There are quite a lot of us out here, children greatly harmed by the evangelizing atheism of our parents, by agendas that took precedent over natural affection, by world views that actually masked much greater dysfunctions.
Mustard Seed posted the story of a much more famous evangelizing atheist, “Son of Atheist Apostle Madalyn Murray O’Hair became Christian after suffering under her parental treatment”
I am yet another, a child harmed by evangelizing atheism, a child that Jesus Christ pursued, rescued, saved. It’s somewhat comical, I actually feel stalked, but stalked in the best way, stalked by love and mercy and salvation. I have never doubted there was a war for my soul going on.
I have recently come from yet another predictable and repetitive atheist discussion, the one were they like to accuse Christians of abusing and indoctrinating children. I was abused and indoctrinated, but not by Christians. I didn’t even know what Christians were. I did follow one around once when I was about 10. All these years later, I have my doubts he was actually a Christian. He was just a boy with a cross in his ear, often upside down and probably in the wrong ear too. He was a rock star wannabee, likely the kind who would go on to bite the heads off of rats on stage, but I didn’t care, I saw that cross and knew there were others who believed too. He was like my lifeline to another world.
Just the symbolism of the cross can have temendous power, even a cross worn upside down in the wrong ear, by a boy who probably didn’t even care. To this day I am grateful to those who wear crosses, who remind me of all the dark times I have looked up and suddenly there was a cross, reminding me I am not alone.
The truth matters too, and child abuse under evangelizing atheism is a real thing. People deny it, ignore it, pretend they are just molding themselves some reason based kids, but what they are really doing is indoctrinating kids with an incoherant belief system that is devoid of hope. Irrational, illogical, and denies the human experience, the full range of emotions, observations, and experiences. It is a deception, one that will leave you ill prepared for life.
I know there are Christians who abuse kids, too and in someways I am really grateful not to have had that kind of confusion to sort out, a blight that may have tainted my eyes to the truth, that may have caused me to recoil in horror against any suggestion of faith, like many atheists today do. My defiance pushed me towards God, not away from Him.
Just the same, I’m not going to stand for these false accusations, for these labels that try to decry all Christians as harmful to kids, as prone to indoctrinate and brainwash the vulnerable. That’s a lie.
I know the Truth, the Truth is a person, and He can set you free.
So, don’t be shrieking at me about how harmful Christians are, how we all allegedly abuse kids, because I have a thousand tales to tell about what indoctrination and abuse under atheism really looks like. That’s a real thing in the world too, and it begins by placing your own idedology and worldview before and above the well being of your own children.
See, there's this thing called biology... 
my eye balls roll over such nonsense—
sure there are lunies out there who mask themselves under a cloak of Christian Spirituality who are a screw or bolt shy, who are raging nuts trying to raise kids while going whole hog overboard with fanaticism—but here’s the thing…the fanatics, on both sides of the fence, are the exceptions—
Those parents who raise their children in their Christian faith, who base the raising on things like Commandments, which are a pretty sound list of dos and don’ts, as well as the notion of forgiveness, grace, hope, Love….well, I don’t see how that is “indoctrination” but
rather sound parenting if you ask me—
-now excuse me as I go get my eyeballs from rolling around in my head….
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There have been worldwide scandals where established churches have sheltered priests who have long histories of sexual abuse of children. I has happened in Ireland as well as the US and South America.
Others have argued that christianity, when it ‘educates’ children with the notion that Christianity is the only way are abusing trust.
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“There have been worldwide scandals where established churches have sheltered priests who have long histories of sexual abuse of children.”
That is absolutely true. What is ALSO true is that that behavior is NOT taught in God’s Word. Find it, I challenge that.
“Others have argued that christianity, when it ‘educates’ children with the notion that Christianity is the only way are abusing trust.”
Abusing trust? That fails to make sense Essiep. All parents share their world view with their children. Whether you want to admit it or not, so do atheists. I tell you that for parents to NOT teach and share their world view(whatever that may be) is abusing trust. The atheist desire to keep Christian parents from teaching their children is transparent beyond belief and reveals the agenda. Which is strange, given how atheists claim to have a content free sort of thing going on. Here’s a question for you. If atheism is so content free, how come you all say the same five talking points?
