It is very challenging for me to try to articulate the culture war playing out on the internet and how that all impacts, faith, politics, and our country. I’ve written about the red pills and their hatred of women, some of the perversion and inversion of scripture,and white supremacy. What I have not written about as much is their hatred of the church, hatred of faith, hatred of Christians ourselves. Hatred.
That’s a really difficult concept to explain because these are Christians or at least people claiming Christ’s name. Wolves right in the midst of “the church” as a whole who seek to tear it down, who make no bones about that, who flat-out declare the Bride of Christ to be the enemy.
That is another reason I was pleased with the SBC for tackling the difficult issue of the Alt-Right, but really racism is only the tip of the iceberg, the tiny part that is peeking out of the water. Dive beneath the surface and you have some downright satanic stuff going on, this huge iceberg that is somewhat invisible to those who just give it a passing glance.
I will let Vox Day explain it, his dark little ‘enfant terrible far better at speaking the truth of its own nature than I am.
“We don’t hate conservative Christians, we simply reject them as potential allies because they are useless failures inclined to do more harm than good to the nations. Their Christianity is cucked, and therefore dying;……Their conservatism hasn’t even conserved the tradition of using the toilet. And their globalism makes them anti-American, anti-Western, and therefore our enemy.” link here
Now, why do you dehumanize an entire group of people and name them as the enemy? Because that is how you justify violence against them, that is how you rational-lies your war against them. That is how you inspire people to perceive “the church” as the enemy that must be taken down.
A huge part of their agenda, whether it simply be the ramblings of mad men or not, is to over throw the church and rebuild Western civilization in their own image. They are not just at war with our culture, or with women, or with minorities, they are at war with the church itself. Take those words to heart when VD says, “and therefore our enemy.”
He means that.
So many people are deceived, seduced perhaps by politics, what has become a tangled mess of fish lines that lends itself well to ears so easily tickled. So many pastors, pastors I really like and respect, won’t listen to me. They are all like “ra ra Alt Right,” with little or no awareness that what they are actually defending are people who have declared themselves to be enemies of the church, who wish to destabilize Western civilization and dismantle the Bride of Christ. That IS their stated goal and it grieves me no end to see people so duped.
Now shoot, “Alt-Right” is just a label and in the blink of an eye even I can become “Alt-Right.” In fact, one silly girl already has me on her “Alt Right” list. Just the same, that is not the issue at all. The issue is that as Christians we either stand for something or we fall for anything. A shepherd who cannot spot a wolf actually wearing a wolf hat and calling itself a wolf, isn’t a shepherd at all.
For crying out loud, Gentlemen-whom-I-shall-not-name, VD calls Anders Breivik who executed 70 kids in cold blood, a war hero. That’s called a major red flag. He speaks of glorifying God with his hatred and unforgiveness. He lies. His is an advocate of violence. He inverts scripture. He sows chaos. He is without excuse.
You who follow him are without excuse, too.
newenglandsun said:
the problem with this “alt-right conservative” movement is that by and large, they are for the eradication of terrorism by any means necessary. which means they support anarcho-capitalism in one area, and then national socialism in another area. they lack consistency and they are largely atheistic…
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john zande said:
atheistic… How so?
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insanitybytes22 said:
Many Alt-Righters are atheists and in fact, VD and others have declared them to be allies. They are united in their desire to destroy the church, so people with a common goal.
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john zande said:
Atheists aren’t out to “destroy” your churches. The more vocal of us would just like you to stop meddling in the running of our secular societies.
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insanitybytes22 said:
Many atheists are indeed out to destroy churches and faith itself. Don’t wrap yourself in virtue, Zande, it’s unbecoming. You wish to disabuse people of their faith. That is the whole point of your evangelism.
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john zande said:
Many, huh?
Can you list all the times atheists have bombed churches?
And Inanity, didn’t you support the Evangelical Kill-The-Gay laws across Africa? Isn’t that in the Alt-Right wheelhouse?
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insanitybytes22 said:
The “alt right wheelhouse” is not quite as you imagine it, Zande. Take Milo for example, out loud and proud. Of course, even he shies away from the alt right label.
