From A Cry for Justice, “We Are Thankful for Lundy Bancroft — Just Don’t take Your Theology from Him”
I wish I could communicate with A Cry for Justice. I wish they too, did not perceive me as the enemy. Deaf ears seems to be a common theme for me this week.
So, I am a Christian woman, with a good amount of domestic violence and sexual assault training, once worked for a shelter even. I am not alone, there are hundreds of us. Here’s another one, https://hollytashley.com/restoration-recovery-redemption/.
So it is with some frustration that I note our Christian women often just bypass their sisters, dismiss our wisdom and experience, ignore pastors, and go seeking people like Lundy as their experts. No DV credentials, not even a Christian. Not to be indelicate, but there’s some real red flags there.
I’ve written about this before. Trust your instincts. When you feel compelled to make constant disclaimers like, ” …we do want to remind you that Lundy to our knowledge does not profess to be a Christian and in fact his spiritual beliefs are certainly not something we recommend,” something is speaking to you. There is doubt there. A vague unsettled feeling. The guy you turn to for healing should not have to come with constant warnings and disclaimers.
Barbara speaks of , “The irony…and the shame on the church. It’s ironic that a man who is not a Christian has helped countless Christian victims of abuse more than pastors have.”
Those are harsh and accusing words and I’m not sure how true they are. I’d say it’s really a mixed bag. Many pastors are very aware these days, wonderful resources for healing from abuse. Some are misinformed, unintentionally insensitive, and a few are just downright blind, but there is no grand conspiracy, no “evil, wicked abusers hiding in sheep’s wool” being protected and harbored by the church as a whole.
I share Barbara’s belief that “the church” as a Body, could be doing so much better. Here’s the difference however, I’ve observed it’s really the women who present the largest stumbling block, the biggest wall, not pastors. I have no idea why. In any given congregation you’ve got about 1 in four women and one in six boys intimately acquainted with abuse. You worship alongside people who work with these issues all week-long. You have survivors and people who have spiritually healed, within your very midst.
There’s your resource, there’s your expertise. A whole slew of us untapped, a wealth of information just waiting to be discovered. It makes a lot more sense to me to reach out to those you know, to those who are known, rather than an obscure book author hosting webiners.
Lundy always seems to set up this strange dichotomy, us against them. Pastors, the church, other Christian women, all your enemy. Shut them all out. Listen only to me. Separate, divide, control, isolate. Those people don’t love you, not like I do. Ironically, that’s one of the first signs of abuse.
Scripture is an amazing tool for healing, there are so many passages that promote exactly that. I would love to see people using scripture and theology in the right way too, in the correct context, and to find healing within those pages. That’s what our bible and our Lord has been doing for thousands of years.
Right when I was about to get some other stuff done and now this. I know a little bit about this sketchy outfit.
“I wish they too, did not perceive me as the enemy.”
What is their complaint about you?
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Well, while one half of the world perceives me as a blasphemous artsy liberal Christian, the other half perceives me as a rabid misogynist prone to take the bible as the literal word of God and run about oppressing marginalized groups and promoting abuse.
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isn’t it great? just the way it should be if, indeed, you really are a Christian.
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LOL! Thank you, words of wisdom there.
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Could you be a bit more specific please? 🙂 I have been rather unfavorable impressed with the teaching coming out of “Cry for Justice.”
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Well, simply that I cannot engage, talk with them, post, or comment. I have attempted to speak very gently to numerous people about Lundy and been promptly shut down completely. Banned, kicked out, deleted.
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lots of churches are turning into businesses these days with the ordination issue as well. such to the extent that is becoming common to see a husband and wife “co-pastor” team and there is speak about “gainful employments”.
the egalitarian movement has turned the pastoral mission into an economic industry.
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“Well, simply that I cannot engage, talk with them, post, or comment. I have attempted to speak very gently to numerous people about Lundy and been promptly shut down completely. Banned, kicked out, deleted.”
Are you trying to work with them or just warn them/others about Bancroft? What specifically are you warning about? Have you written about this somewhere? I am not doubting you or trying to fault you. I promise. I simply want to understand your precise differences with them.
