From A Cry for Justice, “We Are Thankful for Lundy Bancroft — Just Don’t take Your Theology from Him”
I wish I could communicate with A Cry for Justice. I wish they too, did not perceive me as the enemy. Deaf ears seems to be a common theme for me this week.
So, I am a Christian woman, with a good amount of domestic violence and sexual assault training, once worked for a shelter even. I am not alone, there are hundreds of us. Here’s another one, https://hollytashley.com/restoration-recovery-redemption/.
So it is with some frustration that I note our Christian women often just bypass their sisters, dismiss our wisdom and experience, ignore pastors, and go seeking people like Lundy as their experts. No DV credentials, not even a Christian. Not to be indelicate, but there’s some real red flags there.
I’ve written about this before. Trust your instincts. When you feel compelled to make constant disclaimers like, ” …we do want to remind you that Lundy to our knowledge does not profess to be a Christian and in fact his spiritual beliefs are certainly not something we recommend,” something is speaking to you. There is doubt there. A vague unsettled feeling. The guy you turn to for healing should not have to come with constant warnings and disclaimers.
Barbara speaks of , “The irony…and the shame on the church. It’s ironic that a man who is not a Christian has helped countless Christian victims of abuse more than pastors have.”
Those are harsh and accusing words and I’m not sure how true they are. I’d say it’s really a mixed bag. Many pastors are very aware these days, wonderful resources for healing from abuse. Some are misinformed, unintentionally insensitive, and a few are just downright blind, but there is no grand conspiracy, no “evil, wicked abusers hiding in sheep’s wool” being protected and harbored by the church as a whole.
I share Barbara’s belief that “the church” as a Body, could be doing so much better. Here’s the difference however, I’ve observed it’s really the women who present the largest stumbling block, the biggest wall, not pastors. I have no idea why. In any given congregation you’ve got about 1 in four women and one in six boys intimately acquainted with abuse. You worship alongside people who work with these issues all week-long. You have survivors and people who have spiritually healed, within your very midst.
There’s your resource, there’s your expertise. A whole slew of us untapped, a wealth of information just waiting to be discovered. It makes a lot more sense to me to reach out to those you know, to those who are known, rather than an obscure book author hosting webiners.
Lundy always seems to set up this strange dichotomy, us against them. Pastors, the church, other Christian women, all your enemy. Shut them all out. Listen only to me. Separate, divide, control, isolate. Those people don’t love you, not like I do. Ironically, that’s one of the first signs of abuse.
Scripture is an amazing tool for healing, there are so many passages that promote exactly that. I would love to see people using scripture and theology in the right way too, in the correct context, and to find healing within those pages. That’s what our bible and our Lord has been doing for thousands of years.
Right when I was about to get some other stuff done and now this. I know a little bit about this sketchy outfit.
“I wish they too, did not perceive me as the enemy.”
What is their complaint about you?
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Well, while one half of the world perceives me as a blasphemous artsy liberal Christian, the other half perceives me as a rabid misogynist prone to take the bible as the literal word of God and run about oppressing marginalized groups and promoting abuse.
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isn’t it great? just the way it should be if, indeed, you really are a Christian.
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LOL! Thank you, words of wisdom there.
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Could you be a bit more specific please? 🙂 I have been rather unfavorable impressed with the teaching coming out of “Cry for Justice.”
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Well, simply that I cannot engage, talk with them, post, or comment. I have attempted to speak very gently to numerous people about Lundy and been promptly shut down completely. Banned, kicked out, deleted.
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lots of churches are turning into businesses these days with the ordination issue as well. such to the extent that is becoming common to see a husband and wife “co-pastor” team and there is speak about “gainful employments”.
the egalitarian movement has turned the pastoral mission into an economic industry.
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“Well, simply that I cannot engage, talk with them, post, or comment. I have attempted to speak very gently to numerous people about Lundy and been promptly shut down completely. Banned, kicked out, deleted.”
Are you trying to work with them or just warn them/others about Bancroft? What specifically are you warning about? Have you written about this somewhere? I am not doubting you or trying to fault you. I promise. I simply want to understand your precise differences with them.
