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blogging, doctrine, forgiveness, grace, insanitybytes22, opinion, truth
Bit of a kerfluffle over the idea of needing to forgive yourself. That’s not in scripture! Only God forgives! Rawwrrr……..chest thumping, stomping, etc.
All true in a literal sense, but let me clarify what it means to “forgive yourself.” It means to come into agreement with God, it means to accept His forgiveness and His grace. To receive it. It means to stop defying what He has said, as if your own opinion takes precedent over His. If He says you are forgiven, and He does, than failing to forgive yourself is refusing to receive what He has given you, what He died for.
To harbor unforgiveness towards yourself is actually a form of defiance and rebellion, because you are saying my own petty, foolish, little sin is bigger and badder than God Himself. It’s also a form of false humility, false piety, false virtue.
Extra credit points for trying to claim such things are justified because “self forgiveness” isn’t literally in the bible. Like no one’s ever tried that line before….
We do not forgive ourselves, as in, only Jesus Christ is the source of grace, but we do have freewill. We do have the ability to reject Him, to not receive His forgiveness, to refuse to let Him wash us, “….If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me.” -John 13:18
That is called refusing to forgive yourself, because God already has. You are the one holding out, not Him.
Something I keep bumping into, it seems as if some people don’t realize there are two kinds of truth, there is cut and dry theological truth, and then there is emotional truth, practical truth, applied truth. The two complement one another, they do not contradict each other.
Many people are very linear thinkers and legalists, they need truth compartmentalized and tidy, a list of clear rules. Myself, I believe in the Holy Spirit, I believe we were given Him to help us navigate those choppy waters of moral ambiguity. That freaks some people out. There should be no choppy waters of moral ambiguity! I totally agree, but there are. Life is complicated sometimes, the world is full of deception, and people can be complex. We need the Holy Spirit to guide us and to lead us.
Doctrine is important to me, theology is important to me, perhaps even more so because I often operate in the emotional realm, and in the realm of the Holy Spirit. Doctrine keeps me rooted.
It should come as no surprise to anyone, that God seldom reveals the whole picture, the complete unvarnished theological truth all at once. If He did, my brain would just blow up. Instead He shows me just the part I need to see, as it applies to my situation. The Truth may in fact be much bigger, but the corner He is asking me to look at is much smaller and more focused. That does not mean the Truth is not the truth, it means we are focusing in on the part of the truth that we ourselves need to take a look at.
Anybody ever been standing in the midst of appalling dysfunction, rampant sin, horrendous chaos, and God has said, yeah, none of that stuff is any of your business, I want to talk to you about that shopping cart you tucked between two cars when you thought no one was watching….That’s called targeted truth. It’s hard on the pride.
So if God tells you, you need to forgive yourself, you need to forgive yourself. The idea that self-forgiveness disrespects the concept of God alone forgives, is true! It sure does. We don’t fix that by declaring the phrase itself to be unbiblical and throwing it out, we fix it by coming into alignment with God’s will, obeying Him, and forgiving ourselves.
See, there's this thing called biology... 
I couldn’t agree more. Forgiving yourself is agreeing with God and letting go of our false pride and self-pity.
“Many people are very linear thinkers and legalists, they need truth compartmentalized and tidy, a list of clear rules. Myself, I believe in the Holy Spirit, I believe we were given Him to help us navigate those choppy waters of moral ambiguity. That freaks some people out.”
Haha…good luck with a linear life! While we do prefer a safe straight road, life is more like this…
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Let go our false humility and pride, that is. 🙂
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Great road, Mel! Yep, that’s life. 🙂
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Yeah, another thing about that pic is that the guardrail is broken through on the first curve! Oops! Yup, that’s life, too. 🙂
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Amen! Good one to add to my latest post about my biggest problem!!!
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Amen, Debbie! I really enjoyed that post of yours and the pastor’s message.
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This is a conundrum for those of us with baggage. For some unknown reason, we seem to wallow in the burdens. Something I need to work on constantly. I know that Jesus has paid the price and that my sins have been forgiven, but I still hang on to guilt.
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I hear you. I have wrestled quite a bit with burdens the Lord just can’t have. Nope, give it back,it’s mine. 🙂 He is ever the Gentleman and often will let us do just that, but it’s much better to turn it over, let Him carry it, and allow Him to heal us.
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You are one confused postmodern lady Gabrielle.
God does not leave us in moral ambiguity. That IS the lie of the postmodern devil.
Of course these biblically illiterate, morally degenerate postmodern fans of yours will keep the affirmation flowing your way so all’s good and who cares what God’s word actually teaches. That’s a real inconvenience you cannot afford.
“Art” That’s where it’s at. Just keep diggin the art and you’ll be ok.