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I was simply trying to open up a dialog about Lundy, yes perhaps to warn them or at least to provoke some discussion, some critical thinking. I have written about it before. I’ve also spoken to a couple of pastors and to a couple of people who were really harmed when Lundy was brought in.
There’s nothing elaborate or fancy here, Tiribulus, I just want to speak to people, to urge some caution, to encourage some questioning.
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I wasn’t suggesting there was anything “elaborate or fancy” (whatever that exactly means 🙂 )
Where have you written about this, or them about you?
Be specific. What are you cautions? Is it simply that this man isn’t a believer? Something more?
Is your problem mostly with their recommendation of this fella, or even if they never did, you’d still have problems with them and if so, what are they?
Doggone-it Gabrielle, I’m groping around for some common ground here for Pete’s sake 😀
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LOL! There are simply some things I am not going to speak of in a public forum.
Here’s a link,
http://transitiontoanewworld.blogspot.com/2011/03/new-spiritual-community.html
Here is another post I did and some comments.
https://insanitybytes2.wordpress.com/2016/10/14/can-we-talk-about-lundy-bancroft/
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Memi, make no mistake, you and I are both in Spiritual warfare re: Lundy Bancroft. Bancroft is a 2 Timothy 3 deceiver who has wormed his way into the homes of many gullible women, Barbara Roberts in particular. In my family’s struggle I believe that I am closer to taking Bancroft down at a national level, Lord Willing. Please pray for this. More info to come.
🔥☀🕊
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Whatsa “Memi.” 😀
And thank for THIS Gabrielle. I am glad to see it.
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Your point with the churches not using the experts to their advantage goes beyond abuse. It involves all areas.
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“There’s your resource, there’s your expertise. A whole slew of us untapped, a wealth of information just waiting to be discovered.”
Exactly. I think one of the problem is that pastors are propped up as the “holy man,” the all-in-one ministry expert with all the gifts of the Spirit operating at the same time answer machine! That’s Jesus, btw. 🙂 When the answer to a lot of these issues of life are probably latent somewhere else in the body. I tell my congregation that if you have to rely on me to do everything we’re in sad shape! There are so many other people who can do certain things better than me right in our church family. Of course, some of this is our fault for not empowering the body properly, not valuing other people’s gifts, or too afraid somebody else might do something better.
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Memi, James 3 below, outlines the problems with Lundy Bancroft and “A Cry for Justice”. Their “wisdom” is earthly and demonic, it does not come down from Heaven.
This link is where “A Cry for Justice” presumes to curse ministries like “Focus on the Family” all the while claiming that they are not cursing these Christian ministires.
https://cryingoutforjustice.com/acfj-hall-of-blind-guides-resources-that-will-not-help-abuse-victims/christian-authors-and-ministries/
James 3
10 Out of the same mouth come praise and cursing. My brothers and sisters, this should not be. 11 Can both fresh water and salt water flow from the same spring? 12 My brothers and sisters, can a fig tree bear olives, or a grapevine bear figs? Neither can a salt spring produce fresh water.
13 Who is wise and understanding among you? Let them show it by their good life, by deeds done in the humility that comes from wisdom. 14 But if you harbor bitter envy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast about it or deny the truth. 15 Such “wisdom” does not come down from heaven but is earthly, unspiritual, demonic. 16 For where you have envy and selfish ambition, there you find disorder and every evil practice.
17 But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere. 18 Peacemakers who sow in peace reap a harvest of righteousness.
Here is an amazon review exceprt of Lundy Bancroft’s book, that explains Bancroft’s method of deceit:
ByJimAtLargeon November 2, 2010
Format: Paperback
“If you are a woman who has always gotten your way before but not so much lately, this is the book to bring order into your life. Proper order with you as the star, your man as an unredeemable monster. This book lays out all the essentials.
First you need a perspective that allows for nothing negative about the past, present, or future to ever be attributed to you. That of course requires a bad guy to take all of the blame for everything for all time. This book provides both by a clever, if simplistic, model of human relationships as evil abuser and innocent victim. I know you are thinking ‘But what if my guy turns the tables on me and names all the ways I have mistreated, manipulated, and humiliated him?’ Not to worry, this book simply defines ‘real’ abusers as men and ‘real’ abuse victims as women. No escape for him, no messy realities for her.
