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“Perseverance of the Saints” is the “P” in our TULIP acronym. From there springs forth some of our popular Christian concepts like, “Once Saved, Always Saved.”
Sometimes entwined around that “P” can be a whole bunch of emotional issues. I’m all about the emotional issues! A big one for me has been survivor’s guilt or perhaps Salvation guilt. It defies my sense of justice, it triggers my unfair button. If God is just than why are some saved and others are not? That’s not fair!
God so clearly made His presence known to me when I was very small and many times since. My brother also. But my baby sister and my mother were having nothing to do with the Lord and to this day kind of persist in that mindset. There is a really sharp and noticeable division in my family, those of us who are saved are doing reasonably well, those of us who are not, are clearly not.
I’ve spent a lifetime trying to rescue people I care about, pretty much to no avail. I know that wall very well, I’ve spent a great deal of time banging my head on it. After much frustration and confusion, I finally had to surrender to the fact that only God saves. I just don’t have that power.
There are a couple of bible verses that speak to this “P” truth too, Romans 8:39, “Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.” John 6:44, “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.” Or Ephesians 1:4, “For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight.” Philippians 1:6 says, “…being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
Some people pride themselves on having made a wise decision to choose the Lord. It really is wise too, it is a rational decision. However, some of us get too caught up in the “pride” of our own good choices. We don’t like to consider the possibility that God may have chosen us, too. If God could choose us too, than God could also have the power not to choose us, and that can be a really scary thought to confront……
I have been really blessed by sticking with it however, by persevering through the emotional swamp. Do I trust God or am I leaning into my own understanding? Have I surrendered to the idea that He might have some control over our relationships with Him, too? Do I think I am more qualified to love people than He is? Do I accept that He is Holy and good or do I have to second guess Him to make sure He knows what He is doing?
These can be some tough words to swallow, “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them…” Well then, why does He not just draw everyone? The answer to that question is not nearly as important as “why” we ask it. It is question filled with distrust, with doubt, with a false believe that we are more qualified to know what’s best then God is, with fear of His potential unfairness, with fear of our own potential rejection, with concern for our brothers and sisters, with divided loyalties, with human tribalism. I find it somewhat comical, once we have resolved all of our own issues, removed our thorns, taken away our deceptions, only then we can proceed to challenge God’s ways. Philosophically, I believe that question exists for that precise reason, to help us come to the realization that God is God and we are not.
There has also been a lot of petty human rubbish convoluting matters, like people declaring themselves qualified to know who is a member of “the elect” and who is not. That kind of mindset has done some incredible harm. We cannot see into people’s hearts fully, we do not know their future. That guy you’ve totally written off may well be one the Lord’s favorite sons. Maybe even more of a favorite then you are. Condemnation is dangerous because grace is reflective.
Another part of Perseverance of the Saints that I really like, is just that, perseverance. What do you do when your prayers aren’t being answered? How do you cope in the midst of suffering that does not stop? How do you keep the faith when you’re standing in the bottom of pit and there is just no end in sight? Well, in practical terms you simply put on Toby Mac’s Keep Walking Then you take a walk! I jest a bit here. Once in the midst of some real challenges the Lord kept telling me “walk,” go out the door right now and move. I honestly did not get it at first, so it’s a somewhat comical memory. I soon found myself literally standing in the corner banging my head on the wall saying, Lord, I hear you, I just don’t know what it means! Honestly, only I could get so totally lost in literal translations.
In my own words “perseverance” simply means, God leaves no man behind. You will not be challenged beyond your endurance in a way that cuts you off from faith. God will see you through. What you must endure, He will grant you the perseverance to endure.
Some of these ideas can create some confusion around the concept of “freewill.” Sola fide means “by faith alone.” Ephesians 2:8-9 says, “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:Not of works, lest any man should boast.” Jesus also often points out, by your faith you are healed. By your faith you are saved.
