Something a bit amusing, a trifle really, but God asked me to disengage from a situation, sit on my hands, duct tape my mouth, however you wish to put it. I’m pretty good at listening to God, at least after He clearly indicates His will half a dozen times and I begin to recognize the wisdom there.
There are many situations I don’t know how to respond to, that I have to turn to God for and ask for His guidance, His leadership. What’s His will for the situation and what’s His will for me? Sometimes they are two different things. Sometimes His will for me is to just disengage, stand by, and be quiet. Not my favorite thing to do by far, but God is quite a bit wiser than me.
Conversations with God can make some people nervous and I totally empathize there. What if that crazy woman is just eating bad pizza and hearing voices? But it isn’t like that at all. God always confirms His word in half a dozen ways and we are speaking of rather simple things here. To engage or to disengage, to speak up or to stand down.
So someone asked me why I was not engaged, and so I said, “Well, God said to back off.” So preceded this somewhat comical discussion where my friend promptly declared, “God never said that.” I was surprised so I said, “Did you ask Him?”
He never asked Him. Not to put too fine of a point on it, but how can you possibly know what God said or didn’t say to me if you don’t ask Him yourself?
The whole conversation was rather comical in the sense that a part of me recognizes how crazy it all sounds, especially to someone who is more concrete, their feet more firmly planted in the natural world. God speaks to all us in our own language, in a way we can understand, but there is simply no way around it, spiritual matters must be somewhat discerned by the heart. His Word is pretty concrete, some trusted advisors around you can be pretty tangible, but you simply have to talk to God too, also sometimes known as prayer. You have to talk and you have to learn to listen.
I use to tell my kids sometimes, “Have you talked to your Father about it?” At the time I often meant their earthly father, but the same idea applies to your heavenly Father. Have you talked to your Father about it? Did you ask Him?
See, there's this thing called biology... 
Intriguing post. What dozen ways did he share his message? How do you distinguish these ‘messages’ from the tricky devil, from random occurrences or from your own confirmation bias seeing things you want to see? Is this why there are 42,000 Christian denominations?
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“How do you distinguish these ‘messages’ from the tricky devil..”
My sheep know my voice. So you build a relationship with God, get into His word, and learn His nature. That’s how you are able to discern His voice from others.
“Is this why there are 42,000 Christian denominations?”
I’d say about 39,000 of those “denominations” all have unity in Jesus Christ. I can talk to a believer halfway across the world, different culture, different back grounds, and we will still have unity in Christ, we will still be speaking the same spiritual language.
Ha! Or I could just go down the road and visit the Baptists and the biggest conflict we’re going to have is their propensity to overfeed me. 🙂
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Actually, Violet has a good point…how does one even know the voice they hear (in prayer) is God’s?
The only people who can truly say they recognize the actual, audible voice of Jesus are dead. The rest of us have his “voice”, his message, his words in Scripture alone.
That’s why one of the solas of the Reformation is sola scriptura – that God’s voice for us today is found in Scripture ALONE.
And honestly, I can’t find anything in Scripture where we are commanded to seek His voice apart from the scriptures, but I sure see lots of warnings about the dangers of seeking to find Him outside of His revealed Word.
Over and over we have warnings that the heart is a wicked and deceitful thing, and because I believe all of scripture, I take these things seriously. The last place I would look for God to speak to me would be within my own heart!
Scripture is the one and only place that we are promised we may find our Lord’s voice for us. Can God work apart from these means? Yes, of course. But it is the only place where we have God’s promise attached to it. And, frankly, that’s what I’m going with ☺
Look, I know this is a provocative thing to say, but the idea that God speaks to us personally, apart from the Word, is a distinctively AMERICAN Christian idea.
But as to whether it’s a biblical idea…sorry, gotta disagree there.
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I think IB’s answer is perfect–the sheep know the Shepherd’s voice. But I’ll be honest, antivan, I am skeptical of most “heard God’s voice” statements. Except, I’ve experienced His words to me.
Most of the time, I’d say He speaks to me through circumstances. I’ve had the occasion when 12 (OK, exaggeration to fit IB’s number 😉 )completely unrelated sources all point to the same thing, and I have to conclude, God is telling me something here.
