I come from the Presbyterian church so I am allowed to poke fun at them. By “come from,” I mean that was the church I was baptized into, went to youth group, sung in the choir, taught Sunday school, and eventually got married in. In a few states and communities, but same denomination.
What’s tripped my humor today is reading not one, but 3 separate articles from assorted Presbyterians on the issue of “unity and like-mindedness.” Bahahaha! “Presbyterian like-mindedness,” now that’s an oxymoron.
For those who don’t know, Presbyterians kind of took the word “schism” and embraced it as their very own. Whether it was conflicts over slavery or conflicts over prohibition, Presbyterians know how to schism with all the enthusiasm of a new dance craze in a fancy night club. Let’s shake it all up and do the schism!
Bottom line here, doctrine never really changes, same Lord, same structural foundations. So those non-believers who take note of the fact that Presbyterians often appear to have 4, okay sometimes more like 10 denominations……within one denomination, well you would be right. It is still one faith however, one Lord, one religion. Jesus Christ is at the head of the table.
Nobody ever schisms off and becomes like, a Hindu or something. I probably shouldn’t even say that. No doubt some Presbyterian somewhere has done exactly that.
So, long history of the church parting company with one another over cultural and political differences. North versus South, slave owners versus abolitionists, teetotalers versus wine drinkers, the dour and sour Old Church versus the fresh, naive, New Church. Staid and reformed versus, so-open-minded-our-brains-done-fell-out.
Generally I enjoyed this history with all good humor and grace. Paul and Barnabas once had a falling out in the bible and they were both good men doing good work. Their split may have led to twice as much of the work of the early church getting done in two different directions. God works for good all things. Truthfully, it is not conflict that frightens me, but rather marching in lockstep. I always need that slight tension that tends to nurture freedom and critical thinking.
So it’s a bit comical that right about the last time the various Presbyterian church factions began yet another formal or even an informal re-unification process, I simply bailed. Some of the church took a hard right, some a hard left, and I was “stuck in the middle with you” as the song goes.
I don’t mean this with any mean-spiritedness at all. I spent about 20 yrs with Presbyterians and met the sweetest people. Not once did I ever have any problems at all. I can’t even begin to tell you what a blessing some of our pastors were.
I was just sitting in church one day and the Lord whispered to me, “You really don’t belong here. This is not where I want you.” So I ever so quietly slipped out the door just like that, and tragically, my absence went completely unnoticed. At the time yet another debate was raging over gay marriage, yet another Presbyterian schism was in the making, and nobody really had time for anything else like…..the actual people in our church.
It always took 16 committee meetings, sessions, retreats, petitions, letters, testimonies, and debriefing vacations just to debate whether or not the American flag should hang in the sanctuary. You try to soothe everyone’s feelings, you will soothe no one’s and the debate will rage on forever.
Presbyterians tend to either have the American flag hanging right next to the cross or now in our brave new world, the rainbow flag. I looked to the left and to the right, saw the symbolism in those flag debates, and realized that what I actually longed for so painfully, was not signs of the world, but signs of Jesus Christ.
Just Jesus, and whole lot more of Him. I actually had to leave my church to go find Him again. I have since found Him many times over, and in many different churches too, although I am kind of stubbornly a church floater to this day.
I tell this long and sordid tale, simply because there is a lot to be learned from watching these Presbyterian struggles and how it might apply to those of us in the Body of Christ in general and how we go forward as a country with all these powerful cultural divisions among us.
What we do is we put Jesus Christ first and we love people as individuals made in the image of God. That simple. It’s very easy to say, but not so easy to put into practice. That however, is the very essence of “like-mindedness.” Our unity is not to be found anywhere but at the foot of the cross.
Fair or unfair, Christians must lead the way on this issue. We must stop perceiving people as SJW’s or liberals or conservatives, or inclusive or exclusive, or trad/cons or feminists. The more worldly labels we insist on wearing, or on slapping on other people, the less room there is for Jesus Christ. We must begin to perceive people as His beloved, as made in His image, not as somewhat dehumanized, faceless symbols of the culture around us.
I don’t wish to sound critical or to in any way imply that Presbyterians somehow create cultural schisms. This post is simply in response to 3 articles, all from members of my former denom who wrote about the importance of unity and like-mindedness and just caused me to spit coffee out my nose. It was just the same old, same old thing, all these external dictates that are supposed to unite us.
Our internal dictates are what unites us.
Our like-mindedness is in Jesus Christ, it is in the blood of the Lamb, it is at the foot of the cross. The moment you start to believe it can stem from some other place, you are in big trouble.
