So, have our hurricanes, floods, and wildfires come about due to global warming? Are we being punished for spending too many carbon credits? Did mother nature take one look at President Trump and his climate denial and say, “here, hold my beer?”
Or, are we being punished by a wrathful God, thoroughly enraged about gay marriage, homosexuality, pornography, and numerous other epic fails as a civilization?
I am uncertain which of these statements annoys me more, but I am aware that they are both rooted in the same shame based sense of self-loathing that always insists on punishment for who and what we are as a people.
I mean we totally deserve every “bad” thing that ever happens in the world, as either punishment for our existence and rape of the planet or because we have gone and annoyed a wrathful God who actually hates us. Why does He hate us? Becasue we hate us. He doesn’t hate us at all, we actually hate ourselves and project all that self loathing right onto the face of God Himself.
You’ll have to forgive me, I’m a bit annoyed by all this, perpetual shame based self-loathing really being quite the opposite of grace, a chronic malfunction of humans of all stripes, and it represents an epic failure to get to know the God who made us and the God who died to save us.
It represents a keen misunderstanding of the very nature of love and grace and it maligns God Himself. It’s also very self absorbed. Our own human stupidity is so all-powerful we can actually make God do mean things to us? That’s totally childish, narcissistic, and controlling.
What if God simply felt like taking a breath? What if He just blew up a great wind for His own good pleasure? What if it isn’t about us at all? Maybe He just felt like stretching His legs?
So, as I often say, where there is shame and self loathing there is also toxic pride. Where there is toxic shame and pride, there is always a need for repentance. What covers and heals our shame, is always the grace of Jesus Christ.
To be trapped within this model of perpetual shame, self loathing, and a endless desire for punishment, is to make self-evident our own lack of faith and inability to surrender our toxic pride to the life altering grace of Jesus Christ. That’s ugly enough on an individual level, but when it begins to permeate us on a societal level, it is almost too much to bear.
Could He shake us up? Of course! Is discipline a real thing? Of course, and it means to teach, the same root word as “disciple.” If the lesson we learn from all this is that we are bad and God hates us, well, that is just an epic tragedy, a natural disaster all of it’s own. It is a total waste of our potential to think, act, and perceive the world with the mind of Christ.
Ironically, the cure for self loathing is repentance.
See, there's this thing called biology... 
Well put!!!
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Great post! But you know the Scripture says to be vigilant. Some are just vigilant. The Scriptures also says that God is saving judgement for the ungodly. Truth is some people are too prideful to repent. We as believers know of the goodness of God’s grace and know to repent. The thing is that unbelievers don’t and you can’t ignore that half of the Scriptures about judgement to the ungodly. Truth is if it was that simple, there would be no lake of fire or signs of the last days according to the Words of our own Savior, Jesus. Read Matthew 24:3-14. Not everyone will repent. You can’t believe certain parts of the Lord’s Words and not all. Some I think are just being vigilant. We can only pray for those that have not repented to understand Truth.
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I think it is important here that we remember Nineveh and do not become like Jonah who was so invested in seeing the city fall,it took God himself throwing him overboard and swallowing him up in a whale to force him to realize,he was the one who needed to repent and obey. We people can be just like Jonah today,more gleeful about seeing people we don’t like destroyed,than we are about following God’s will.
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Do you remember God used Jonah to bring the people to repentance, Jonah 3:1-10?Jonah did God’s Will. Just because we have God’s grace that is not a license to sin. What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? By no means, Romans 6:15.There’s more to grace than the word so carelessly thrown around and polluted these days. God’s grace is a gift to all mankind, Titus 2:11.He gives freely so that no man should boast, Romans 5:2. But we must also receive by FAITH,Ephesians 2:8. Which means to BELIEVE. And if you really care and are compassionate, you can’t ignore the signs of disbelief becauseact like disbelief gets you God’s grace.Faith without works is dead, James 2:17.