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I was simply trying to open up a dialog about Lundy, yes perhaps to warn them or at least to provoke some discussion, some critical thinking. I have written about it before. I’ve also spoken to a couple of pastors and to a couple of people who were really harmed when Lundy was brought in.
There’s nothing elaborate or fancy here, Tiribulus, I just want to speak to people, to urge some caution, to encourage some questioning.
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I wasn’t suggesting there was anything “elaborate or fancy” (whatever that exactly means 🙂 )
Where have you written about this, or them about you?
Be specific. What are you cautions? Is it simply that this man isn’t a believer? Something more?
Is your problem mostly with their recommendation of this fella, or even if they never did, you’d still have problems with them and if so, what are they?
Doggone-it Gabrielle, I’m groping around for some common ground here for Pete’s sake 😀
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LOL! There are simply some things I am not going to speak of in a public forum.
Here’s a link,
http://transitiontoanewworld.blogspot.com/2011/03/new-spiritual-community.html
Here is another post I did and some comments.
https://insanitybytes2.wordpress.com/2016/10/14/can-we-talk-about-lundy-bancroft/
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Memi, make no mistake, you and I are both in Spiritual warfare re: Lundy Bancroft. Bancroft is a 2 Timothy 3 deceiver who has wormed his way into the homes of many gullible women, Barbara Roberts in particular. In my family’s struggle I believe that I am closer to taking Bancroft down at a national level, Lord Willing. Please pray for this. More info to come.
🔥☀🕊
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Whatsa “Memi.” 😀
And thank for THIS Gabrielle. I am glad to see it.
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Your point with the churches not using the experts to their advantage goes beyond abuse. It involves all areas.
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“There’s your resource, there’s your expertise. A whole slew of us untapped, a wealth of information just waiting to be discovered.”
Exactly. I think one of the problem is that pastors are propped up as the “holy man,” the all-in-one ministry expert with all the gifts of the Spirit operating at the same time answer machine! That’s Jesus, btw. 🙂 When the answer to a lot of these issues of life are probably latent somewhere else in the body. I tell my congregation that if you have to rely on me to do everything we’re in sad shape! There are so many other people who can do certain things better than me right in our church family. Of course, some of this is our fault for not empowering the body properly, not valuing other people’s gifts, or too afraid somebody else might do something better.
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Memi, James 3 below, outlines the problems with Lundy Bancroft and “A Cry for Justice”. Their “wisdom” is earthly and demonic, it does not come down from Heaven.
This link is where “A Cry for Justice” presumes to curse ministries like “Focus on the Family” all the while claiming that they are not cursing these Christian ministires.
https://cryingoutforjustice.com/acfj-hall-of-blind-guides-resources-that-will-not-help-abuse-victims/christian-authors-and-ministries/
James 3
10 Out of the same mouth come praise and cursing. My brothers and sisters, this should not be. 11 Can both fresh water and salt water flow from the same spring? 12 My brothers and sisters, can a fig tree bear olives, or a grapevine bear figs? Neither can a salt spring produce fresh water.
13 Who is wise and understanding among you? Let them show it by their good life, by deeds done in the humility that comes from wisdom. 14 But if you harbor bitter envy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast about it or deny the truth. 15 Such “wisdom” does not come down from heaven but is earthly, unspiritual, demonic. 16 For where you have envy and selfish ambition, there you find disorder and every evil practice.
17 But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere. 18 Peacemakers who sow in peace reap a harvest of righteousness.
Here is an amazon review exceprt of Lundy Bancroft’s book, that explains Bancroft’s method of deceit:
ByJimAtLargeon November 2, 2010
Format: Paperback
“If you are a woman who has always gotten your way before but not so much lately, this is the book to bring order into your life. Proper order with you as the star, your man as an unredeemable monster. This book lays out all the essentials.
