Tags
Evangelizing atheists are boring, redundant, and repetitive. Something that puzzles me, they never seem to understand that I’ve already heard it all, some 50,000 times. They never bring anything new to the table, it’s always the same old song and dance but they tend to believe they’ve just dropped some bombshell of unknown wisdom upon me, so brilliant that if I don’t respond it must be because I am stunned and now evading the question.
Sigh. The only thing I am evading is the urge to inform them their ego is always two stories above their IQ. I am evading typing out yet another long screed called Human Stupidity 101. I am evading repeating the same fruitless conversations I’ve already had for nearly half a century.
Clubschadenfreude decides to bedazzle me with wisdom in this thread by saying, among other things, “I am not accusing this god of being “bad” but of not existing at all,” and “My morality and love are quite a bit better than this god’s” and “Sin” is a term to try to claim that some god approves of some actions and disapproves of others. Christians can’t even agree on what sin actually consists of” and “Now, I can just read the bible and point out that this god’s described morality is far less than mine or most people in the world.”
I have the urge to just pat you on the head and say “yes dear” like one does to someone who is babbling incoherently, and then simply walk away.
I know it’s usually pointless, futile, but let’s break this down anyway, shall we? You show up at my place simply to disturb my peace and joy, and then proceed to lecture me about your vast awareness of morality? You spend all your time roaming about the internet trying to disprove the existence of a God you claim to not even believe in and then you try to call me irrational?? What is more irrational then trying to rob people of their faith and hope? And of course you call yourself Schadenfreude, which means “the pleasure derived by someone from another person’s misfortune.”
As I’ve said a million times, if you can’t even see the nature of your own self with just a tiny bit of awareness, than why would you presume yourself to be worthy of judging God’s character? That’s just a rhetorical question, I already know how this conversation always goes down, and it all boils out to this one idea, “god’s described morality is far less than mine.”
You believe you are superior to God. You think you are wiser, smarter, more powerful, more intelligent, more moral, and far more qualified to be running things than the Creator of the universe. Also you don’t believe in Him because you’ve deemed Him unworthy of your belief and respect.
Welcome to the human race. That desire to one up God himself is called “sin.” As much as you like to believe you are a special snowflake possessing some awesome skills of reason and discernment, you are actually just another people, behaving as people have for thousands of years.
See, there's this thing called biology... 
Good grief! I’m sorry your tranquility was once again disrupted by folks trying to disprove God’s existence. If God does not exist than life is objectively meaningless! Without God, life and the universe are void of any real significance. But, try to explain that to an egghead with eyes welded shut and you only walk away with a headache. UGH!
LikeLiked by 1 person
Yes, life is objectively meaningless.
LikeLiked by 1 person
And what’s wrong with that?
LikeLike
They are boring, redundant, and repetitive..over and over and over and over and over yet again.
Deja vu all over again and all that.
You know, for something that is supposedly content free as the new atheists claim, they sure seem to walk in lockstep with every word they say and comment they make. Almost like doctrine or something.
Weird
LikeLiked by 2 people
I know,right? Sometimes I wonder if the mothership doesn’t just hand out talking points every week.
LikeLiked by 2 people
The mothership…too funny IB.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Unless some Theocrat is directly oppressing them… I’ve never understood why they care so much about what other people believe in with such a religious fervor.
LikeLiked by 4 people
Gosh Mike, I was hoping you would bring and answer to that question. I suspect the A team will show up around these parts at anytime, perhaps we can ask them…again.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Ow Wally, that hurts! I always considered myself part of the A-Team… Sgt. Bosco “B.A.” Baracus to be exact.
LikeLiked by 2 people
No LOL…the A Team….the Atheist team…you know, those guys.
Although you do seem rather like BA Baracus, actually
LikeLiked by 2 people
So along the lines of the special snowflake theory… I have always wondered about a belief system built around an all-encompassing omnipotent God of love and mercy who will ultimately triumph but somehow needs an imperfect creation’s help. It is just a confusing concept. I spent a good chunk of my life feeling like a hypocrite trying to make religion work and had to come to grips with the fact it doesn’t make sense to me. That said, anyone who it works for… Enjoy!
LikeLiked by 1 person
Thank You. And I promise I won’t tell you how to think.
LikeLiked by 2 people
So glad ms bytes you did a spin off from the other post, where your guest offered the standard babble. I am thankful I resisted the urge to butt in over there, since there are the ‘accusation police’ running around monitoring convos. lol
Seriously though, this post of yours is a sweet and terse reply to that, and it has a very nice scent. Yes a scent, as in the laying out in lavender the nature of God in words easy to understand. But what will be lost to Club and such, is just how much beauty stares them in the face, beauty that can only come from everything that men take for granted. (oops, did I say men, as in mankind? Sorry, no apology…………) And yep beauty also, as in a post like this.