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Gods grace covers all that except it. Jesus blood was shed for and is on all who believe….but by some people’s standards neither God nor Jesus lives up to the grace that some profess they have…for if they did there would be no hell. How could God turn anyone away for being a sinner? Wouldn’t we all just go to heaven and have cake and ice cream? No. That’s not the God of the Bible – Jesus cleansed the Temple in anger…overthrowing tables and scorning those people. This new age Jesus that is all love and grace would have walked in and hugged everyone and said “no biggie guys dad loves you” … To say God has no wrath makes Jesus sacrifice and what he went threw bearing Gods wrath in vain. Or was Jesus sacrifice for all mankind regardless if they believe or not? The Bible even talks about the wrath of God in the end times coming on homosexuals, idolaters, sexually immoral, fornicators…how God expresses it is up to Him…but to say ANYTHING happened without it passing through the hand of God is erroneous.
I know looking at those beaches that had all the water literally sucked away to the point that there was dry land to the horizon line…reminded me of just how weak, pathetic, minuscule and finite I am compared to a great big mighty God that can pick up billions of gallons of water and move it hundreds of miles away with one swipe of his will…
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Typos and no edit**you can’t ignore the signs of disbelief if you truly care. Disbelief does not receive grace. Let’s be honest. Faith without works is dead, James 2:17.
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Go back and read Jonah again. Jonah was swallowed up because he did not want to go and do God’s Will. He fled from God…
The word of the Lord came to Jonah son of Amittai: “Go to the great city of Nineveh and preach against it, because its wickedness has come up before me.” Jonah 1:1-2…
Jonah did not want to do this and God had to have him swallowed up because he fled from telling the people of their sins. Why? Because when you’re truly compassionate for people, you want their soul to prosper. And in order to love people, you must first love God. True love for God is hating wickedness and those that oppose His Will.
Let love be without hypocrisy Abhor what is evil; cling to what is good, Romans 12:9. Sorry to write a book. lol I’m passionate that is all. Blessings to you !
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“Because when you’re truly compassionate for people, you want their soul to prosper. And in order to love people, you must first love God.”
Jonah had no compassion for people at all,and did not want their soul to prosper,he wanted Nineveh destroyed. Jonah is the one who was opposing God’s will.
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My comment is littered with typos I personally wish WordPress would let us edit what we type. The case on my iPad makes typing on here terrible…and if the charger is plugged in, it combines words, inserts words or omits words. I gave up fighting it…
The beauty of God is that he is just. And that he is the same, yesterday, today and tomorrow. And with his enormous beautiful unmatched grace that IS extended to all who believe he also has the Sovereign power of wrath for all who are separated by sin. If there were no wrath, we would need no grace.
This is the love of God, the tremendous gift, the way he made for us to receive salvation and be spared from it.for this do we cry hallelujah and sing amen…for Jesus saved us who believe from it! Those who do not repent and believe will find Gods wrath upon them and hell is their resting place. And that is Biblical truth.
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I’m sorry WP won’t let you edit. It’s kind of funny because I can see the edit buttons on this end,but they won’t show up on yours. Crazy.
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I’m never quite sure which punishment is more scary – that of Christians who don’t really quite believe in grace or that of atheists who don’t quite believe in an objective standard by which we should be punished?
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I too have wrestled with that question, Ada. I also am not sure what is worse,an outright non believer or a harsh judgmental Christian who drives people away from their Father. Truthfully, the Christians who don’t seem to know the truth of grace scare me far more.
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Christians shouldn’t declare what God is doing as if they know. We know some what He has done; we know what He requires of us; but we absolutely don’t know what He is doing. We do know He loves His Creation and wants to redeem what is broken in it, we know we are supposed to tell people about His great love for them. Why did God send Jonah to Ninevah, a place of great wickedness? God called Ninevah to repentance because He loved them and did not want sin to destroy their souls. He doesn’t hate us because we are infected with sin; He wants to heal us of the infection so we can be in relationship with Him, and he wills this for all. This conception of God as delighting in the destruction of what He loves is diabolical.
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“This conception of God as delighting in the destruction of what He loves is diabolical.”
I agree, I just don’t get it. God doesn’t hate His children, He died for us. We have a loving Father who died to know us, not a Father who delights in our destruction.