Myself, I don’t see any contradiction or conflict going one, but it bothers some people. We have freewill, we have a choice, our faith really matters. But is your faith placed entirely in your own “faith?” Because we people can be kind of fickle and flaky sometimes. “Faith” itself should not become an idol. What happens when you have no faith? Does our relationship with the Lord now cease to exist? Of course not, because our relationship with the Lord is not exclusively in our own hands, it is not based only on our own feelings or the amount of faith we have at any given moment. A relationship is a two-way street. Our faith is not in our own capacity for “faith,” it is in the One whom we place our trust.
Faith is trust. If we are trusting in our own ability to trust, well there are a lot of reasons why that is shaky ground to try to stand on.
I’ve just been really blessed by chasing down some of these ideas, healed of some major strongholds and chains that really tied my spirit down. It’s an ongoing process for sure, but I really believe there is some major wisdom and healing to be found in the bible and in the words of those who have studied it. So I’m kind of clinging to my Solas and to my Bouquet of Tulips, mostly because they have been great tools for me personally.
Bless her heart, someone near and dear to me announced she was once a Christian but now she is not. The Holy Spirit led me to say, “Did God release you? Because if God didn’t release you, you are still a Christian.” That’s the problem with people who believe they have deconverted and even with some of us who have not, we seem to forget that relationships are actually a two-way street. If we believe we are exclusively in charge of our own faith then we are actually just practicing sologamy, which just amounts to a marriage of one.
My friend was annoyed so she said, “What is with your Perseverance of the Saints?” Yes exactly. How did you know? It totally baffles me too…..
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See, there's this thing called biology... 
People are entirely too absorbed with themselves msb. Last time I checked, Christ was still HEAD of His body, a truth inconvenient to the spiritually myopic, and a truth avoided entirely by atheists. The body of Christ demonstrates the eternal and consistent power of God.
It is with His consent that people are dismissed, and He loses nothing; what sane mind would lop off his own finger with a straight face? So the perseverance?
Ha! It belongs to Christ. He has already persevered, keeping His own is easy.
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I am with you about our tendency to be self absorbed and myopic. It can be very hard to see the big picture when we are navel gazing.
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As I’ve said before, I’m no Calvinist, but there is truth in perseverance. God’s grace empowers us to endure to the end. And I’m not dogmatic about it. But I do have trouble believing that God chooses one to be saved and another to be lost. I personally believe that violates His nature and makes Him a respecter of persons. I suppose you could say He sees the end from the beginning and has foreknowledge. But we still have to balance John 6:44 out with the following:
32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL peoples to Myself.” 33 This He said, signifying by what death He would die. (John 12:32)
The NT also says Jesus died for ALL mankind, not just for those who will be saved:
2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. (1 John 2:2)
God’s will is that ALL repent:
9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that ANY should perish but that ALL should come to repentance. (2 Pet.3:9)
But some will resist His will:
51 “You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you. (Acts 7:51)
God is no respecter of persons. We cannot save ourselves and it all starts with God, but we must respond to His invitation. I believe Jesus died for everyone and wants everyone to be saved. As you said, salvation requires faith, but love requires free will to respond to His grace.
Anyway, again, I’m not dogmatic about it. 🙂 Calvin could be right! (btw, TULIP was created by Calvin’s followers, not Calvin himself). My personal view is that God calls everyone. To those who respond to His invitation, He says, “I choose you!”
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Ha! I cannot very well be a Calvinist on account of the fact that I am actually a Jesus-nist. Also, nobody disliked that term “Calvinst” more than Calvin himself.
I am not concerned about you in the least, Mel. I think you got the nature of relationship down pat! Sadly many don’t! I’m not sure what the word is but I so often want to say, “where’s your inter-dependence?”
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I try not to think too much about predestination anymore. It was once a very emotional issue for me and caused me a lot of distress, even making me push a wedge between myself and God. I am content to accept that it’s not a doctrine I really need to concern myself with for now; I don’t have the eyes and the wisdom to grasp it yet and that’s okay. I just trust in God. I do believe He does want everyone to be saved as He said it Himself, just for some reason there are those who won’t make it.