Welcome to the human race! Loved that. And that little uncomfortable word ‘sin.’ And the greatest of these encroachments by we the people, is to deny God the courtesy of His own existence, which you have also pointed out quite nicely.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Thanks, Colorstorm. It does get old after a while, doesn’t it? And the never ending accusation police, good grief!
LikeLiked by 2 people
Yep it gets old, it’s a messy business, but someone has to clean out the stalls.
Here I am, Lord, send me! (well, maybe not.) 😉
LikeLiked by 2 people
IB, I’ve always admired the FAITH that atheists have. I mean, to look at the expanse and wonder of the universe, and then bring it closer to home by marveling at the beauty of this earth–it’s seasons, balance, and all the things that we uncover and discover. Nature is most beautiful and the universe most astonishing–and to think all this came from this enormous accident (called “The Big Bang”). When I was younger, I served in local fire departments. We rolled up on a lot of accidents, but never have I seen a beautiful accident. Wow! What faith these atheists have in an accident….
LikeLiked by 4 people
“You believe you are superior to God. You think you are wiser, smarter, more powerful, more intelligent…”
Reminded me of Ezekiel 28:
“In the pride of your heart
you say, ‘I am a god;
I sit on the throne of a god
in the heart of the seas.’
But you are a mere mortal and not a god,
though you think you are as wise as a god…
…You were the seal of perfection,
full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
…Your heart became proud
on account of your beauty,
and you corrupted your wisdom
because of your splendor.
So I threw you to the earth;
I made a spectacle of you before kings.”
Speaking for the Sovereign Lord Ezekiel concluded, “…you have come to a horrible end and will be no more.”
Some say Ezekiel was talking about Satan when he wrote those words to the King of Tyre.
I’ve gone round and round with Club in the past and I’d say he’s more minion than mortal. More a broken record than a thinker. I no longer waste my time.
LikeLiked by 3 people
It would be nice if we ALL could state our beliefs without the emphasis on why the other guy is wrong.
LikeLiked by 4 people
“You believe you are superior to God”
I can’t speak for Club, but I don’t believe I’m superior to many people, never mind potentially invisible beings. I do, however, feel a sense out duty about pointing out things that are illogical, archaic or damaging. For example, it’s illogical to support the actions of a government persecuting gay people, to the point of wanting to implement a death penalty just because you’ve decided your invisible god doesn’t like gay relationships. Or, for example, it’s archaic to blindly follow the traditions of superstitious people who developed religious practices based on blood sacrifices in times of relative ignorance. Or, for example, it’s damaging to tell women they have to behave like ‘princesses’ or force them into any kind of stereotyped and limiting role just because they have a vagina. Don’t you agree?
LikeLiked by 1 person
More to the point how can a person believe they’re superior to something they don’t believe exists?
LikeLiked by 2 people
A description of a being which is unlikely to exist can and often is rather detailed, even if inconsistent.
LikeLike
Hi MJ, that’s a great question, perhaps you can answer it on behalf of your friends. The aura of superiority towards God, and God’s people is pervasive. Just look above for proof. Look, the referenced blogger, Club, has made numerous reference to his own morals being superior to God’s. In fact, that claim is common among the non believers who visit Christian blogs. We aren’t making this stuff up, I promise. The constant moral judgments against a God who doesn’t exits just seem….odd. Perhaps you could explain.
LikeLike
No the moral judgement is towards the words in the bible, not towards god. There is no God to exist to feel superior over. Or have a moral judgement over. the moral judgement is saying “IF this fictional character existed, God is not moral”
LikeLiked by 2 people
That’s patently absurd. If it never happened, then arguments about it are moot and rather like Don Quixote flailing at windmills.
If it is true(and of course I believe it is), then God is God, and our sitting in moral judgment of Him is also patently absurd.
My point is, and perhaps you are not guilty of this, is that MUCH time gets spent by some railing and flailing against something they say is non existent.
If God does not exist, the point is pointless. If He does, then honestly what we think about it is irrelevant. I know that’s a tough word, but it is what it is.
LikeLiked by 2 people
If we were talking about any other fictional character in any other book, film etc then the conversation would be ‘pointless’ as in it merely be a conversation for the simple fun of it, and just for thinking sake. But when it comes to God, the ‘point’ is far from ‘moot’ because people believe this character is real, therefore it has real effects on society.
LikeLike
Hey mj-
Your inability to admit the obvious, or your unwillingness to know that rocks do not on their own decide to ‘make a human,’ does not disqualify God from existing.
The problem is yours, not His. His existence is unmoved by man’s rebellion, and His power to keep the planets in order, does not hinge on your approval.
