I speak of fairytales. You’ll pry my fairytales out of my cold, dead hands. That may sound very strident and it is indeed, but it is born of atheistic thinking, of having been surrounded on all sides and perpetually accused of believing in fairytales. Dump your imaginary Sky Daddy. Be a realist, there is no God. So in total defiance, IB became quite a romantic, clinging to her “fairytales,” also known as the bible.
Several discussions have come up all around the concept of post modern thought, subjective truth, moral relativism. Here is one, Wintery Knight asking CAN A PERSON BE POSTMODERN AND A CHRISTIAN AT THE SAME TIME?
I just want to say something about post-modernism, it is characterized by skepticism, cynicism, distrust of the grand narrative. What is the grand narrative? Well, that is the question indeed. The grand narrative is actually where you place your eyes, what you believe in pretty much sight unseen. “For we walk by faith and not by sight.”
Christianity itself is a grand narrative. Faith is a tangible thing, it has evidence and substance to it. “Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.” However, it requires one to believe in and to follow a grand narrative.
A grand narrative is the stuff of fairytales, for example, love conquers all. Love conquered all on the cross and He is now seated in victory at the right hand of the Father.
The thing is, we are all products of our environment, so we are all touched by post modern thinking. One cannot simply escape the deception by claiming to be a realist, an evidence based thinker, cynically rejecting the grand narrative and slaying romanticism. In the very process of rejecting post modernism, you’ve actually just become a post modernist. That one will really mess with your head.
Naturally people have different styles of thinking, there is great diversity in how we perceive the world, and this is a very good thing indeed. Recently at Literary Life, we have been discussing Madame Bovary, The Fate of the Romantic. Unchecked romanticism all by itself does indeed have a dark side, and the novel explores some of those themes.
That same concept of rejecting post modernism by slaying romanticism came up again among some religious leaders on the TV, and all in good fun here, but IB indulged in quite a bit of romanticism by having a frolicking debate with the television. A debate by the way, that I won.
Here is what I perceive to be the nature of the problem in the modern world. We no longer believe in fairytales. We are cynical about the grand narrative. We reject many aspects of what could be called traditionalism. In the US, in a country barely 200 years old, we refer to most human wisdom that came before us as the total ignorance of our Bronze Age ancestors. We have evolved, progressed, donja know. We are now reason based, rational, scientific. Vastly superior creatures who can just sneer at things like myths and legends, or wit, whimsy, and woo. Our disease is not romanticism, nor is it fairytales, nor is it the rejection of logic and reason, it is an ailment that springs from pride and putting our faith exclusively in, leaning into our own understanding.
The very moment we place all our trust in our own ability to fully understand the nature of our own existence, well, “believing themselves wise, they became fools.”
“Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.” -Philippians 2:12
Rebecca LuElla Miller said:
I asked a former pastor about postmodernism when I first became aware of it. He said, it’s a human philosophy, no more right or wrong than modernism. Or as you say, romanticism. There are some good things and some way off base things. But that can be said about other systems of human thought, too.
As I was reading your post, this came to mind from Paul in Romans 8:
“for in hope we have been saved, but hope that is seen, is not hope; for who hopes for what he already sees? But if we hope for what we do not see, with perseverance we wait eagerly for it.”
So keep hanging on to those “fairytales,” sister. May they of necessity be pried from my cold dead hands as well!
Becky
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insanitybytes22 said:
Amen Becky! Thanks for Romans 8.
Human philosophy is all well and good, just as long as we remember it’s human. LOL, “human” means potentially flawed, prone to error, unable to see the whole picture. We do not always know what we think we know. Or perhaps as God may call them in our lives, sudden plot twist!
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silenceofmind said:
Put simply, modern thought includes that expressed by the Founding Fathers that our rights and morality come from “the Laws of Nature and Nature’s God.” **
That means justice, prosperity and liberty are brought about by each citizen being educated in the Laws of Nature and Nature’s God and then living a life endowed with liberty.
Post-modern thought, put simply, is the rejection of the Laws of Nature and Nature’s God.
That means anything goes because each person is at liberty to create his own reality based on his own feelings and intentions.
The ancients Greeks, under the King Solomon category of there is nothing new under the sun, called that sophistry.
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insanitybytes22 said:
Ironically, romanticism began to spring up in defiance of the enlightenment, the one that proceeded the French revolution in which we seated the goddess of reason upon the throne and proceeded to lop off everyones head.