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But who ever said that God hates His children? I have never heard that. Those that are “zealous” for their God hates wickedness. That is a good thing. They hate those that oppose His Will. God wants our soul to prosper. In order for your soul to prosper you have to be convicted as well as comforted. Honestly, having compassion for people who are intentionally wicked is like having compassion for Satan! Who does that? Lol And let’s be honest, there are some wicked people on earth! Some Christians don’t live a comfortable Christian life. Some are persecuted by wicked people. What do you say for those? It’s easy to judge other Christians and label them judgemental without first understanding them. Have you ever thought about the fact that wrath brings repentance for some people? Some learn the hard way. And even then the Bible says some still won’t repent. Look at the example of Pharaoh. What if Moses had compassion on Pharaoh? God stirs people for a reason. Everyone does not live a comfortable Christian life to have your perspective. Have a great day.
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God’s compassion calls all to repentance, and sometimes people do have to be brought to hard things to bring them to repentance. Others never repent – they choose hell instead of God. But we aren’t supposed to hate people and there is no evidence that Moses had no compassion on Pharoah. Compassion understands that all people, including Christians, have had or have real impediments between themselves and God. We shouldn’t stand off from those without Christ and pronounce His wrath upon them. We should be in the trenches with them pointing the way to Christ. If we had any conception of the reality of hell we wouldn’t wish for anybody to go there.
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Thinking that you can save someone who chooses hell over God is being unrealistic. If God can not make them accept salvation, who are we to think we are better than God? Who are we to think we can do the job of the Holy Spirit? Who can do what God himself can not? That is not biblical or realistic. I don’t think any Christian wishes for anyone to go to hell and I think it’s a lack of understanding and unfair judgement for another believer to assume that. Some Christians just don’t sugarcoat the truth I think. God offers ALL the free gift of grace, however ALL do not choose to receive. It’s easy to feel that way if you have never been persecuted by wickedness. It’s not wrong for those people who have experienced persecution at the hands of wicked people to find comfort in a “just” God. The Scripture informs of this.
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As long as a person is alive, they have a chance to choose God instead of hell. I don’t actually think anybody can do the job of the Holy Spirit and it’s certainly not a leap to think What I do think is that I’m a sinner who needs to repent every day and I’d like to (even though I often fail badly) approach others with humility, understanding that I’ve been forgiven much and any ability I have to obey or love God comes straight from Him. I deserve no credit. And because over the course of my life I’ve realized many, many times that I’ve been doing wrong things that I thought were right and need to repent I’m reluctant to pronounce God’s wrath over other people when justice would demand I suffer God’s wrath as well. Nobody is saved except through God’s grace and people aren’t blind through choice but through the deception of the enemy.
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We as believers know this. All I’m saying is judging another believer and labeling them judgemental is not approaching everyone in humility. Love should be without hypocrisy. Just because someone speaks the truth differently than you do doesn’t make them wrong. As long as it’s truth of God’s Word, I’m not bothered.
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The human race continues to self loathe its mere existence but does nothing to change its hevaiour despicable!x
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Exactly! If we’re going to self-loath,than we need to repent and change our behavior. Often it seems as if we spend all this time hating on ourselves as a group and yet doing nothing about it.
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‘Taking a break….stretching His legs.’ Uh, yep.
I like to say too msb that a mere clearing of his throat is good reason to send continents off the map. Fortunately He is good at holding His breath!
But certainly there is enough in nature to get our attention, and after all, the ‘whole creation groans,’ thankfully because of our wayward steps, but still, His patience is otherworldly.
But like blips on radar, who are we to chastise God if He wants to hiccup? 😉 No loathing needed.
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Now that’s what I’m talking about,Colorstorm. For His own good pleasure! Maybe He just took a deep breath. 🙂
There are many things that happen in the world that we don’t understand and probably won’t this side of heaven. God is good however,always,and all should be well with our souls no matter what happens. He is not out to get us. I mean,maybe He is chasing someone down like the Hound of Heaven, but that’s His love at play, not a thirst for our destruction.
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Well we do have precedence and good reason for such agreement:
‘For His pleasure they ARE…………and WERE created……………’
Our appreciation for His handiwork, or even others disdain of His handiwork, is a by product of His goodness.
God will still be God, whether we like it or not. May as well like it msB. 😉
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LOL! I like it quite a bit, Colorstorm. He is God and I am not, thank goodness. 🙂
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I don’t think it’s hatred or wishing hell on someone, I think in all fairness it’s wanting “justice.”