LOL
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I don’t mind parents teaching their world view, but I object to states using tax payers money to fund one religion’s ideology.
As for five talking points (lol), what would they be?
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HUH? Ok perhaps I misread. You clearly said
““Others have argued that christianity, when it ‘educates’ children with the notion that Christianity is the only way are abusing trust.”
I apologize for missing your non existent comment LOL. Which, incidentally is probably worthy for inclusion in the rather brief list of militant atheist evangelist talking points!
And what about my first statement from earlier? You seemed to clearly assert that the fact that some perverted priests have abused their positions to take advantage of young boys is somehow proof that religions caused that. I call hogwash on that and challenged you do show me where God’s Word teaches that.
One last question, sorry. Would you mind telling me why you support killing all the intellectuals, religious, and educated, and the forced relocation of city dwellers to collective farms to face starvation?
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Last question… what, did I say that?
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Well no, not exactly. However Pol Pot felt that way. He was an atheist. You are an atheist. I just assumed since one atheist felt that way, all do. Do you see my point here? Now, why don’t you actually address the content of this post instead of dragging it around so you can present your cut and paste talking points. Start here…from the ACTUAL post “Just the same, I’m not going to stand for these false accusations, for these labels that try to decry all Christians as harmful to kids, as prone to indoctrinate and brainwash the vulnerable. That’s a lie.”
See? Easy, right? There was a post here, refute it.
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I still want to know what ‘the five talking points’ are.
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Well, asking the same question over and over to avoid ever having to answer one yourself is one of them.
Now, the post? Let’s stay on task here. Address the content of the post.
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You’re avoiding a question that should be easy to respond to. It’s a fair trade.
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I’m not making trades. This blogger wrote a post. Address the post or frankly you are a colossal waste of time, and I won’t clog up IBs post anymore.
See, this is the problem here, Essiep. You militant atheists evangelist come claiming to want honest discussion, but then fail to actually talk about the topic at hand. News flash…asking Christians question after question and never answering one is not discussion, it’s interrogation. Pass LOL.
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You don’t see the irony in that do you?
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Essiep. Surely somebody who trolls around pretending to be a high falutin intellectual such as you understands what hyperbole is.Good grief. The post? LOL.
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The priests were not true Christians. Beware of the wolves disguised as sheep.
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The problem is ORGANIZED Religion. Everyone should find their own. And they can. But you have to be very quiet (not just in a conventional sense) and listen.
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That’s an interesting point of view M Simon, and perhaps you could share with us all what your source for your “religion” is? If we all just have to be quiet, listen, and find what suits us, then I have to seriously question exactly why “organized” religion is wrong. After all, if I just got quiet and that is what I found, then why on earth is it the “problem?” Based your own self professed belief system, that should be perfectly okay, yet you say it is a problem. I find that quite odd..Now, having said that, it might also be a good time for somebody to actually address the content of this post, rather than using it as a forum to criticize “organized religion.” Unless, of course, you are asserting that organized religion is somehow “the problem” in relation to all child abuse, in which case I reckon you need to get busy backing that up. But, seriously, the post?
Have a blessed day.
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What about celebrities who do not necessarily subscribe to Christianity but nevertheless sexually abuse or have sexually abused children? What about worldwide sex trafficking rings that are not affiliated with a church? What about churches who make it part of their mission to rescue children from sex trafficking and give them shelter? What about the fact that institutionalized abuse does not imply that Christianity or the Bible in itself supports it, but rather evil people will find ways to hide their actions with what they perceive as good?
When parents teach their children anything that doesn’t align with the truth, isn’t that also an abuse of trust? Muslims teach their children that Islam is the only way as well. Atheists may well also teach their children that non-religion is the only way. But the thing is, one of them has to be right, correct? There has to be one truth. Either there is one God or there are many gods, or there are no gods. They cannot all be the same at the same time. Parents should give their children reasons to believe in any one of these things and help them to develop their thinking on this subject. From what I understand, IB did not force her faith on her kids and she did teach them to think for themselves, but I bet she still instilled values within them that reflect her faith. Every time a parent teaches their kid a certain value, that can be seen as “indoctrination,” but really it’s what the parent believes is the best for their kid.
In the end, all children grow up to an age where they can leave their home and go out into the world and discover the truth for themselves, but parents’ directions can give them a good start on it. The existence of Christians who had atheist parents and atheists who had Christian parents prove this.