No Zande, Ironically much of the alt-right disapproves of me as much as you do.
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john zande said:
Don’t get me wrong. I’m pleased you’ve taken this stand. I did read your article yesterday and had to wonder why your church even had to “debate” the issue, but hey, i left that alone.
Now, about the Evangelical Kill-the-Gays laws… You supported those, right? You still support them. You want gays murdered in Africa.
Isn’t that an Alt-Right kind of thing?
I’d hate to think you’re being hypocritical, Inanity.
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insanitybytes22 said:
Well first of all, I kind of like that “my church” thing. I am actually not a member of the SBC just so we’re clear, but I’ll lay claim to them in the sense that we are all one church.
I’m not going to rehash old debates,but believe it or not, much of the alt right agreed with you and not with me on Africa.
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john zande said:
not going to rehash old debates…
I’m sorry, does it make you uncomfortable talking about your support for murdering gays while simultaneously trying to dress yourself in some angelic anti-alt-right gown?
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insanitybytes22 said:
LOL! John, if you think I’ve ever claimed to be “angelic” your powers of discernment are as messed up as your faith.
I do not advocate murder or even the death penalty. Never have, never will. The bill you speak of specifically addressed rape of a child for the sole purpose of giving them aids. Rape of a child, Zande, an alleged cure for adults who have contracted aids. The precise kind of voodoo, woo, you, if you were in your right mind, should have spoken out against.
As a result the country now has a whole lot of kids dying of aids. You, in your eagerness to defend all things homosexual, were actually advocating for child rape as a kind of spiritual cure for a disease.
Not unlike the dumb Americans who were recently advocating for sharia law because their own foolishness apparently does not allow them to see the part where Islam actually executes gays.
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john zande said:
Absolute lie, and you know you’re lying.
The KILL THE GAYS bills (written by US evangelical Christians) make no mention whatsoever of this nonsense… But is that what you tell yourself at night to help you sleep, liar?
Meet the American Pastor Behind Uganda’s Anti-Gay Crackdown
How anti-gay Christians evangelize hate abroad
Who’s Helping Finance Uganda’s ‘Kill the Gays’ Bill? You Are
It’s Not Just Uganda: Behind the Christian Right’s Onslaught in Africa
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john zande said:
The offense of homosexuality
And again… The offense of homosexuality
Mmmm, liar, I don’t see any reference here to raping children so as to pass on AIDS.
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insanitybytes22 said:
Zande, I’ve already provided dozens of links, I’ve already had this debate with you, I’ve already played linky wars. It’s boring now. I get it, you have your own ego investments and cannot even hear me.
So go away, cool off, and come back when you actually want to have a real discussion. ABOUT the post.
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john zande said:
Of course, you can’t defend your postion, so you run away with a feeble handwave.
I’m sorry, but Alternative Facts don’t play in the real world, Inanity.
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insanitybytes22 said:
“Aggravated homosexuality.”
(1) A person commits the offense of aggravated homosexuality where the
(a) person against whom the offence is committed is below the age of 18 years;
(b) offender is a person living with HIV;
(c) offender is a parent or guardian of the person against whom the offence is committed;
(d) offender is a person in authority over the person against whom the offence is committed;
(e) victim of the offence is a person with disability……”
http://www.publiceye.org/publications/globalizing-the-culture-wars/uganda-antigay-bill.php#april
I am neither a liar nor am I feeble, Zande. Now kindly go cool off. I have much bigger fish to fry.
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john zande said:
LOL… drawing upon wrong information
Langa specifically cited[when?] the unlicensed conversion therapist Richard A. Cohen, who stated in Coming Out Straight, a book that was given to Langa and other prominent Ugandans,
Homosexuals are at least 12 times more likely to molest children than heterosexuals; homosexual teachers are at least 7 times more likely to molest a pupil; homosexual teachers are estimated to have committed at least 25 percent of pupil molestation; 40 percent of molestation assaults were made by those who engage in homosexuality.
These statements were based on faulty studies performed by Paul Cameron, who has been expelled from the American Psychological Association, the Canadian Psychological Association, and the American Sociological Association, and Cohen confirmed their weaknesses, stating that when the book is reprinted, these statistics will be removed.[30][31][32]
Oooops
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john zande said:
And Inanity, where, exactly, is the “The bill you speak of specifically addressed rape of a child for the sole purpose of giving them aids.”