Salvation can be a mysterious thing, but it came at a high cost to God Himself, so He has the most interest in making it as effective as possible in bringing as many of His creation as possible back to right relationship with Him. And that’s all I’ll say on the matter.
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Amen, Ada! I love how you set that down as not useful. I sometimes say, “spit out the bones!”
I spent many years with the Lord actually covering my eyes to several things I did not need to look at, at the time. That’s actually love, that’s protection, that’s a good Father in action. He still does that to me sometimes. 🙂
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So true–faith is a trusting relationship, not an idol to be trusted. When it comes to perseverance–what other Christians call the doctrine of election–we are dealing with a mystery that appears paradoxical to reason and logic. We have to trust that God’s wisdom is much higher than our wisdom regarding such matters. J.
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There’s that word “trust” again! Exactly, Salvageable. I can kind of chuckle about such things because I have tried to do it so many times,tried to put my faith in God without actually having to risk putting any “trust” in God. At some point in our walk, I think we’re not called just to “believe in Him,” but to actually “trust in Him.” That can be kind of scary or at least it always has been for me. 🙂
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Excellent IB! ❤
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Having Faith in His faithfulness. Once I dreamt I swimming in stagnant water. I was so far under I could tell up from down. So i couldn’t swim to the surface. .Then Jesus reached down and pulled me out. Not sure what that all means but reading this brought it to my mind.
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I really liked your stagnant water dream. I’ve had those too! Our pastor once preached about stinky kitchen sponges, about how they need to be wrung out and refreshed. I can get that way sometimes, too! A stinky kitchen sponge in need of some spiritual refreshment. 🙂
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I respect and concur with your shared theology. This is NOT intended to in any way detract from the validity of or appreciation for your stated ideas. I was reminded of my own earlier thoughts…
“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them…” Well then, why does He not just draw everyone?” In addition to your good answer, I believe this: God DOES draw everyone.
My emphasis is placed upon the fact that unless the Father draws, no ‘drawing’ is made. But that is NOT to infer that God only draws certain ones. I believe He draws everyone, in a way that each individual is made (by Him) capable of comprehending. Once ‘drawn’, each then has a choice – to favorably respond, or to reject His invitation.
Another thought to ponder = “”Perseverance of the Saints” is the “P” in our TULIP acronym. From there springs forth some of our popular Christian concepts like, “Once Saved, Always Saved.” I contend that the ‘P’ also stands for ‘perpetual’, which is the eternal state of residency of the Holy Spirit within a true believer. It is God who initiates (invites), sustains (equips us with the ability to persevere by His perpetual presence in our lives), and completes the process of our total sanctification and purity.
The HOW, WHEN, and WHY of these have been debated and divided denominations for centuries. But we should be able to accept a united dogma that simply embraces this truth – that without God it is impossible. Yes, “God is God and we are not.”
As for the ‘elect’, suffice it to say, that it definitely refers to those who have rightly responded to God’s invitation. The result is they become included (or ‘elected’) to reign with Christ forever. Again, the specific HOW. WHEN, or WHY, is questionable for many. However, it should never be misconstrued as God playing favorites or imposing unfair restrictions on eligibility for salvation.
One of the misconceptions regarding perseverance that many believers struggle with is their inability to ‘keep on keeping on’, as if God left us to muster up enough will power to weather any storm. But the fact is, He never leaves us. He is always with us, and better yet – for those truly ‘born again’, He resides IN us, equipping us with power to persevere.
“The Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells WITH you and will be IN you.” – Jn. 14:17.
“For it is God who works in you both to WILL and to DO for His good pleasure.” – Phil. 2:13.
Although debated by many Biblical scholars, I find that the issue of perseverance is NOT a question of whether or not it can be accomplished. Rather, it is a declaration of qualification for obtaining the predestined reward (gift) given. Those who are truly born again SHALL persevere!
“I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.” – 2Tim. 4:7. HOW?
“Thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ” – 1Cor. 15:57.
