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In another thread Tomassi said in part, “I get that the common Christian tact is to say an honest prayer of forgiveness and make a transformation, but how many men say the magic words and still find themselves stuck because church culture still keeps him deliberately blind…”
Yep, I sure hear that truth. I have been hearing it for a long time, some version or variation of that theme, and it like a punch in the gut every time. I cannot think of anything more appalling, more tragic, more heartbreaking than to answer an alter (altar) call or accept Jesus Christ into your heart and…..it feels as if nothing changes. Feels as if.
On the other hand, close encounters of the God-kind in my life have usually been followed by things getting considerably worse. Downright horrifying actually. All in good humor here but CS Lewis said it best, “I didn’t go to religion to make me happy. I always knew a bottle of Port would do that. If you want a religion to make you feel really comfortable, I certainly don’t recommend Christianity.”
Comfortable? Not even close, way, way out of my comfort zone.
First off, repentance is simply metanoia, it means to change your mind. Turn your face to the Light. We open the door to our heart and let Jesus Christ in, so He can begin the process of metanoia. It is a process. Something supernatural really does begin to happen, I’ve seen it, I’ve born witness to it. Accepting Jesus Christ transforms lives. But accepting Him is only the beginning of a relationship.
It is not like waving a magic wand or like Santa Claus arriving, although it can certainly feel very profound and supernatural. It can rock your whole world. Or, you can not “feel” anything at all. Or worse, like me, you are suddenly like fresh meat for the enemy and the war for your spirit is now on. Crab bait, that’s what I sometimes call myself.
There’s a cartoon floating around with Jesus trying to get into a church and the entire congregation is pushing the door shut and saying, “Don’t let Him in, He’ll change everything!” That is often how we are as individuals, inviting Jesus Christ in and then slamming the door when He begins to do work within us. Jesus Christ is such a gentleman, He often allows us to do just that, to shut Him out of the parts that we aren’t ready to let go of yet. Not always, but often. He is like a delicate surgeon with our souls, our psyches, gentle and kind. He can just whack you over the head and wake you up, but He doesn’t do that very often. Most of the time He waits patiently for us to invite Him in.
Tomassi says in part, “church culture still keeps him deliberately blind….”
Yes, I hear that too, guilty as charged. So, so many of us churchians don’t have a good discipleship program, we don’t know how to mentor people, we don’t even know how to come alongside those who have just come to Jesus Christ. I have felt that failure profoundly, someone will have a life altering, supernatural, close encounter of the God-kind and I am like, “So…. would you like some coffee?”
However, “churchian culture” can’t do it for anyone, even if we were perfect, which obviously we are not. In our defense, most of us are like survivors clinging to a life raft ourselves. Most churchians are just people with our own set of struggles and issues, our own relationships with Christ to build, our own metanoia going on.
I don’t serve “churcian culture,” and with all good gallows humor and ample battle wounds, I actually have references who would probably testify to that. The thing is, I serve Jesus Christ, I answer to Him.
I love church, I’ve been in dozens of them, but parking oneself in a church does not create a Christian. It really is a matter of the heart and it begins with metanoia, with turning to Jesus Christ on your own and building a relationship with Him.
We are all without excuse. Harsh but true. We can’t blame the culture, we can’t blame the church, and we can’t blame God. It is on you.
See, there's this thing called biology... 
Great post. I am picking up what you’re putting down. There is a huge shortage of proficient spiritual fathers and mothers in the church. Grace is great to get. I don’t know anyone who doesn’t like getting it. It’s giving it that’s the problem. Of course that’s because grace is costly. Add to that that stuff doesn’t just get fixed in 30 minutes. It could be years. We need to be willing to walk in troubled dark and muddy waters with people in order to work with Jesus in incarnating His grace for hurting people.
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Dan – Indeed, “stuff doesn’t just get fixed in 30 minutes”. Jesus chose fishermen to catch men – but just like fish, He catches men 1st, and then He cleans them. “incarnating His grace for hurting people” – I really like that. Your original, or an idea from another? Great message!
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As much as I agree with your shared perspective and observations regarding repentance, may I ADD something?
Specifically, the idea of changing one’s mind is only an accurate scriptural interpretation with a more proper etymological comprehension of the Greek term ‘metanoia’ within the original context of its use. I know, I can hear the cries of accusation – according to whose opinion? But the reason so many fail to effectively apply your proclamation (“…turning to Jesus Christ on your own and building a relationship with Him”) is that they do not really enter into a right relationship with Christ in the first place, and think that the ‘building of a relationship with Him’ is on THEM, not realizing the mutual exchange includes God. As if God speaks to us? I certainly hope so – what ‘relationship’ is possible otherwise?