Lie?
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john zande said:
Hey, there’s even a Wiki page showing your lies.
Guess what, liar, the word rape is used twice… Neither make reference to gays raping children.
In sub-Saharan Africa, South Africa and Namibia are the only governments to support LGBT rights, but even there, curative rape is used against women, such as in the murder of Eudy Simelane, and violence is sometimes met with police inaction and apathy. Like the conditions in many other African nations, gays in Uganda currently face an atmosphere of physical abuse, vandalism to their property, blackmail, death threats, and “correctional rape“.[19][20]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uganda_Anti-Homosexuality_Act,_2014
Oh dear…
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newenglandsun said:
they have no basis in their politics on christian ethics!
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john zande said:
What’s a “Christian ethic”?
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newenglandsun said:
you asked about the times when atheists bombed churches–how about the leveling of churches by stalinists in communist russia? and how about chairman mao’s persecution of christians in china? in fact even today in china, christianity is hard to practice without running into legal trouble.
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john zande said:
And atheism (the lack of belief in the gods) has what, exactly, to do with 20th Century sociopolitical movements?
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newenglandsun said:
the problem with you atheists is that you say that it is “just the lack of belief in gods” and yet when one of your fellow unbelievers is found guilty of massacring a bunch of people you say “well, he didn’t do it in the name of atheism”. ironically, mao, pol pot, and stalin did it for the SOLE purpose of the annihilation of theistic religions but whatever…totally unrelated to atheism just like isis is totally unrelated to islam.
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john zande said:
Any particular reason why you failed to address the question put to you?
What, exactly, does a lack of belief in the gods have to do with 20th Century sociopolitical (anti-feudalism) movements?
Are you trying to suggest Communism, for example, is inherently “anti-theistic”? That would be an interesting position to try and defend considering the very first Christians were practicing communists.
All that believed were together, and had all things in common; And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
(Acts 2:44-45)
Sounds rather similar to this little line from Marx: “From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.”
And this:
There was not a needy person among them, for as many as owned lands or houses sold them and brought the proceeds of what was sold. They laid it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to each as any had need.(Acts 4:34-37)
Communism, however, predates the early Christians by hundreds, if not thousands of years. Plato wrote about Communist societies in The Republic. So, just because you can’t think ”Communism” without immediately envisaging various 20th century experiments with the idea is your failing, not mine.
And FYI, Pol Pot was a Theravada Buddhist.
In the future, think before you type. It might save you unnecessary embarrassment.
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newenglandsun said:
i did answer your question. i stated stalin and mao were both atheists who killed people in the name of anti-religion. and yes, marxism is inherently anti-theistic. you apparently have not read karl marx.
pol pot was a buddhist. but there is no suggestion he was a theravada buddhist which would be their more theistic sect. but even they are not required to believe in a transcendent god. all evidence points to pol pot being a buddhist who did not believe in god making him an atheistic buddhist and hence a buddhist.
but back to marxism which all three maintained. marxism essentially argues that as the middle class develop into power, there will be no need for religion of any sort since it is the distopian world we live in which requires religion to begin with. in marx’s utopia, religion is no longer needed. so yes, marxism is inherently atheistic and all these men were marxists. radical marxists much like there are radical muslims.
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john zande said:
They “killed people in the name of anti-religion” did they?
Ah…
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newenglandsun said:
did they not focus on religious targets and hate religion? hmmmm…i question your intelligence.
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john zande said:
No, they focused on overthrowing an archaic feudal system that had brought nothing but misery and war. The fact that the Orthodox church was in league with that corrupted system had little (to nothing) to do with underlying motives.
I’m afraid your cartoon version of history is wonting.
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newenglandsun said:
“The fact that the Orthodox church was in league with that corrupted system had little (to nothing) to do with underlying motives.”
Except the Orthodox Church was not in league with the Russian Monarchy. The Russian monarch was Russian Orthodox and practiced Orthodoxy but he was not in league with them. It was not the Orthodox Church that governed. So why throw out the Orthodox and abuse them? Oh yeah, because the Stalinists and the Leninists were trying to get rid of religion.