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” But the thing is, one of them has to be right, correct? ”
Well, no. It is entirely possible (likely even) that they are all wrong. There is no ONE TRUE WAY™.
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Are you sure about that? Let’s consider these possibilities:
Somehow, the universe was created. Developments in the study of the Big Bang show that. If you think long and hard about it, there are really only a few different explanations for our universe and our role in it:
1. The universe was somehow created by nothing out of nothing (i.e. no creator), or it was in fact created by something or Someone, or many someones. This includes a “mechanism” of creation, like a Motherverse of numerous universes as many atheist scientists are looking into. Like it or not, if many universes are being created through some sort of mechanism…that mechanism is, in fact, a creator, as it creates things through incomprehensible processes. Then you may argue as to what the nature of that Creator is, but nevertheless, either there is one or there isn’t one (or many).
2. Either that mechanism of creation, if it exists, cares about us or it doesn’t. If it cares, it is reasonable to assume that it has some sort of personality that we can relate with. In other words, either this creator is amoral and apathetic or moral and compassionate.
3. Either that Creator is One entity or many entities.
4. Either that Creator gives us a reason for the state of our current world, an explanation of evil and good and the meaning of our lives, or nihilism is our fate.
5. Either Jesus died on the cross and He rose again, proving the God of the Bible and prophecy in the Bible, or He didn’t.
These things are absolutes. There are two options in each section, but only one of them can be true. There cannot be both many gods and one God, or both many gods and no God. That is simply cognitive dissonance. So you see, there is in fact ONE TRUE WAY™. Our universe and the laws that govern it deals in absolutes. If I drop my book from my desk, either it falls in accordance with gravity or somehow gravity likes to have its own “off-days.” Seeing as I haven’t heard of anyone jumping off from the Earth with their legs and shooting off into the sky because of an off-day with gravity, I know that the universe deals in absolutes. Even though at the atomic level things can get a bit more freaky, particles tend to react with each other and respond to stimulus in predictable ways governed by their own laws, as well.
Since I’m a math girl, I also know that when math gets complex certain things seem to not be absolute, but in reality there are still rules involved. For example in vector spaces – either a space complies with all of the axioms that define a vector space or it doesn’t, even if it seems weird. In math there are only absolute answers; these answers may be complex or “imaginary” and we may not be able to grasp them, but nevertheless the answers are there and we can use them in concrete, tangible applications. Thus, everything in our universe deals in absolutes. Why should this be different in regards to creation and faith?
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Not surprisingly, Ms. O’hair met a rough end, the kind that God’s Word warns us about.
Before her remains were discovered in the 1990’s, I remember some people still hoping she was off grid somewhere, still cussing like a DNC staffer!
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Somewhat awful, but a bit funny too, one of the first things my mother did when she moved in with us was to tack Ms. O’hair’s picture up on her wall.
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Memi, give your mom a photo of Rachel Maddow and say. “C’mon mom! Get with the times! Here is a fresh “conspicuous complainer”! 😏
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“I know the Truth, the Truth is a person, and He can set you free.” Yes and yes.
I just had a very civil, online conversation the other day about this, and the stereotyping of Christians.
If we all are truly to be open, logical and compassionate human beings, we cannot stereotype anyone or any group of people, nor can we judge an entire group based on what one person does. Christian cannot do this; atheists cannot do this.
We must all have ears to hear – and for us, He is the One who opens our ears.
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My entire family is a bunch of evangelising liberals and neo-cons. Every time I speak about the faith they say that my faith needs to mature or needs to let go of said “unnecessary thing” and every time I hold a position they don’t like, they lament they did not raise me better…
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My Mother (GRHS – God Rest Her Soul) was like that. “How COULD you be a Republican?” But we always parted on good terms when I recalled what my grandpappy (her father) always used to say, (in a thick Eastern European accent) “They are all crooks.”
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Actually, my own mother thinks I’m a Republican. I’m actually a Libertarian. My Neo-Con dad is a Republican. Not certain about my mother…
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Whenever ANY person looks on another in judgment (whether a so-called ‘Christian’ or perceived member of ‘other’ religions) rather than seeking the GOD such persons proclaim loyalty to, ‘true religion’ rather than ‘right relationship’ immediately becomes the topic. As you rightly stated – TRUTH is a PERSON. Alternatively, religions are mere ideologies formed by individual interpretations of the teachings of whatever particular assumptions are believed about ‘my’ GOD.