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I think I mentioned something about chest thumping, kerfluffles
You know how I can tell you need to forgive yourself and receive more of the Lord’s grace? Because you are unable to extend grace to others and because your words are harsh and full of condemnation.
“A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.”-Like 6:45
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Hi tirib-
Would you care to name names? That is, to go on public record before man and God, citing these ‘biblically illiterate, morally degenerate postmodern fans of yours…………….’
After all, Paul himself had no problem naming both friend and foe. You know, Alexander the coppersmith, or Phoebe.
Just a suggestion, careful how you answer. 😉
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The only problem with your argument is that even an atheist can forgive himself.
No God needed.
Since the atheist is a human being like any other, that means that forgiving one’s self is part of our human nature.
When Jesus said, “Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us,” he was indicating the nature of both God and man.
Human beings are created in God’s image.
That means we don’t need God to forgive others or ourselves.
We simply need to see forgiveness in our heart and mind’s eye and then will it into being.
Forgiveness is Godly mojo woven into the fabric of human being by the Creator.
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But atheists cannot and do not ever forgive themselves.That is part of the reason why they must forever run about the internet attempting to justify their own non belief, constantly seeking some perverse kind of “salvation” in the number of people they can deconvert.
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Insanity,
Of course they do!
You must think atheists are aliens from another universe.
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No, I think atheists are the unsaved. What fascinates me is your compulsion to defend them. I’m not quite sure what that is about.
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Insanity,
You are changing the subject.
It is simply Psychology 101 that the ego protects itself.
That is why self-hatred is considered a mental disorder.
You are worse than an atheist in that the god you believe in is simply an image of yourself.
You use names like “God” and “Jesus” to lend authority to your bizarre spiritual ravings.
In reality you are a postmodern pagan who has figured out that if you pilfer authority from “God” and “Jesus” and the “Bible,” other postmodern knit wits will listen to all the crap you spew.
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Yikes silence.
It appears you are visiting the wrong field of battle. You may want to stop and ask for directions. 😉
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Well, Silence does have away of bringing to life the blessing and miracle of the…. entire protestant reformation. By the time he is finished, I am often quite prepared to just nail my own self to a church door somewhere. 🙂
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Yes, it does seem you have been nailed at least 93 times already!! lol
And to use a comment coupon since I’m here, we at least give the benefit of the doubt to good Catholics everywhere, as having a right to live and eat off the true Vine, which Catholocism is but one branch, whereas many of the Faithful…. do not recognize any other branch on that same tree.
Seems to me there is no shortage of misunderstandings as to the size and scope of God msb.
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Indeed, Colorstorm, all jokes aside, I do give grace to good Catholics everywhere.
It is only the ones chasing me with torches and pitch forks, who give me pause. 🙂
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Storm,
The only battle is the one you are hallucinating.
I am simply transmitting authentic Gospel teachings.
Heed them, Pagan! And repent of your nasty ignorant ways.
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Just an observation friend and neighbor:
If you were transmitting authentic Gospel teaching………….there would be the utmost of harmony. There would be an agreement, an accord, a symphony.
Me? The scriptures are sufficient, and I need not filter the truth through a board of so called apostolic delegates who themselves sit in judgement of scripture…….to learn, know, and understand, and apply its contents. 😉
You can never win this argument Silence. I have the throne of heaven on my side, as does the lady here who you are also berating for her perpetual daylight.
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Storm,
Pagans find Gospel teaching quite upsetting.
If you had ever read the Bible you would know that.
Think “martyr.”
Look it up in the Bible.
Saint Stephen was the first one.
Storm, you are not only a pagan but your are a thoroughly stupid pagan.
You are so full of yourself that nothing else can enter.
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“You are so full of yourself that nothing else can enter.”
Not to put too fine of a point on it, but the words we try to accuse others with, are always going to be the words we are speaking over our own selves.
Hence the need to be more forgiven, which enables us to be more forgiving towards others.
It’s not Colorstorm you’re speaking to Silence, it’s yourself.
“A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil; for of the abundance of his heart his mouth speaketh.”
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Insanity,
Go argue with one of your kids.
I am simply stating the facts.
You are a pagan who uses Jesus to get traffic to your site.
You aren’t Protestant and you certainly aren’t Christian.
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“Go argue with one of your kids”
I am, Silence, I am. Listen to the words you’re trying to say to Colorstorm. They describe you, they are a projection.
You’re not only trying to lock me out, you’re trying to shut the Lord out, too.
Hang in there Silence, and be well.
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Insanity,
You are nobody to say what my words mean.
My words mean what they are meant to meant, in standard, dumbed down English, so you, the pagan can understand what I am saying.
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Maybe I should have spelled it out for you Silence more clearly. I assumed the benefit of the doubt for you.
There would be harmony, NOT between you and the infidel, as light and darkness are opposed………but there would be music between you an I……..