And I noticed you conveniently skirted over Mao and Pol Pot now realising you are cornered. 😉
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john zande said:
My ignoring you has nothing to do with the strength of your argument. It has everything to do with not wanting to waste time debating an idiot pushing a pantomime version of history.
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newenglandsun said:
yet you still waste time with yourself…
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newenglandsun said:
oh, please…you’ve never read marx or the scriptures. christian giving is far different from governmental allotments…
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john zande said:
And Newengland, you still haven’t answered the original question: What is a “Christian ethic”?
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newenglandsun said:
a christian ethic is an ethic that is based on the worldview of christ, the church, and the trinity.
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john zande said:
That’s a bit nebulous. Can you give me an example of a unique Christian ethic in application?
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insanitybytes22 said:
Well yes, anarchy and atheism, never a good sign either.
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Wally Fry said:
Only one is our enemy, and he is not a person.
Just sayin
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insanitybytes22 said:
Amen! I am always trying to say, “I have met the enemy. He is not us.” People seldom believe me, however.
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Wally Fry said:
No, they tend not to believe it. I like that expression, by the way.
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Rebecca LuElla Miller said:
The apostle John, in his second letter, said, “Many deceivers have gone out into the world . . .” I surmise from that statement that they started in among the Christians, since they had gone out. So deceivers are not something new. It is very appropriate, however, to warn people about them.
BTW, the particular deception John was addressing is one that seems on the rise from the atheist community: “those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.”
Becky
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Jim Lantern said:
“The capacity of the human mind for swallowing nonsense and spewing it forth in violent and repressive action has never yet been plumbed.” – Robert A. Heinlein, the novel “Revolt in 2100” (1953), in a postscript to readers, regarding an American theocracy dictatorship and how it could happen after election 2016, in the story “If This Goes On—”.
Today it isn’t the Christians threatening to establish a theocracy. It’s an old enemy Christians have had to defend themselves against about 500 years ago – an earlier version of ISIS. Makes no difference to them – Agnostics, Atheists, Christians, Jews – even the Shia Muslims the far right Sunni Muslims hate – all are infidels due for a haircut – just take a little off of the top.
I believe in “each to their own way of life” as long as it does no harm to others or prevents others from living their way of life. As an Independent voter averaging out to be Centrist and similar to Libertarians but not as extreme, I have equal concerns about the far left and the far right.
The managers of the Republican and Democratic congressional baseball teams appeared together on Wednesday afternoon to call on lawmakers to ease tensions between the two parties after a shooter opened fire at a baseball practice for the GOP’s team. Reps. Joe Barton (R-Texas) and Mike Doyle (D-Pa.), who manage their caucuses’ respective baseball teams, told reporters on Capitol Hill that Congress’s annual charity baseball game would continue as scheduled Thursday night, despite the shooting that injured five people, including House Majority Whip Steve Scalise (R-La.). “Joe and I talked and we decided that we’re not going to let incidents like this change our way of life or daily routines,” Doyle said at the news conference. “It will be play ball tomorrow night at 7:05,” Barton told reporters. “It shouldn’t take an incident like this to bring us together,” Doyle said. “When the leadership of this country is civil toward one another, maybe the public will start being civil toward one another too, and the news media will be civil towards members of Congress and the public and we can change the mood in this country so that people don’t get filled up with this kind of hatred.” Meantime,the mainstream news media fans the flames by helping those playing the blame game for the shootings and related hatred. In all that, something has been missed, I noticed, and I’ll soon write about it at Lantern Journal. Of all the faces a member of Congress has during the course of the job, the face shown while participating in one of the most American activities there is – a baseball game, is the most human face of all. The faces of real people – some of whom have families and children. Taking a break from the American nightmare to live the American dream. Their true souls exposed. There be friends, not monsters. That’s what the gunman happened to attack, regarding when and where, whether planned or coincidence of opportunity chance when targeted victims were most vulnerable and most human. He failed. This time two of the best acted above and beyond the call of duty, even after being wounded, for the good guys to win the day, defeating such evil. Can they go back to business as usual after that? No. They have before after past attacks, but this time they shouldn’t.