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One of the hardest things for me in faith has been letting go of my own thirst for justice. There’s been a lot of bad people in my life who need to suffer. The very nature of grace however,calls us to forgiveness and to loving our enemies. To receive grace ourselves is to receive a full pardon. Wishing hell on someone or hating them is actually vengeance and I get it, I’ve been there, but just the same it is sin. The very a nature of grace,mercy,a pardon, justice suspended for our own selves, calls us to extend the same to those who have hurt us.
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God’s Word tells us to hate evil. Proverbs 8:13, psalm 97:10, Amos 5:15, romans 12:9, exodus 18:21, psalm 119:04, psalm 45:7. There’s a difference between forgiveness and hating evil. If God’s Word tells us to hate evil, who are we to disagree? Self loathe is to have extreme hatred of oneself. To love yourself is the opposite of that. Biblical self love is to know you have power over sin because of grace. You are already justified by faith and after you go through the grace of sanctification. Like Paul said, ” Take this thorn from my side,” 2 Corinthians 12:8. But God said His grace is sufficient in weakness, 2 Corinthians 12:9. Therefore it keeps us from having a sense that we’ve “arrived.” It keeps us from being too prideful of our holiness.
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I remain unconvinced that God’s word commands us to hate. Jesus told us to love one another,even to love our enemies. One problem with our own hatred is that it is so often rooted in fear and we are called to be fearless so many times,some people have said the bible gives us 365 teachings about fear,one for every day of the year.
It is not that God’s word is wrong,it is that our own perceptions,motivations,and emotions are wrong, so we have a tendency to get hate all wrong too. Also, we are often so busy hating (fearing) that we haven’t got time for love.
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To love one another including our enemies I agree because that’s what Scripture tells us. But in order to know what love is, you have to love God first. That’s the greatest commandment is to love God first.
Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself. All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
Matthew 22:34-40….
The truth is you can’t love anyone if you don’t love God. That’s why that’s the second.
Love should be without hypocrisy, hate what is evil and cling to what is good, Romans 12:9. I enjoyed this discussion. Have a blessed day!
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Greetings! Your observation about shame and self-loathing being coupled with toxic pride is right on in my book. I have often said in my recovery (and I can’t take credit for the phrase) that,”I was an ego-maniac with a self-esteem problem.” Sounds like a paradox, but what in life doesn’t to some extent?
Even Jonah knew God better than most; “Salvation belongs to the Lord” – Jonah 2:9. But in his pride he didn’t think the Ninevites deserved it, and threw himself a little pity party when they received it. He did love the people on the boat enough not to take them down with him in his disobedience…yet I think that’s just like me sometimes, giving grace and the benefit of the doubt to strangers, but as VtoV said above, wanting justice for those I think deserve it.
If you consider self-loathing as a form of worldly grief, your last sentence is 2nd Corinthians 7:10 on the money! Be blessed!
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Ha! An egomaniac with a self-esteem problem,I love it! You’ve named it rightly.
It took me along time to learn that pride can hide itself behind a hoodie and insecurity, too. One of the good things about letting go of pride,is that we also let go of shame and insecurity. The ego is real bugger, he’s a bit self absorbed. Less self and more God is the path to healing.
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“Why does He hate us? Because we hate us. He doesn’t hate us at all, we actually hate ourselves and project all that self loathing right onto the face of God Himself.”
Nothing could be truer said, IB. Self-loathing is a form of pride because God thought so highly of us that He gave what was precious to Him to redeem us, His very own Son. What God hates is His children abused and enslaved by their own foolishness, which is why Jesus used Moses and the serpent on the pole as an illustration of salvation (John 3:14-17). We were snake-bit, Jesus was the anti-venom. 🙂 When we receive that unfathomable love and repent from our self-loathing, we can actually obey Jesus and love our neighbor as we love ourselves. In the meantime, unfortunately, the opposite is also true.
As far as natural disasters, I think we get a bit too Old Testament on that one. Jesus said His Father loves His enemies and His rain falls on the just as well as the unjust (even if it happens to be four feet of rain in hours, like in Houston!) Or, it could just be particular weather patterns that happened to have lined up for the perfect storm.
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Amen, Mel! Self loathing is a form of pride. We are believing our own feelings over what God has said about us. He calls us redeemed! That is good news!
We need to walk in that redemption, not in our own pride that often tries to make an idol out of our own self loathing.
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