But you know this already, as do most people who are reasonable of mind.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Where have I stated any of my beliefs? I have simply pointed out why an atheist might use a particular argument.
LikeLike
Here ya go, in your own words.
‘There is no God to exist to feel superior over.’
A statement of belief. You will eventually choke on such absurdity.
And I’ll not argue with such arrogance.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Nope. I never said anywhere what I do or don’t believe. I simply stated what is a general belief of atheists, that being that no god exists, therefore they don’t believe they’re superior to god because god doesn’t exist. Whether I personally am an atheist or not wasn’t the point of any of my comments.
LikeLike
Don’t all world views, even yours, have and effect on society? Of course they do, all of them. What makes yours acceptable and not another?
LikeLike
Wide spread beliefs and views have an effect on society, yes.
What is acceptable and what isn’t is a different debate.
LikeLike
Okay, that’s fair enough MJ. The only thing I was really addressing was that many non believers have an issue with Christians possibly influencing public policy based on there beliefs. Bottom line is, ever single person who gets involved in that process attempts to influence public policy based on their particular world view. And then a lot of extraneous stuff like killing gays, oppressing women, genocide, and enslaving people get tossed in the mix, with the underlying assumption that Christians having a say in social and public policy somehow means we want those things to be enacted. Which is obviously not true. Yeah, I know, there are fringe people who support things like that. Of course. There are also fringe elements of atheism which support heinous things as well. Recall Pol Pot? Bad fella, and I am pretty sure you don’t support his public policy. I assume we are both fairly normal folks, but we allow ourselves to build caricatures of who the think the “other” people are.
Just my two cents.
LikeLike
@Wally. I only know you exist because of words I am reading that claim you exist. Based on these words, I could make moral judgements about your character and your actions. But you could be fictitious, the invention of someone with a creative mind. My judgement on the fictitious or otherwise character of Wally Fry are valid either way. In the same way, the god of the Christians is described as a being with thoughts and actions that we can judge against our contemporary moral framework.
Genocide? Not okay in my contemporary moral framework.
Teasing and playing with people, asking them to kill their children to test them, allowing evil spirits to kill their family to prove a point? Not okay in my contemporary moral framework.
Telling people they can possess slaves, that they can in fact beat them up, as long as they don’t kill them? Not okay in my contemporary moral framework.
I could go on, but you get the picture. 😀
LikeLike
@ Violet. Yes, we all know how you feel about anything associated with Christians or Christianity, and that our moral failures are abysmal. We get it. But, other than your own personal distaste for some things, what exactly provides your moral framework to even evaluate morality in the first place?
Finally, you associate Christians with some things that simply are not linked. All of those things you spew as accusations? Um, like IB…I seem to have missed all the Christians trying to kill gays. Uganda? Eh, really? You know was well as I do that they reason those folks over there want to do that is driven by much more than Christian faith. In fact, such a thing cannot be driven by Christian faith.
Your issues with the Words that are written? So, what? It doesn’t matter what any body says or explains about any of it, you won’t hear. Your entire mindset is driven by your hatred of Christianity and all things Christian.
LikeLiked by 1 person
@Wally
“what exactly provides your moral framework to even evaluate morality in the first place?”
Empathy, without which humans could never have developed social cohesion and kind of co-operative societies we see today, and common sense – what are the most probable positive and negative outcomes of any action. Note ‘contemporary’ moral framework – it shifts dependent on our understanding of what other people experience. Hence, slavery was fine until relatively recently, the death penalty was fine until relatively recently (still is in some parts of your backward country!) and babies born out of wedlock were going straight to hell by the understanding of many Christians, until relatively recently.
“All of those things you spew as accusations? Um, like IB…I seem to have missed all the Christians trying to kill gays. Uganda? Eh, really?”
Sorry Wally, I can’t account for you choosing forget Insanity’s post where she supported the proposed bill in Uganda to kill homosexuals.
“Your entire mindset is driven by your hatred of Christianity and all things Christian.”
I don’t hate Christianity. I’m fascinated by it. I’m sorry you perceive this as a negative discussion.
LikeLike
Evolving morality eh? Strange. This is so simple even a fundie American can get it. If morality is evolving and ever changing based on societal mores, empathy, and expedience….then nothing is wrong. It just depends on where one is in the evolving process.
Let me ask you a question Violet. Would it be wrong in every case to mug a person and steal their money?
LikeLike
I really wouldn’t know Violet. Lately I haven’t executed any gays, made any burnt offerings, or forced women to act like “princesses.” I’ve never met any Christian who has.