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Jim Lantern said:
[Correction in my previous rambling. Timeglass Journal or Lantern Timeglass Journal, not Lantern Journal.]
CNN appears to be providing live coverage of the Congressional Baseball Game as I write this followup. There are online live streaming sources including Facebook and C-Span online and on cable TV. Why is this important. 22 of them nearly got killed yesterday. Those who play together must stand together against the true enemy. There you see friends, not enemies. You see fathers and husbands and brothers. You see their human faces, their true souls exposed. They are Americans.
Sorry, I believe I muddied up my previous comment a bit as I lost my train of thought. So much going on at the same time today here in my home and out there in the madness of mainstream news media. Ah yes, here’s my train of thought. Found it…
…The punchline at the end. “They’re Americans.” We are. Our true enemies are not. We ride on the same train or we die on the tracks of the train of a true enemy that will run us all over when we are most vulnerable.
I was trying to mesh my point with respect for the subjects of your posting and related comments of others spanning more than one issue. What a kaleidoscope! It’s…
Round like a circle in a spiral, like a wheel within a wheel
Never ending or beginning on an ever spinning reel
Like a snowball down a mountain, or a carnival balloon
Like a carousel that’s turning running rings around the moon
Like a clock whose hands are sweeping past the minutes of its face
And the world is like an apple whirling silently in space
Like the circles that you find in the windmills of your mind!
What’s worth fighting for? What’s really important? What’s worth dying for? What’s worth living for? John 15:13 [NIV] – “Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends.” Each of us has limited resources. I care most about those issues that can or do have direct impact on my life, day-to-day living. the things that can save me or destroy me. Selfish? Perhaps. Other issues I can take an interest in. express an opinion about.
Rambling on further again, I’m starting to feel like the Mad Max kind of character in Dhalgren, science fiction novel masterpiece Samuel R. Delany.
One more thing, this night of members of Congress playing baseball, being human, being Americans. You know, setting aside their differences for one night to attack each other with baseball bats…
Something that kinda puts me in my place as just another grain of sand on a beach being hit by a tsunami. Walk into Walmart on a Saturday, or after church on a Sunday afternoon. Look at them. Look at their faces. Look at how they are dressed. Wonder what concerns them – most of them – what issues reside in their minds. Basic needs, Day-to-day living. Survival. Family, children, friends, jobs, entertainment. Concerned they are and aware of such lofty issues obsessively covered by the likes of CNN and Fox News, and MSNBC? Perhaps. There’s a difference between observing it, writing about it, and living it.
It’s the end of the world as we know it.
It’s the end of the world as we know it.
It’s the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.
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Jim Lantern said:
C-Span is covering the baseball game. CNN was trying to cover it but then CNN could not resist being CNN. Fox News and MSNBC never got there. God have mercy! Now the “Breaking News” (is there any other kind?) it’s Jared Kushner’s financial connection to a Russian spy school. While Paul Ryan and Nancy Pelosi sit with each other at the baseball game and for an interview about working together as result of the shooting. Escaping from the box I go outside and look up to shout, “God save me!” God gave each of us freedom of choice, and a mind to find ways to save ourselves and each other. They don’t teach common sense in our public schools and universities. We writers of such editorial articles pressing the word at WordPress are the true “Watchmen” (2009 movie) but without costumes and superpowers.
By the way, about Americans. Just citizens of the United States? There is North America, including Canada. There is Central America. There is South America. Americans. All are Americans. English or Spanish, Americans. October 5, 2011, With education reform on a list of high priorities for the White House, President Obama enlisted the help of pop star Shakira Isabel Mebarak Ripoll to sit on President’s Advisory Commission on Educational Excellence for Hispanics – a four-person group that to give advice to the president and Education Secretary Arne Duncan. The Grammy Award-winning musician is perhaps most famous for her hit album “She Wolf,” which sold more than 2 million copies worldwide. “In addition to her career in music, Ms. Mebarak Ripoll has been involved in a number of global educational efforts.” She secretly attended UCLA back in 2009 disguised as a man, wearing a baseball cap to class, and even her professor wasn’t aware of her identity until after she finished the class. Born and raised in Barranquilla, Columbia, South America. An American. Wall? What wall? No wall in music that unites people. There might never be a shortage of issues to fight over, go to war over, kill each other to death and beyond over . . . but what can and will unite us, even with such vast differences in language, culture, and ways of life?