Romantics actually lean heavily into the laws of nature and nature’s God too, hence, “See there’s this thing called biology.”
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silenceofmind said:
I don’t think our Founding Fathers can be compared to the French romantics.
The fruit of the Founding Fathers was the greatest, most just, most prosperous, most powerful nation in human history.
And the French…
…well they’ve always been the French. Any dark road will do.
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insanitybytes22 said:
LOL! I wasn’t comparing the founding fathers to the French romantics, I was just pointing out that romanticism has also had a powerful influence on America and if you look to some of our classic literature, you find evidence of that in Nathanial Hawthorne’s Scarlett Letter, Edgar Allen Poe, Moby Dick even. Romanticism has always appealed to the somewhat defiant heart of America, our very founding actually requiring a Revolutionary War.
Here’s what makes that all so interesting, romanticism actually has a great enthusiasm for morality, not self defined morality, but the truth that must be rooted out among all the worldly deception.
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silenceofmind said:
Excellent points, Insanity!!
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Mel Wild said:
Good word, IB. I agree, the postmodern “emergent” Christianity has lost its way here…
Truth is relative and meaning is determined by the community of believers?
Okay, what if our community of believers decided it’s good to become cannibals and eat your children? Can that be truth? And what other meaning could it have than a monstrously inhuman atrocity?
And how does the community decide what is good and what is evil? What if their definition of good is at the expense of another community? So, is truth contradictory and convoluted?
Postmodernism only survives in the abstract; it fails miserably in the concrete examples of real life.
While postmodernism did help us take a fresh look at our dogma and interpretations of truth, it doesn’t change the truth nor does it define it. It’s just a Christianized version of mob rule, a classic example of making God in our own cultural image.
Truth, by definition, does not depend on our opinion or whether we agree with it or not.
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insanitybytes22 said:
“And how does the community decide what is good and what is evil?”
What often becomes even more problematic is how they begin to define authority or non authority, because often there is a complete rejection of the very notion. So it is a wide open system where you tend to find the most abusive authoritarianism. Just try not becoming a cannibal and eating your own children, I dare you. Not only do they subjectively begin to define good and evil,they must define and enforce it for you too. 🙂
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hopelessblog said:
This was really interesting to read! nice one 🙂
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theinfiniterally said:
I’m a fan of fairytales. Have you ever read or listened to Chesterton’s Orthodoxy?
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Julie (aka Cookie) said:
that sentence..”The very moment we place all our trust in our own ability to fully understand…” I would add the unexplainable after that—because that’s what it is isn’t—we think we can explain away the unexplainable but therein lies the rub—God, the unexplainable is indeed just that, unexplainable….
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Robert Lambert Jones III said:
Amen – simply, amen.
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mrteague said:
My poetic version of what you’re saying here: https://thevoiceofone.org/2016/09/22/21st-century-faux/
It’s sort of a dark satire of today’s thinking. Thanks for saying it well in prose!
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insanitybytes22 said:
That was quite wonderful. Dark, but true. Thanks for linking to it. 🙂
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Wally Fry said:
My rather simple understanding is that the overriding philosophical thought in post modernism is that nothing can be declared to be absolutely true.
Which, if the declaration of post modernism is that nothing is absolutely true, is in itself an absolutely true statement…..well, I suppose one can see the problem.
But, hey what do I know, right?
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insanitybytes22 said:
LOL! Good point, Wally. If nothing can be true, than post modernism cannot be true either.
And that is exactly how it has played out, too. When everything is subjective, then there are no absolutes. So now we just self identify as whatever we want to be. In which case, all whining should cease immediately since the obvious problem is that you are just self identifying in the wrong direction. Go self identify as a non whiner. 🙂
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Wally Fry said:
Now, that suggestion would make the world better, less whiners. I just don’t get it, how people who say they base their reality only in facts and data, can say there are no absolutes. Facts and data clearly show that there ARE absolutes. Some things simply can’t exist together as all being true. But, again, what do I know? I hang out with too many cave dwellers.
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beholdinghimministries said:
Great post!. I believe that until the Lord returns that we will have one version or the other of self-worship. It will only get worst for man really adores himself. “They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen (Romans 1:25).” 2 Timothy 3, “But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. … 7 always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth. …. so also these teachers oppose the truth. They are men of depraved minds, who, as far as the faith is concerned, are rejected. 9 But they will not get very far because, as in the case of those men, their folly will be clear to everyone. ….evildoers and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. 14 But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of…the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
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