Finally, you stated: “our relationship with the Lord is not exclusively in our own hands, it is not based only on our own feelings or the amount of faith we have at any given moment.” Perhaps a re-reading of the following will provide an added perspective. Prayerfully contemplate the ‘ALL CAPS’ emphasis I’ve placed.
“Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but BY THE FAITH OF JESUS CHRIST, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by THE FAITH OF CHRIST, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.” – Gal. 2:16.
The implication is that it is NOT ‘our’ faith, but BY THE FAITH OF JESUS CHRIST. The faith of Jesus, the faith that led Him to the cross; the faith that surrendered His life to the Father. The same faith that said, “Not My will, but yours”; the faith that raised Him from the dead. Notice: it does NOT say “faith in Jesus”, but “faith OF Jesus”!
Yes, its ALL about Jesus! You are also right, “if God didn’t release you, you are still a Christian.”
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Thank you for that, MJ! I think you make a really good point when you said, “I believe He draws everyone, in a way that each individual is made (by Him) capable of comprehending.”
Yes indeed! It’s NOT like a lottery “drawing.” The bible says all the heavens declare His glory and He is everywhere. Nobody is cast out or deliberately rejected.
I also liked what you said about “perpetual.” It reminds me of perpetual motion which in a earthly sense we can’t quite figure out, but in Godly sense He sets everything in motion.
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This is a very thought provoking post. Thank you.
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I don’t know that we can sort out the predestination/free will tangle. We are not omniscient, so we come at the subject at a disadvantage. We don’t understand how two things that seem contradictory can both coexist.
Having said that, here’s how I’ve grappled with the issue. God has predestined all who believe in Jesus for salvation, to be born again. Do I believe in Jesus? Yep. So I’m predestined to be born again (“to become conformed to the image of His Son” Romans says). Do I have free will to believe? Yep. So I freely come to God, even as I am predestined to come to God.
The issue isn’t quite that simple, I don’t think, but that’s as far as I’ve gotten. 😉
Becky
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LOL! That is simple, but quite good enough, Becky. Works for me! I am quite content with God being omniscient. It is a bit funny how many paradoxes exist within our faith. I think they exist together quite well, they make sense to me. However, the number of rabbit holes we can fall into, the places the brain will try to go is quite astounding sometimes!
I’ve just gotten the question, “if God is omnipresent, then why do we have to ask Him into our hearts? Isn’t He everywhere already?” Ai yi yi. I may have to do a post called the many faces of NOT God. Like God is not a cosmic stalker, nor is He a freeloader. He does not desire us to go, “well since You’re here anyway sleeping on my couch, I may as well just get used to You.” Well, I suppose for some that might well be a good start, I am just saying I think He might desire a fuller relationship with us at some point, one in which we actually participate with some celebration 🙂
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I’m with you on this, IB. The apparent paradoxes don’t bother me because I see it now as God’s finger print—oh, there He is again, doing what we think is impossible! How would we expect God to do less? I mean, if all we saw Him do was possible, then why would we need Him?
Not a cosmic stalker. Ha! I like that.
Becky
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Reading this: [“if God is omnipresent, then why do we have to ask Him into our hearts? Isn’t He everywhere already?”] I just couldn’t (wouldn’t) resist…
Years ago a member of my ‘flock’ asked me, “If God is Almighty, can he create a rock too heavy for even Him to lift”? I replied, “yes, and He has, It is called free-will”. God purposely created free will to never be violated by Him.
Similar to the way a loving parent gives a diary to a child. A combination lock is included with the intended purpose of securing the child’s privacy. Only the child can open it. Of course, technically anyone can break the lock. But to do so would be in violation of the intended purpose.
It’s not that God cannot usurp our free-will, but that He has created it with the intent that it be preserved sacred to each individual. God never violates rules He has promised to preserve. God is eternally trustworthy. All life is ‘controlled’ by the stability of God’s immutable character. It’s not that He can’t, but that He won’t.