Years ago a notable Christian apologist – Leonard Ravenhill – published a treatise on ‘false conversions’. A great read, and quite worth looking into, but my reference here is limited merely to the FACT that ‘false conversions’ exist. They are the result of religious or “churcian culture” NOT properly stressing the scriptural doctrine concerning the born again experience that Christ Himself said is a MUST (Jn. 3)
Throughout scripture (and life as we now know it), there are many examples of change that reveal a permanent cessation of one thing that results in the beginning of another: once blind, NOW I see; was deaf, NOW hears; lost, NOW found, etc. When it comes to spiritual birth, the proper understanding and resulting teaching about becoming born again is severely lacking. Such experience is initiated by God, maintained and perpetuated by God, similar to the involuntary constant pumping of the physical heart.
Ergo, the many scriptural references to the ‘heart’ as the spiritual center of an individual (“… if in your heart you say; … believe in your heart…” etc.). Spiritual birth (becoming born again) quite literally creates a NEW ‘heart’ within an individual, one which the Holy Spirit indwells, sanctifies, and seals – perpetuating its life through an incorruptible ‘seed’ [Christ’s Spirit]. Fulfilling God’s promise to NEVER leave nor forsake the truly born again.
The result is a proper attitude towards ‘metanoia’ related to true conversion. The ‘change’ produced by sincere repentance is PERMANENT. Unlike other changes of mind, clothing, preferences – what tooth-paste is best, what brand of bottled water to buy, car to drive, celebrity to adore, etc. – METANOIA is irreversible. Once a butterfly has undergone metamorphosis, it can NEVER return to its former existence as a caterpillar.
I’ve heard the popular arguments against this theology and the mundane debates over implications that such strips away free-will, as if a subsequent change of mind will negate a right relationship with God. In the natural (the godless realm of human mentality) this does happen. Of course the ‘churchian’ remedy is endless responses to altar calls. [BTW – liked the ironic use of ‘alter’, very appropriate]. But scripture says such ‘repentance’ (secondary change) is IMPOSSIBLE (Heb. 6:4-6). Who to believe – Scripture or man-made doctrine? Trying to convey spiritual truth to a merely ‘natural’ mind is equally impossible. Apart from revelation from the Holy Spirit within, the ‘best’ person cannot rightly comprehend anything spiritual.
The idea that any ‘works’ either establishes right standing with God, or maintains it is NOT scriptural. The major problem is that it continues under an old covenant that has been replaced (as is common with ALL covenants). No two covenants are considered valid and in force between same named parties. Any new covenant automatically VOIDS the former – that’s just how covenants work – period. Continuing under old covenant law strips Christ of His glory, removing the need for His sacrifice for our sins. If the old was sufficient and eternally binding, the new would never have been introduced.
Currently, there is a debate over the ‘Affordable Health-Care Act’ (Obama Care). Some seek a compromise, a mere amendment to certain parts of it. Those who seek the entire repealing of it are more closely aligned with the scriptural concept of covenant – NOT to imply their motivations are biblical – merely that any NEW covenant automatically repeals ALL of the older one or ones. A dear friend of mine just went through a most exasperating time settling his deceased father’s estate. Newer wills with more current dates kept coming up, rendering each earlier one legally ‘null and void’.
The point being, true conversion is far more about God coming into a life, than a person deciding (choosing) to enter into a more Godly lifestyle. In order for conversion to be real (in scriptural terms), God creates a new ‘heart’ and indwells it. The Spirit of God then confirms this reality, NOT in church necessarily (for such individuals have become the church), but by a conscious abiding awareness from deep within.
“The God of our fathers has chosen you that you should know His will, and see the Just One, and hear the voice of His mouth” – Ac. 22:14. Peace!
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Too many churches treat their ‘numbers of people saved’ like metrics of their church’s success, like evidence for validation of their faith, like McDonald’s number of burgers sold, like PUAs notch counts.
See where I’m going with this?
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Tomassi, I’m sorry there was a delay with your comment. I was at work.
You are absolutely right about some churches treating their “souls won” much like a pua might notch the bed post. That’s an amusing analogy and tragically true.
Just the same, people don’t save souls, only God does. And He doesn’t save just to get us into heaven, He saves to get a little bit of heaven into us.
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And taking the ‘Red Pill’ isn’t waving a magic wand? As IB says, religious conversion is the first step to building a relationship with God, neighbor, and oneself. Game denies relationship-building and teaches men that selfish ego-gratification is the highest goal in life.
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You clearly have no understanding about what Game or The Red Pill is. Red Pill is praxeology. What you choose to do with that awareness is up to the individual. Game is applied Red Pill awareness. You cane use it to hook up at your local club or you can use it to save your marriage or you can use it to avoid blowing your own brains out.
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The ‘numbers game’ was something peculiar to Baptist denominations at one time. Their dogma that inexorably links salvation to water Baptism was originally also linked to the 144000 declared in Revelation. Long since abandoned (the goal of 144K having been reached and surpassed), the ‘tally plaque’ continues to be revered as a sacred tradition, displayed in a place of prominence in many of their sanctuaries. Other denominations have practiced similar record keeping for related reasons. The more a congregation practices ritual, the greater the perceived “need’ to keep such records. Inter-denominational and non-denominational churches tend to refrain from such regular broadcast, but even they, usually include a ‘numbers’ report in their year-end statements.