But odd though eh, how such a stupid pagan such as myself could easily explain justification through works, and justification through faith, bringing into agreement both Paul and James, and honoring both God and scripture, through the person, work, and worth of the Lord Christ.
And time would fail to speak of the awesome lecture given by Stephen, not of Catholicism, but of Jewish history and rebellion, and the grace of God, which scorching truth brought his life to an abrupt halt.
Other than that, no, never read the bible………
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Strom,
Save your spelling lessons for your pet dog.
I know what you are and so do you.
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Perfectly said. Holding a grudge against yourself diminishes God’s grace. I am so bad about this.
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Me too, Brandon.
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“Forgiving yourself” isn’t really what one needs. Placing faith in God’s ability to forgive us is what frees us from our guilt. That is where the power to let go of our past comes in. I think that the concept of forgiving oneself is our attempt to hold on to some sort of power that only God can dispense. I’ve dealt with a lot of guilt in my lifetime and it has only been by focusing on God’s forgiveness that I was healed, not by any act of forgiveness toward myself.
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“I think that the concept of forgiving oneself is our attempt to hold on to some sort of power that only God can dispense.”
Well,one problem I have with that is that so many people wait, 20-30 years for God to “dispense” forgiveness. They remain unchanged and trapped in their own behavior, unaware that the forgiveness has already been dispensed.
We can hold on tight to that sense of being unforgiven, in effect blocking God’s grace and healing,in what really can be called an attempt to, ” hold onto some sort of power.”
Perhaps not everyone is this silly, but I am, and a great many of us are. We will set our baggage down at the foot of the cross and than promptly pick it back up again, because it is familiar and comfortable, because we take pride in carrying our own luggage, because we wish to remain in control of it all.
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We don’t have to wait for God to dispense forgiveness. We wait to believe God has the power to actually forgive us by maintaining we have some sort of control over the whole process.
We are saying the same thing, I just feel that “forgiving oneself” should bff characterized more by accepting God’s power to forgive as infallible and perfect.
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I think we are pretty much saying the same thing. It all stems from the same problem, an unwillingness to accept and trust God’s power.
Absent Him, “self forgiveness” will do nothing. I have seen that scenario play out, too. Grace is supernatural, it is not psychological.
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Absolutely. Really enjoyed this post and your blog in general!
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God Bless you, and thank you so much for this!!! I will never be the same, in Jesus name.
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Amen to this IB—and wooooh…a bit of a tussle up above from three of my favorite bloggers—
I do see our Silent friend’s point…. as in an atheist can “forgive” himself from his perceived wrongs…. or maybe it’s really more like his ego cuts him slack for all the “my bads”
“Forgive” is a secular word.
However we of the Faith use the word in a grander sense as we associate forgiveness with that of the Omnipotent.
As in it is a larger commodity than merely excusing a “my bad”, my mistake, my mia culpa….
And it is here where the word lies in which we are finding the tussle.
We the Faithful see forgiveness nailed to a tree on Good Friday.
We see the blood shed.
We feel the heavy contrition of all of that has been given and of all that has been done for us…us, mere sinful man…
And at times, the sheer magnitude of such is simply overwhelming.
Yet it is a gift …
a selfless Gift freely given to a selfish and convicted man / woman.. who of which
deems themselves, ourselves, to be unworthy.
We hear the words of the Savior admonishing us to forgive others to the utmost—and here is where the ego and the secular collide.
For a Believer to forgive themselves from egregious acts–and we’ve all committed them for do we not consider all sin, sin–we see our sinful nature as something unworthy of the ultimate sacrifice offered by Christ.
Our ego allows us to “forgive” others, even ourselves readily—but it is by Grace that we find the ability to forgive the unforgivable.
We feel the heaviness of guilt in knowing that we ourselves have nailed those nails….
and in turn we rationalize that we are undeserving.
And here is where Satan sees one more opportunity to try and screw up a free Gift— for he whispers in our ears that we are not worthy nor are we deserving …
And having been one who has committed egregious sins…I know that forgiveness of self comes slowly.
And it is when we can separate ourselves from the Omnipotent…seeing God as indeed God and we as merely the created—it is then and only then that we can accept His act of Forgiveness as being the truest of Gifts….and we can begin to find the healing He’s intended all along.
Semantics between Catholics, The Orthodox and Protestants….has always been our detriment.
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“All true in a literal sense, but let me clarify what it means to “forgive yourself.” It means to come into agreement with God, it means to accept His forgiveness and His grace.”
Quite true. Of course, it would be unnecessary to make that mental translation if people were taught this, and correctly stated “I accepted God’s forgiveness” rather than “I forgave myself”. It would also be a teachable moment for those who hear it — It gives God the credit and the power rather than the self-empowerment implicit in the latter.
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