I’ve also had the “suggestion,” a strong imprint in my mind, that I should do or not do, say or not say. I don’t always know if those are from God or if they are related to a logical assumption given the set of circumstances.
But I’ve also had a couple times that were like shouts. I mean really, forcefully. The most notable was when I was reporting for our local newspaper on high school sports. I had a playoff game and left as soon as possible. I was about half way to my car when the shout was, Check for your notebook. I’d just had my notebook. Why should I stop and look in my bag for it? About two steps and the same shout–Check for your notebook! OK, OK, I don’t see the point, but I checked. And I didn’t have it. I’d set it down in the press box and left it there. Had to fight the flow of traffic and go back to retrieve it. I would never have been able to write the story without it.
The bottom line, I think, is that God gave believers His Holy Spirit. Why would we think He is with us, and in us, if He is to remain silent?
Of course He never countermands Scripture. NEVER. But Scripture doesn’t speak to whether or not I need to check my bag to see if I have my notes.
God cares for us. Loves us. Why should He not want to be involved in our daily stuff? Why should I not ask Him about the mundane as well as the major? Why should we think He’s only interested in guiding us into right theology?
Yes, sola scriptura when we’re talking about God revealing something about salvation or His person. But we do have the Holy Spirit. I don’t want to ignore Him, because that same “scriptura” informs me that it’s possible to quench the Holy Spirit.
I actually want to hear from God more than I do, but I also think I ignore Him a lot more than I should, thinking, oh, that’s probably just my own silly idea. Until later, and I wish I’d acted on what at the time seemed like a random thought and not necessary.
If we don’t expect to hear from God, we won’t. If we don’t ask Him, He likely won’t speak into our hearts.
Becky
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I get what you’re saying, Becky. But I think you’re assuming that the quenching of the Spirit that you speak of occurs within the theatre of the heart. We ignore the Spirit when we reject the Word that has been given to us, the only place where the promises of God are objectively found.
Again, I don’t find Scriptural support to the idea that we can find truth or know God’s will for us apart from the Scriptures. The Holy Spirit can and does *confirm* God’s will for us, but not apart from that which is already revealed in Scripture. How would we even know that it is God’s will that we pray to Him, if He hadn’t already revealed it to us in his Word?
For me, it’s not about not trusting that God can speak to me, It’s about me not being able to trust that *I* can distinguish His voice from my own deceitful heart.
I honestly don’t feel like I’m missing out. I take great comfort in the fact that Christ intercedes for me unceasingly, because we have the promise that whatever Jesus asks of the Father will be granted. I absolutely love that God says, “even though my Son is already praying for exactly what you need, which I promise to give whether you ask for it or not, I would love it if you would still come before me and pray too”!
I have never understood prayer to be a two-way conversation, at least, not in the sense that I am the initiator and God is the responder in the conversation. I understand it to be the other way around – that God first comes to us in His Word and we, in faith respond, returning His Word upon Him, reminding Him of his great promises to us and asking Him to keep them with us. That’s the rhythm of prayer. Even when I approach Him in doubt, at the same time I’m approaching Him in full confidence of the Spirit, who comforts and encourages me, and Jesus, who intercedes on my behalf.
All that being said, I acknowledge that I’m going against the grain here. 😀 It’s a different way of looking at prayer and understanding what’s happening in prayer. That’s probably at the heart of our differences. We probably each bring different assumptions about what happens in prayer to the table with us.
Interesting discussion though!
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Becky gave a really good answer, anitivan, one I agree with.
I was laughing reading your comment though, because I was just talking to someone, a Lutheran, about sola scriptura and thinking, I should write a whole post about this very subject. 🙂
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That is kinda funny!
I gotta ask…is this something that you would interpret as God speaking to you or confirming His specific will for you?
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antivan, I don’t think we see prayer in an entirely different way. I just think I also have the freedom to bring my questions and needs to the Father (initiating as well as responding). Jesus did that very thing in the Garden. He even had Scripture that indicated He would have to suffer and die, and yet He still asked not to. Was He wrong to ask that the cup of suffering pass from Him? Not at all. Same thing when He blessed the loaves He used to feed the 5000—He didn’t have Scripture to say, This is what you are to do. My point is, we may not have a command in Scripture to listen to the Holy Spirit (though I think we do—I see nothing in the verse about quenching the Spirit that would indicate it’s referring only to the objective truth revealed in the Bible. The Bible and the Spirit are not the same!), but we have examples.