Of course the topic of abuse is a serious one and we would all find a lot of common ground in any abuse discussion if everyone knew what ‘real abuse’ was. This author cleverly blurs any such understanding with his wide open lists that make a man with two interruptions and a stressed voice look the same as an abusive psychopath and just as essential to dispose of.
Here is how he manages this: Bancroft lists nearly all possible actions a man may do and calls them things an abuser may do. Things to watch out for. Every slightly less than ideal act or comment, and most neutral and even what are normally positive actions that every man and woman does in all kinds of normal relationships.
But this author tells women that ‘if your man does these things then he may be an abuser’. Genius! Now every woman can instantly label her man as a man of abusive behaviors. The author also broad brush paints as abusers any who have committed abusive acts (like interrupting or failing to hold his voice in what she calls polite tones, ).
Finally, here is a link to the site of a woman who lost her sister to the Charlatan “abuse” deceit of Lundy Bancroft:
https://exposegcm.wordpress.com/2013/02/09/why-does-he-do-that-by-lundy-bancroft/
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Oh, and Memi, you can get in touch with Jeff Crippen of “A Cry for Justice” directly.
Here is his contact info for his church in Tillamook Oregon:
Christ Reformation Church
7450 Alderbrook Rd. Tillamook, OR 97141
Worship 10:45AM
Family Sunday School 9:30AM
503-842-8317 (Church)
503-801-0709 (Cell)
Crippen, Jeff
http://www.christreformationchurch.com/
Here is Jeff Crippen’s A cry for Justice email address:
Jeff Crippen (administrator)
swordtrowel@gmail.com
I have emailed Jeff Crippen about Lundy Bancroft being a cult founder, and predictably, Jeff Crippen never responded.
Jeff and barb are too invested in Lundy Bancroft, and are too invested in being wrong.
Romans 1:25 below explains Jeff and Barb’s behavior, their love and thanks for Lundy Bancroft and ultimately their refusal to obey the simple Word of God about the requirement of witness when calling out the faults of others.
Because they are deceived by Lundy Bancroft, Jeff and Barb think they know it all, but they do not.
Jeff and Barb idolize Lundy Bancroft, and dishonor God in their idolizing of Lundy Bancroft.
Romans 1
25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
Memi, I would expect any email you sent Jeff Crippen to be ignored.
If you phoned him, I would not be surprised if he yelled at you.
I have never called Jeff Crippen.
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I hear y0u, A-dad. I’m listening.
When I started this, I quite naively thought it would all be a simple matter of just saying “Hi, can we talk?”
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Romans 1
21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools
We do have to wonder about alleged christians who go out of their way to “thank” Lundy Bancroft. If you search “A Cry for Justice” for “Thank God”, there are no hits, but if you search “Thank Lundy bancroft”, you get the post that this post is about.
Luke 13:34
“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing.
“It takes a Jerusalem to kill a prophet.”
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Pingback: Things I have read on the internet – 63 | clydeherrin
Having encountered Lundy Bancroft’s work before, I was interested to see your views. The article you reference on the site “Crying Out for Justice” adds evidence to my belief that its founder(s?) and contributors are extremely confused. Interestingly enough, that article is no longer on the site. I think its removal is significant, suggesting the site “owners” realized the problems it caused to the discerning reader (although they likely have very few of those for long). Reading the article on Google cache (I may place it on my blog for others to find), I see no published comments that would appear to provide incentive to remove it.
The article and its removal adds further reason for me to consider that site to be dangerous to Christians and their marriages.
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Huh, they removed it? Fascinating.
One problem I have with Lundy is that he has a way of convincing women that EVERYTHING is abuse and that there is something wrong with you if you don’t see it. Anyone feeling distressed,emotional, frustrated,is probably going to be unable to discern and rationalize what he’s saying. Socks left on the floor, rather than being careless,become evidence of contempt and psychological abuse. Ironically,some of the tactics he uses really are psychological abuse and very exploitative.
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Hey Memi! Barb Roberts just posted to me on the TGC blog “Beware of Broken Wolves”.
Perhaps you could go over there and talk some sense to her as well!🕊🔥🔨. 😏👍
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I read that article, A-dad. I’m still trying to process it all. Not quite sure what is actually being said there.
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