The baseball shooting awakened something in me. Revived something in me.
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Julie (aka Cookie) said:
wow—quite the discourse going on here in commentville…your patience knows no bounds IB as I’d have gone bonkers after the Z man’s first rebuttal or maybe it was after he hollered “liar” as if that’s the polite way to discourse…but I digress…
I want to share a quote I’m using in tomorrow’s post that seems rather fitting here in your volley of words….
“The anti-God regime is always the anti-human regime”
Bishop Fulton Sheen
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RichardP said:
Person A: Allow me to marry whomever I want to.
Person B: People can only marry someone of the opposite sex.
Which of those two people are trying to impose their will on the other?
Nobody is born knowing anything. Folks turn into doctors and lawyers and plumbers and electricians and car mechanics and so on only by paying attention to the particular unicorn that will tell them what they need to know in order to develop that skill set.
When two or more people decide to come together and live as a “society”, they must answer the age-old question, “given that we have chosen to live together rather than apart, how then shall we live our lives?” An answer to that question will be developed, even where folks don’t even know the question exists. Like the specialists listed in the previous paragraph, no one is born knowing the answer to “how, then, shall we live our lives?”. But there are unicorns that can tell folks what they need to know in order to answer that question. Everybody turns to one, even if we don’t all turn to the same unicorn.
From the graph upthread: “… the day you start involving the unicorns in the decisions for this country …”
What an uninformed statement. Because everyone involves their own special unicorn(s) in the decisions of this country (see Person A’s comment at the top of this post, inspired by the advice given by their own personal unicorn). The question has never been whether unicorns should be involved. They have always been involved. The question is which unicorn’s advice leads to the best outcomes for society. Which unicorn’s advice leads to the best outcomes of this activity that is required in order for society to survive: go forth and multiply and replenish the earth.
In a world of finite resources and finite time, some ideas are better than others. Some behaviors are better than others. Some lead to the continuation of life (society). Some lead to the destruction of life (society). The flesh or “being” of the unicorn has no value to us. Where the value of the unicorn lies is in the ideas / guidelines for living a more successful life that he lays out.
Zande – you did a really uniformed thing with that graphic. The debate is not about the unicorn. The debate is about the ideas that the unicorn has presented us with for answering the two questions discussed here: “how, then, shall we live together” and “how shall we be successful in being fruitful and multiplying and replenishing the earth. For society to continue rather than perish, those two questions can only consider a certain range of answers as being proper and useful.
It’s not about the unicorns. It is about the ideas of the unicorn. And some ideas are better than others, depending upon what your goal is. If the goal is to manage to live together peaceably and productively, and be frutiful and multiply and replenish the earth, the ideas of some unicorns work directly against that, while the ideas of other unicorns actively promote that.
Zande – discuss the ideas, not the unicorns. You haven’t yet. I wonder if that is maybe because you don’t really know what they ideas are that you are rejecting. Suppose that you have been tasked with the job of promoting peaceful productivity and the circle of life. Do you know what ideas work best at doing that? (Rhetorical, since this is not the place to have you write a book in response.)
The suitability of answers depends upon what the goal is. Zande, you and I have different goals. So we are going to be drawn to the ideas provided by different unicorns. You have a right to listen to whatever ideas you wish to listed to. But you are uninformed if you seriously think you don’t have your own personal unicorn that you are listening to.
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Mel Wild said:
Wow, after reading all the comments I forgot what your post was about. 🙂
I got 130+ mostly irrelevant comments recently on a post that was 24 words long, so I can relate.
The Al-Right people are about as Christian as Hitler was Christian; they’re just the latest version of politicized fascist demagoguery, feeding on fear and hate. The very opposite of following Christ. I’m glad the SBC condemned these phonies.
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SLIMJIM said:
Wow, calling Anders Breivik a hero is wrong. He’s evil.
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