We also have Paul’s statement in Rom. 8 that the Spirit helps our weakness, interceding for us with “groaning too deep for words.” That gives me great freedom to pray about the things that are on my heart, knowing that God will hear and answer according to His will.
You know, that also reminds me of a verse in James, when he was speaking about quarrels. He said we believers fight and quarrel because we don’t ask. And we ask and don’t receive because we ask with wrong motives, “to spend it on our pleasures.” Seems to me, the passage is telling us precisely that we should ask for what we want/need, and that would include wisdom to know how to answer a person, in person or in writing. As well as a host of other things.
How do I know if it’s God or if it’s me? If I ask, believing that He hears and answers, I don’t need to sort through what parts are from me and what parts are from God. Any wisdom there is from God, given by His Holy Spirit in answer to prayer.
And yes, I agree—interesting discussion! 😀
Becky
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Ha violet too funny. Care to document your 42 thousand groups or have you believed the gullibility of others?
That said, it appears that’s a whole lot of ‘groups’ trying to get it right.
By the way, a ‘grape juice’ crowd, versus a ‘wine’ crowd in regard to the last supper………hardly describes a denomination, much to the chagrin and shortsightedness of dunces. So your 42k was just reduced to 41k………..see how it works?
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Well said,Colorstorm. I was just thinking about 39,000 of those denominations are all on the same page when it comes to unity in Jesus Christ. All the rest is just details, background noise. 🙂
I really don’t know what the actual number is, but you subtract a few crazy cultians, a few false prophets, and what you’re left with is still a pretty solid foundation.
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I like your answer to Violet.
There is an agreeableness, a purity of recognizing truth that is as sweet as the scent of a beloved flower, that Lily of the valley even………
It is that quiet familiarity of knowing scripture, God, and His ways, which are revealed in that settled still small voice of confirmation and delight.
The wisdom of God is quite the prize as you said msb.
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Great post. In situations where there is a clear right and wrong, it’s easy to know God’s Will because it is outlined in His Word and written on our hearts. But in all of those gray areas of non-moral decisions and the nuances of daily life, it can be more challenging – firstly, to want to ask God what he thinks (sometimes we don’t want to know the answer) and secondly, to live out adherence to what we hear God speak. Something I’m learning to do is to check my motives. They are often the clearest indicator of what action to take — choosing the one where Love and Truth collide.
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You make a really good point about understanding our own motives. We have to know ourselves, to thy ownself be true. When we have some self awareness, it becomes much easier to understand, “this is my will and this is God’s will.” Sometimes they are aligned, but not always.
I was just thinking marriage is a bit like that, too. It’s really helpful if you know your own self because then you can go,yep this is totally me getting in the way here. Or maybe not, maybe it’s him, in which case you know not to pick it up, not to take it on yourself. 🙂
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It is kind of funny how saying, “God spoke to me….” can leave others looking at you cross-eyed. No, I am not hearing voices. There is just that ‘knowing’ when you spend time in prayer and reading scripture. Like a soul whisper.
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Lovely words, “a soul whisper,” I like that.
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It’s the mundane things of life that get to me. We all have different roles, but God can help us clarify which one is best suited to us. Sometimes the role changes too as we grow in faith and we’re given more responsibilities. But at the end of the day you’re still supposed to be witnessing, kneeling before Christ, and going out and loving people. Christians as whole, we’re generally headed in the same direction, but we’re each handed different circumstances, contexts, and roles; really like a living body, come to think of it. 🙂
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Well said. 🙂
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Great post and most of the comments! Especially love “soul whisperer!” By my dear sister in Christ!
In my teens, I was so confused about life! How I wanted the Lord to clearly tell me what to do….while I was living life large, out of church, fellowship and not in His Word! Then one day His spoke loud and clear, through two earthly angels! Needless to say, it still took me a decade plus to live life for Him, get into church and fellowship but most importantly, in to His Word!!! Works every time! Well, as long as my heart motives are pure and I want to hear the Lord’s voice!