First you need a perspective that allows for nothing negative about the past, present, or future to ever be attributed to you. That of course requires a bad guy to take all of the blame for everything for all time. This book provides both by a clever, if simplistic, model of human relationships as evil abuser and innocent victim. I know you are thinking ‘But what if my guy turns the tables on me and names all the ways I have mistreated, manipulated, and humiliated him?’ Not to worry, this book simply defines ‘real’ abusers as men and ‘real’ abuse victims as women. No escape for him, no messy realities for her.
Of course the topic of abuse is a serious one and we would all find a lot of common ground in any abuse discussion if everyone knew what ‘real abuse’ was. This author cleverly blurs any such understanding with his wide open lists that make a man with two interruptions and a stressed voice look the same as an abusive psychopath and just as essential to dispose of.
Here is how he manages this: Bancroft lists nearly all possible actions a man may do and calls them things an abuser may do. Things to watch out for. Every slightly less than ideal act or comment, and most neutral and even what are normally positive actions that every man and woman does in all kinds of normal relationships.
But this author tells women that ‘if your man does these things then he may be an abuser’. Genius! Now every woman can instantly label her man as a man of abusive behaviors. The author also broad brush paints as abusers any who have committed abusive acts (like interrupting or failing to hold his voice in what she calls polite tones, ).
Finally, here is a link to the site of a woman who lost her sister to the Charlatan “abuse” deceit of Lundy Bancroft:
https://exposegcm.wordpress.com/2013/02/09/why-does-he-do-that-by-lundy-bancroft/
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Oh, and Memi, you can get in touch with Jeff Crippen of “A Cry for Justice” directly.
Here is his contact info for his church in Tillamook Oregon:
Christ Reformation Church
7450 Alderbrook Rd. Tillamook, OR 97141
Worship 10:45AM
Family Sunday School 9:30AM
503-842-8317 (Church)
503-801-0709 (Cell)
Crippen, Jeff
http://www.christreformationchurch.com/
Here is Jeff Crippen’s A cry for Justice email address:
Jeff Crippen (administrator)
swordtrowel@gmail.com
I have emailed Jeff Crippen about Lundy Bancroft being a cult founder, and predictably, Jeff Crippen never responded.
Jeff and barb are too invested in Lundy Bancroft, and are too invested in being wrong.
Romans 1:25 below explains Jeff and Barb’s behavior, their love and thanks for Lundy Bancroft and ultimately their refusal to obey the simple Word of God about the requirement of witness when calling out the faults of others.
Because they are deceived by Lundy Bancroft, Jeff and Barb think they know it all, but they do not.
Jeff and Barb idolize Lundy Bancroft, and dishonor God in their idolizing of Lundy Bancroft.
Romans 1
25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
Memi, I would expect any email you sent Jeff Crippen to be ignored.
If you phoned him, I would not be surprised if he yelled at you.
I have never called Jeff Crippen.
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I hear y0u, A-dad. I’m listening.
When I started this, I quite naively thought it would all be a simple matter of just saying “Hi, can we talk?”
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Romans 1
21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools
We do have to wonder about alleged christians who go out of their way to “thank” Lundy Bancroft. If you search “A Cry for Justice” for “Thank God”, there are no hits, but if you search “Thank Lundy bancroft”, you get the post that this post is about.
Luke 13:34
“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing.
“It takes a Jerusalem to kill a prophet.”
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Having encountered Lundy Bancroft’s work before, I was interested to see your views. The article you reference on the site “Crying Out for Justice” adds evidence to my belief that its founder(s?) and contributors are extremely confused. Interestingly enough, that article is no longer on the site. I think its removal is significant, suggesting the site “owners” realized the problems it caused to the discerning reader (although they likely have very few of those for long). Reading the article on Google cache (I may place it on my blog for others to find), I see no published comments that would appear to provide incentive to remove it.
The article and its removal adds further reason for me to consider that site to be dangerous to Christians and their marriages.
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Huh, they removed it? Fascinating.