Not to undermine the legitimate ministry of world evangelism, but according to the sum of ALL reporting ‘agencies’, the number of converts (saved souls) has exceeded the total world population! If the statistical information is correct (which I emphatically doubt), there is no reason to continue evangelism – the gospel has been preached (and apparently received) by the whole world – so come get us, LORD. LOL…
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I can remember years ago hearing a sermon by a priest at the church where I grew up…
he said that when one accepts Jesus into their hearts as Lord and Savior there is for many a vibrant type of high—a tremendous sense of the feel good…only to be quickly and oh so tragically shattered by, say, getting fired the very next day… as in losing a job, an income, a treasure…as in something devastating…
As in walking with Christ is not a cake walk…it is not for the faint of heart…
rather, it is for the one who wants transformation—and that transformation comes at all costs—as in…in order to be fully transformed…some things have got to go—and to get there, to that place, our worldly standings and comforts become anything but comfortable…add to that Satan and his desire to make any sort of our bonding to Christ, as miserable as he possibly can…the closer we walk to God, the harder Satan works…we call that spiritual warfare…
Nothing like living in a fallen world!
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In Matthew 13 Jesus tells the parable of the sower – the seed = the Word of God. Only some is received in ‘futile’ ground where it becomes lasting, evident ‘fruit’ of true conversion. The experience you refer to is one of FALSE conversion, where the trials of life ultimately ‘choke’ the intended divine purpose. Not taking ‘root’ (merely ‘tasting’ but never fully ‘ingesting’) this life and its passions and complications remain more important and reasonable to the mere pretender (false convert). Governed by emotions (which are ever changing) rather than deep seated convictions, having been attracted by mere argument, they conveniently accept a different one when presented. Feelings of righteousness are NOT the substance of abiding convictions placed in a ‘heart’ by the RIGHTEOUS ONE.
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Truly so!
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This is such a wonderful post. I really liked how you spoke about not blaming others including God. Excellent point. The blame game never solves any problem. Wonderfully written. God bless you.
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My quote about sitting in church in order to become a Christian is this: “Sitting in a church pew no more makes you a Christian than sitting in a garage makes you into a car.” Blessings!
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I have a friend that bases her choice of church in how she “feels’ about the message. If it’s too condescending – full of fire and brimstone, she will avoid it like the plague. If we don’t know we are sinners, why would we possibly need a savior?
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atimetoshare.me – regarding your post – “If we don’t know we are sinners, why would we possibly need a savior?” So true, but the old adage, ‘preaching to the choir’ was initiated to remind us to focus specifics of our message on appropriate ‘audiences’. The perpetual ‘fire and brimstone’ reminder is NOT appropriate for truly saved individuals who have already passed from death unto life. Many churches preach a valid doctrine but merely recycle the same limited part of the much larger scope of the entire teachings of Christ.
Scripture elaborates on this – “For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food. For everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil”. – Heb. 5:12-14.
As a convert ‘grows’ spiritually, it often become necessary to move to a different church that ‘serves’ a more ‘meaty meal’. Not due to a disapproval of a message, but that its simply time to ‘return one DVD in exchange for another’. – When what we are served regularly, results in a yawn followed by the thought – “been there, done that”, but no stimulating new revelation, its move on. LOL…
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We just moved to a new congregation. Our reason was that we moved to a different city. Our daughter, who has been unchurched for many years is now worshipping with us along with her daughter. This is something we’ve been praying for a long time. We do often. Become stagnant in our worship, but if the Word is preached, that’s meat and potatoes enough for me. Thanks for your words.
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I am happy to read reports like yours about the benefits of regular church fellowship. I’m sorry if anything I’ve posted tended towards negating positive influences experienced by some changing churches. Moving to a new community certainly is good reason to discover a new church home. Worship is from the heart, so music is irrelevant, at least from God’s perspective. His Word merely refers to ‘making melody’ in our hearts, not necessarily an orchestrated effort by a few musicians who may or may not appeal to our personal liking. God bless your desire to continue in gathering with other Christians!
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Good response. I think a lot of people do not understand the dynamic of Christian sanctification in terms of our responsiblities, the means and God’s ordinary means of grace.
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This is a great post with a lot of good discussion. I think that the churchian world falters whenever people start measuring holy things by their own feelings, thoughts, or accomplishments. Jesus calls us to lose our selves for his sake, not to build our selves. Repentance and faith are gifts from God to me, not gifts from me to God. If I was responsible for “doing” repentance and faith properly, I would always be measuring myself, doubting myself, terrified that my repentance and faith are not good enough for God. When I forget myself and look to Christ, then the doubts and the terror disappear. J.
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This is a comfort to those who pray for salvation and don’t immediately feel different. Thank you for your words.
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