What is tragically too often overlooked in sharing one’s faith, is that God has NOT created a world inhabited by faulty robots, programed to conform to certain standards and regulations, but prone to failure. His presenting the Law through Moses was to reveal the Righteousness of God, NOT to set a standard of acceptable behavior, but – to show mankind how far superior and beyond a man’s BEST efforts, GOD actually is. Basically to proclaim, “I AM” – you’re NOT.
The plan of God is to establish the Righteousness of God that ONLY God Himself can achieve and maintain – to prove that He is the ONLY true God. In accomplishing THAT, He revealed Himself through Christ and initiated an eternal right-relationship in His believers by His Spirit living perpetually within them, enabling them to perform the good will of God according to HIS purpose.
Atheists claim no belief in God, but false belief in God can be even more dangerous. Many have moved from NO belief to encountering God, while fewer have escaped false religions imposed upon them by family heritage. The notion of conformity to a particular standard of religious convictions (especially when promoted from early childhood to the exception of other more valid teachings) without a proper introduction to the PERSON of Christ the Living God, negates the intentions of God’s plan of salvation. Apart from experiencing a personal encounter with Christ, man is powerless to achieve real righteousness, regardless of the most sincere commitment to religious beliefs.
I find it tragically amusing that the world consensus agrees on the ‘goal’ of any religion is attaining right relationship with God in hopes of some form of comfortable after-life, yet they imagine all methods and paths towards that ‘goal’ as equal. If there are MANY Gods, then such logic is sustainable, but if there is only ONE GOD, by the same logic – there is only ONE WAY to Him.
ONLY Jesus Christ declared regarding Himself to be THE WAY, THE TRUTH, THE LIFE. THAT statement is either true or not, making everything else regarding God, religion, and life thereby accountable relative to the right conclusion.
“I know the Truth, the Truth is a person, and He can set you free.” When rightly acknowledged as a living being, TRUTH has the capability of salvaging captives. Conversely, when TRUTH is perceived as merely a philosophy or ideology, not only is it open to debate,it is powerless to save. anyone. Without the reality of a right relationship with the Living Christ, life is destined to be perceived merely as equally confusing and void of absolutes to everyone – abstract at best.
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Abuse and religion are unrelated. I don’t believe a religion or lack of religion has the claim on abuse.
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Interesting. My parents dropped me off for Sunday School at 6, and picked me me up after Services. 😂 They wanted nothing to do with Church nor Christianity, even after growing up in intensively Christian households. Almost a rebellion in their adulthood.
Luckily for me, they did not press their belief/lack of belief system on me, and I have been fortunate to know of God from a young age because of Him. I have to admit, I have been easily influenced and intrigued by human culture’s various interpretations in the form of world religions, but ultimately, I needed to come to the decision for myself that the human classification of Christianity is what I would call our existence.
To accuse parents of “abuse” by raising children with or without any religion is subjective, since one must consider the general morals and guidelines for beneficial behavior taught in the household. If they generally reflect the same concepts as Christianity’s (which they won’t perfectly, for no human is perfect), is that abusive? I believe children should get to know Christ, but the parents’ choice of their viewpoint cannot necessarily be construed as abusive, in my humble opinion.
My parents’ “atheism” and scientific viewpoints turned out, for me at least, to be congruent, as well as extremely useful in my Bible studies. So given that God always works to good, even abuse, “bad” teachings, or horrible events, serve as “teachable moments” that can add up to valuable lessons later on in life that can help you get closer to understanding God. At least one hopes 😎🤙
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Wow a very powerful point. When I saw your title my first thought was about Mustard Seed’s post on Madalyn Murray O’Hair’s son having a difficult relationship with his mom. Good post.
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I had troublesome parents as well (not for that reason). I got “born again” by a different method.
And that is the beef I have against most religions. “Only we know the true way to salvation.” And from that we get wars of near limitless atrocity (we are in one now).
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https://thinkandthriveblog.wordpress.com/2017/07/12/theism-atheism-a-discussion-on-evidence/
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