One problem I have with Lundy is that he has a way of convincing women that EVERYTHING is abuse and that there is something wrong with you if you don’t see it. Anyone feeling distressed,emotional, frustrated,is probably going to be unable to discern and rationalize what he’s saying. Socks left on the floor, rather than being careless,become evidence of contempt and psychological abuse. Ironically,some of the tactics he uses really are psychological abuse and very exploitative.
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Hey Memi! Barb Roberts just posted to me on the TGC blog “Beware of Broken Wolves”.
Perhaps you could go over there and talk some sense to her as well!🕊🔥🔨. 😏👍
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I read that article, A-dad. I’m still trying to process it all. Not quite sure what is actually being said there.
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I would possibly speak to you about this topic (survivor, person who has benefited from Bancroft’s books on parenting with an abuser, Christian). But please slow down your words and live with this fact, let it sit in your awareness for a few days: Nearly half of all murdered women are killed by their romantic partners.
As a Christian and survivor, I can also tell you that the church’s response to domestic abuse has unintentionally increased risk in the majority of circumstances, mainly because pastors are not educated on this topic and don’t recognize it when it comes before them. Many abused women do not self-identify. Many bring abuse to their faith leader and disclose there first. Abusive men make up somewhere from 8 – 20% of the population of men, but many are experts at using “social currency” to fool those in places of power. Yes, they will use Scripture, the church, the family of their victim, their child’s school teachers. These men don’t present as monsters. The abuser in my life was a Sunday school teacher, and a baseball coach. The abuser walks the world as two selves, and this tactic isolates and helps keep quiet the abused partner. If he has means, he donates big to altruistic or faith-based causes. He volunteers his time. He works very, very hard at his image. His other self will rarely if ever be seen except by his romantic partner. It is very frightening and very isolating to live in the space where those who pray with you cannot see this, and there are few words to describe it. Many women are questioning their sanity half the time because this is a crazy-making space to live.
The typical things that help couples and support Christian centered marriage counseling will often harm victims when abuse is present. Things that may not be advised for regular marital counseling are actually life-saving. Sometimes, information can’t be given to an abuser. Sometimes, it keeps you and your children alive. Counseling, Christian or otherwise, is about sharing, being vulnerable. But this is very dangerous when abuse is present. And pastors are typically not trained to ask the right questions. Churches are made up of human beings. They don’t turn human beings away, so this issue lives in the church as much as outside it. We can point to times that pastors have been supportive, and learn from those. But we can also and must learn from the lack of education that presents a risk to those living in this dynamic.
Start to pay attention to women killed by their husband / fiancee/ ex-husband / ex-fiancee, boyfriend, ex-boyfriend…when you set limits or say “no” to an abuser, you are at greater risk. When you ask questions that probe past the image, you are at greater risk. When you don’t know that you are with an abuser (as many women do not) you do what the pastor recommends, and you are at greater risk.
Dr. Tammy O’Neal
Shan’aan Watts, her daughters, and her son
Aisha Fraser
These are recent lives lost, and in a month there will be more and new names to add on.
What Bancroft brings: He has worked for 30 years with abusive men. It is his work, and the many versions of abusers he has sat with, that draws survivors to his books. For many, it is the first time that language and examples—that are so similar or the same as what they are living—are given. Many were referred by trained domestic advocates and people who work to ensure that women are not killed or harmed by their abuser.
Please… slow down when making these assessments. If you want to learn more, read about coercive control; about the abusive mindset. The journey is long and for many of us, it will take our entire lives working to be safe, trying to ensure that we are not the next name splashed across a headline for a few days before another woman takes our place. Half of all murdered women. Not a joke, not a theory. If a book with facts and support can help keep some of us alive, maybe we can use our remaining time to support and educate the faith leaders on how to improve their response.
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T,
Lundy is worse than a blind guide, he is an evil and deliberate deceiver. He takes advantage of hurting women for his own personal gain.
To be against Bancroft is to protect women.
2 Timothy 3
3 But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.
6 They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over gullible women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, 7 always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth. 8 Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so also these teachers oppose the truth. They are men of depraved minds, who, as far as the faith is concerned, are rejected. 9 But they will not get very far because, as in the case of those men, their folly will be clear to everyone.
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