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Funny. I just finished posting this at Dalrock’s place and come here to this thread. Free Will and Salvation If you are interested in this subject, scroll up a ways at Dalrock’s place and read the comments about free will that I was responding to
I would like to post here my comments made at Dalrock’s – just to keep everything together here in case Dalrock’s site ever goes dark. If you don’t want it here, just delete it. But I think my comments at Dalrock’s place address some points that are either not considered, or are being discounted, in the comments upthread here. Presented below, for consideration, not argument:
——
The following is presented for folks to think about, not argue over. If you are in a hurry, just read the last paragraph. But the body of the post presented builds up to and supports that last paragraph.
1. What role does free-will play in our salvation?
There are verses other than these that address this point. But these are sufficient to make the point:
The natural mind is hostile to the things of God. Paraphrase of Romans 8:7.
When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. (Colossians 2:13; NIV) And you [hath he brought to life], who were dead in trespasses and sins; (Ephesians 2:1; KJV) Note that in neither instance did the spiritually-dead person bring himself to spiritual life. Lazarus can’t call himself out of the grave.
On the subject of free will, assume it exists. What will the man choose, of his free will, whose mind is hostile to the things of God? The question is not, does he have free will? The question is, what will the one whose mind is hostile to the things of God, who is dead in trespasses and sins, choose? Why do we assume he would even think to choose God? If God’s grace is the only means of rescue, how does such a man get himself out of his condition when he – of his own free will – will not, can not, choose God? The answer, obviously, is that God must reach down and grab the man. That is exactly what these verses display: when you had no interest in God, God acted on you. God is the actor here in these verses, not the man. Which makes the next set of verses at Point 2 below so important.
2. No man cometh unto the Father but by me (Jesus speaking. John 14:6; KJV) [but] No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: (John 6:44; KJV) All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. (John 6:37; KJV) Note that this last part DOES NOT SAY all who choose of their own free will to come to me. It DOES SAY all that the Father gives me …
Note that God is the actor in this transaction also. Not man. Not even Jesus. I think that nowhere in the scripture does Jesus call people to God. To say that he does would contradict the scriptures just listed above. Jesus is the way to God. But you can’t come to God through Jesus unless God draws you. God draws you, not Jesus. God draws you to himself, by way of Jesus. According to the scriptures quoted at this Point 2, Jesus does not call you to God. All Jesus can say is you have to get to God through me; but you can’t/won’t come to me unless God draws you. But if God gives you to me, I will not cast you away.
Note also that these verses leave out the role of the Holy Spirit in drawing people to God that is described elsewhere in the New Testament. For example: … no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. (1 Corinthians 12:3; KJV) Most christian sects believe that the Holy Spirit is the agent of both God and Jesus. In legal terms, an agent has the capacity to act as though they are the person who made them their agent. So the Holy Spirit would be acting on God’s behalf, acting as God himself, in drawing people to Jesus/God. (I’m not redefining the Trinity here; I’m phrasing things this way just to make my point more obvious.) Note, again, that it is not the man that is the agent in drawing himself to Jesus/God. It is not the man, under his own sovereign power, under his own free will, who is proclaiming that Jesus is Lord. Only the man under the influence of the Holy Spirit can proclaim that Jesus is Lord.
What, then, of the man who is not under the influence of the Holy Spirit? Of what use to him is his free will, in terms of salvation – if he cannot use it to proclaim that Jesus is Lord in the absence of the Holy Spirit?
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I like your perspective, Richard. Lazarus cannot bring himself back to life, indeed. In my life, I have had revelations where I just suddenly woke up to the fact that something was actually sin. It’s not unlike the song Amazing Grace, “I once was blind but now I see.” It wasn’t me at all, it really was the Holy Spirit.
I still wrestle with some of the philosophical questions, like how much freewill does a captive actually have? When you are bound to sin, are you actually free? What good is freewill if it isn’t used to set you free? If you aren’t actually free, than how much autonomy do you truly have?
Don’t mind me, I just have lots of questions that can’t all be sorted out at once. 🙂
I’ll read Dalrock’s post.
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Nice post.👍
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https://priyankagupta2597.wordpress.com/2018/01/27/udaipur-rajasthan-part-4/
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