, God offers us.
A common problem I see, with many who misunderstand Wilson, is that people do not understand the military subculture that informs both his outlook, and mine.
Wilson and I, both come from military families, our fathers were in the naval Academy at the same time.
Military Officers in particular, are trained to accept and operate under the conviction that they are entirely responsible for all of the people under their command, and they are entirely responsible for the success of their missions. This expectation was all a typical kid in a military family would know, growing up in a military family. Hence, our expectations of husbands and fathers is on the same level as the expectations of military officers.
Similarly, like a good Officer, Jesus put His people, you and me, and His Mission, our Salvation, high above Himself.
And we all understand that Jesus made the ultimate sacrifice for us.
By contrast Memi, it sounds like you grew up in a pretty wild hippie commune, which is pretty different from the military.
Trust me, that is an extreme sub cultural contrast, which takes effort to overcome, on both sides.
For instance, growing up, our military family called everyone who was not in the military “civilians”.
When we lived on a military base, we called the base “inside”, everything off the base we called “outside”.
In the above context, I read Wilson’s “Take me instead”, as Wilson’s call to husbands, that they are called by God to behave at the high level expected of military officers, with the wider mission of being Godly husbands and fathers as their foremost goal, which is placed high above their individual, personal wants and even needs.
As to your thought that Wilson is a resource for misguided and evil males, wouldn’t you have to say that Jesus has the same “problem”?
Don’t people twist the Words of Jesus to their own ungodly ends? Far more than anyone twists Wilson’s words to their own ends? I believe they do.
Finally Memi, please do go visit Wilson some time. Ask him to invite you even.
A visit would be worth more than a thousand words.
Wilson is actually pretty funny in person, jolly even. You could also see how godly and well most all of the women in his sphere are actually doing.
(Although I have not been to Moscow ID in at least 25 years myself!) ; – )
Merry Christmas!
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