Here is my post about ONE time I asked Him: https://lifetimeofforgiveness.wordpress.com/2016/12/24/he-saved-my-life/
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Ask Him? Why THAT presupposes He exists, communicates on a personal level, cares about us, and is not too busy to answer. All of course consistent with what is shared here and in James chapter 1.
Another Scriptural narrative comes to mind –
“The chief priests and the scribes, together with the elders, confronted Him and spoke to Him, saying, “Tell us, by what authority are You doing these things? Or who is he who gave You this authority?” But Jesus answered and said to them, “I also will ask you one thing, and answer Me: The baptism of John—was it from heaven or from men?” And they reasoned among themselves, saying, “If we say, ‘From heaven,’ He will say, ‘Why then did you not believe him?’ But if we say, ‘From men,’ all the people will stone us, for they are persuaded that John was a prophet.” So they answered that they did not know where it was from. So Jesus said to them, “Neither will I tell you by what authority I do these things.” – Mt. 21:23-27; Mk. 11: 28-33; Lk. 20 1-8.
So, not only are there times when God definitely tells us to keep quit – Jesus Himself demonstrated that there are indeed times when silence is preferred – lest we inadvertently ‘cast our pearls to swine’.
‘Kudos to you for this amusing piece. God’s continued blessing and anointing on your wonderful posts!
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“Ask Him? Why THAT presupposes He exists….”
Thank you, that made me smile. 🙂
Language can be hard, but God is a person, and so much more than a person too, but He has actual personhood. Sometimes it seems as if people treat Him as if he were just an idea, a distant and vague concept. I find it somewhat comical to be trying to argue in favor of God’s personhood.
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Further emphasis on His ‘person-hood’ = Sadly (as in, all have sinned and come short of His Glory), those STILL unbelieving cannot comprehend this personal relationship. But those who have accepted Christ and become born again, newly ‘birthed’ into the spiritual awareness of God’s personal relationship, can and do communicate with Him. Scripture defines these ‘qualifications’ in terms equated with normal human experiences.
“My sheep HEAR My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me” – Jn. 10:27.
Interestingly, even our initial ‘introduction’ is with similar terms used figuratively to proclaim an actual ‘normal human experience’ of inter-personal relationship.
“Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone HEARS My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me” – Rev. 3:20.
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This reminds me of a situation with my five year old granddaughter who was pining because her daddy had to shave his beard. Very short and to the point https://onetahayes.com/2015/09/17/why-didnt-we-talk-to-god-about-that/
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Ahhh, that was just adorable! Thanks for leaving a link. That’s exactly what I’m talking about. 🙂
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Great conversation! “I was just talking to someone, a Lutheran, about sola scriptura and thinking, I should write a whole post about this very subject.”–please do!
Joining the conversation late, maybe I’ll get away with this; maybe not. Take it in the vein of plundering the Egyptians. Sharia (Muslim law) comes from four sources and they must be consulted in order. First, the Qur’an. If it answers the question, no need to keep asking. If the answer is not in the Qur’an, next comes Muslim traditions. If no solution is found there, scholars study more recent precedents. If no recent precedent settles the question, the final resource is common sense.
For a Christian, then, if I believe I have heard the voice of God (from the clouds, in my heart, or from the mouth of another person–it doesn’t matter) first I consult the Bible. If I find a contradiction between the Bible and my new message, the Bible is right and the message is wrong. If there is no contradiction, I should at least consider the wisdom of earlier Christians and the wisdom of contemporary Christians. Does this message fit with what the Bride of Christ is saying, or does it oppose the Bride? If there is opposition, check the Scriptures again to see if the Bride needs correcting (thinking Luther here) or if she should be trusted. Finally, common sense can be considered.
God is free to speak to any person any way he pleases. I do not regulate His communication. At the same time, antivan is entirely right to say that the only place God promises to speak to us today is from the Bible. Beyond that, there are no guarantees. J.
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All I have to say here…is…..love this conversation.
I lean strongly the way Anitvan does honestly, In our work, we get real jittery but I like the expansion both Becky and Salvageable have provided
I thank you all for some things to mull over as I try to figure this prayer thing out.
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