What is needed so desperately in the church right now is people who can listen. One of the biggest flaws we tend to have as Christians is that we are often so busy telling people what they ought to believe that we don’t know how to listen. We have all the answers and what we are going to say is already rehearsing in our minds when others are trying to talk to us……to tell us what the problem actually is.
The second issue is that we don’t have teachable spirits. The teachable spirit is always supposed to be what the other guy has…..so we can just set him straight and teach him.
I had a beautiful youth pastor once, Presbyterian guy even. He embodied both of these ideas so perfectly. He never tried to teach us anything, he’d simply sit back and say, “So teach me about what the Lord has shown you this week, I’ll listen.”
That is what humility actually looks like when it is heavily infused with grace. It really has little to do with submission to authorities, political loyalty, church leadership, statements of faith, or cultural mandates.
He never tried to teach us anything, but in the process he taught us everything.
Good stuff. You covered a lot of ground here.
The idea of the rainbow flag is an assault on grace I think, and pretends liberty where scripture forbids. That’s a valid discussion though after meeting in the narthex!
Leaving a denomination for another such as Hinduism? Ha, don’t think so, I never heard of it either. Maybe leaving the wine group for the grape group, but that’s a technicality.
But in the end, whether there be three or a thousand denominations,, that’s a bunch of people trying to get it right. The affable Mr Fred Rogers was a high Presbyterian, and a good man was he. Heck, I have even know one or two good Baptists. \o/
But a fair tackling of a serious topic msb. Two ears, one mouth. Good word there, listen.
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I am glad you know some good Baptists lol
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Couldn’t resist. 😉
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I love your sense of humor… you express what might be ordinarily dry material in such a winning way! And I especially appreciate your conclusions. The following statement particularly stood out for me: “Our unity is not to be found anywhere but at the foot of the cross.” Amen! ❤
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IB says this often. Words to remember.
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Every church should have a purpose to “just distribute Jesus” in all sorts of methods, manners, styles – and to every sort of receiver at any time and in any place. Love your humor mixed with solid meat. 😀
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Great post. My husband and I are sort of church floaters right now too, for some of the same reasons. We relocated about 5 years ago, and everything around us seems to be Mega-Churches which drive us crazy. The Mega Churches seem to be more about the pastors and less about Jesus. We were part of a Baptist church for about 15 years prior to that, and it was much smaller and you knew everyone, or at least recognized everyone. And it was Biblically sound, which is hard to find now days. By the way, being from a Baptist church your comment “It always took 16 committee meetings, sessions, retreats, petitions, letters, testimonies…” made be giggle. You should have seen what our old church went through when the pews needed to be replaced. The debate of pews versus chairs was unrelenting. So much so, that today, they still have the same old pews because no one could come to a decision! LOL Blessings!
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Attend a small church that meets in a school. Easier to get to know people, and the church is Bible-based.
Because we want to grow a bit larger, we are looking for a building big enough for Sunday meetings. I suppose eventually we will find one, but I wonder if it is a waste of money. Unfortunately, most people expect churches to have buildings. We forget that make up churches, not brick and mortar.
Anyway, small churches don’t have too many committee meetings.
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“Fair or unfair, Christians must lead the way on this issue. We must stop perceiving people as SJW’s or liberals or conservatives, or inclusive or exclusive, or trad/cons or feminists. The more worldly labels we insist on wearing, or on slapping on other people, the less room there is for Jesus Christ. We must begin to perceive people as His beloved, as made in His image, not as somewhat dehumanized, faceless symbols of the culture around us.”
Amen. Well said. As Kierkegaard said, as soon as we label someone we can dismiss them. That way, we can dehumanize them and be as mean and ugly as we want with them. We certainly aren’t making room for Jesus.
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Presbyterians kind of went with an ecclesiology that favoured the individual communities at a lower level. So authority flowed from the bottom-up. Not the natural way authority is supposed to go. It’s like your kids telling you how you ought to behave and then becoming your punishers, setting you in line when you misbehave. Authority is supposed to flow from the top-down. Who is at the top? The Head, Jesus the Christ.
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I don’t know much about Presbyterians. Your post kinda reminds me of politics.
As a Catholic over the years, I found a variety of Priests with varying talents to teach, preach, lead, or interpret the Bible.
I realize we all have different talents and abilities to serve the Lord, that to me is what is most important. If someone is disappointed or unsatisfied with a Church leader, maybe it would be best to find a different preacher or pastor. I noticed also when visiting different churches when traveling, the spirit of the congregation seems to have varying egress of spirit.
Regards and goodwill blogging.
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Wow I didn’t know you came from a Presbyterian background!
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I’m a Presbyterian, or better stated, God has lead me to a Presbyterian church. I enjoyed reading your post and your perspective. God bless!
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