Somewhere in the midst of your sneering, snide words about Christians being “ignorant, archaic, and damaging,” your feelings of superiority become blatantly evident.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Insanity, lately you have posted supporting the proposed Ugandan bill to execute homosexuals, lately (I assume, like most Christians) you have taken part in the ritual of communion, celebrating bloody sacrifice, and lately you have encouraged women to take a submissive role and all that entails simply because they have a vagina. And I’m sure you’ve met many Christians who support you in all these endeavours.
I don’t think I’m sneering, I’m just stating facts. Not all Christians support harmful beliefs and practices, but I still might want to discuss what leads them to believe in invisible gods created by people in times of superstition and ignorance, just out of curiosity. There’s nothing wrong with that, is there? It’s good to understand how our fellow humans evaluate our existence and the history of human development.
LikeLike
Violetwisp, I’m disappointed that you think so little of women. So we are only different from men because we have vaginas? That’s simply not true.
Let’s start with the brain: “Male and female brains operate differently at a molecular level, a Northwestern University research team reports in a new study of a brain region involved in learning and memory, responses to stress and epilepsy.” (https://news.northwestern.edu/stories/2015/08/scientists-uncover-a-difference-between-the-sexes)
Then there are things such as the male voice, adam’s apple, the woman’s breasts, facial hair, testosterone levels, and more. I can’t believe you think our basic gender differences don’t influence the way we interact in society, or that it’s a crazy idea to believe gender should play a part in our roles. News flash: men are not going to give birth any time soon. Their gender role does not allow them to breast feed. This is not a bad thing and it does not make men less important. Nor are women less important because we do have those capacities. The roles are simply different.
That Christians who believe the Bible understand this and atheists who believe science don’t, says something about each of our belief systems, I think.
Becky
LikeLiked by 1 person
Violet, i don’t think most Christians having a relationship with God through Christ would agree with much of what you describe here……
LikeLike
*slow clap*
LikeLiked by 1 person
“I am not accusing this god of being “bad” but of not existing at all,”
Exactly HOW do you go about ACCUSING someone who doesn’t exist?
The thought of bothering to spend any time at all on such useless, fruitless, action just boggles my mind 😦
Really glad I’m not an atheist…..
LikeLiked by 2 people
Though I guess the atheistic reply to that comment would be why do we spend so much time as Christians defending/talking about His existence?
LikeLiked by 1 person
I think you’ve said a mouthful, there. 🙂
The thing is, our well being as Christians requires us to immerse ourselves in His word and to praise Him. That’s what brings us joy and gets us through sometimes dark days. In an atheist view, we should not do that, should not have that right, because they consider it offensive for us to engage in worship.
When they start using words like “harmful,damaging, dangerous,” we are not like two equals discussing different beliefs, we are now the enemy. When someone believes you are dangerous and harmful, the only logical next step is to try to silence and oppress you.
LikeLiked by 3 people
I agree that worship is at the core of our well being as Christians, and it is what separates us out. I believe we were all made to worship, we all have a need to worship, which is why there are all kinds of idols other than God, even things like education, money and celebrities. If we don’t worship the Creator who made all things we will inevitably substitute something else.
If I find my pleasure and well being in reading fiction, and devote my time to that, who has a problem with it? But if I spend time enjoying God, who is considered fictitious, that’s a problem. The biggest reason is that when you come face to face with the reality of sin and holiness there is no fence to sit on comfortably.
I enjoy the reality of God in my life every day. I can’t make another person see that reality. Only God can do that. All I can do is point out the way and demonstrate the relationship.
There is so much confusion about religion, when true Christianity is not in fact a religion, but a relationship. Living and walking in His mercy and forgiveness is the aspect of relationship I can share with others. It’s hard sometimes to understand how much the demonstrable goodness of God in a life offends people, but it does.
I can’t explain everything about this one true God who has claimed my heart and allegiance. All I can say is “Taste and see that the Lord is good.” Psalm 34:8
Taste and see…..
LikeLiked by 3 people
Amen. Taste and see… 🙂
LikeLike
I think I’ve seen respect and disrespect on both sides of the fence, and yes, a form of evangelistic atheism as well as Christian evangelism. While there is still freedom of speech, it will no doubt be employed….hopefully some of it is both enlightening and useful for the folks on either side of the fence……
LikeLiked by 1 person
Not to mention that after this very human commenter will be gone in a few short years, and God will still be here. He’s not only morally superior to humans, He is superior in every other way, including the fact that He is immortal.
What I don’t understand is how someone who likely admits to the vastness of space says with such certitude that in all that vastness, there is no God. He knows because he’s taken a quick look at all that vastness? Of course not. It’s the most remarkable statement, filled with hubris.
Becky
LikeLiked by 2 people
Wow so I’m not the only one that sees them as redundant and arrogant
LikeLiked by 2 people
That was hilarious and powerful. Just what the proud need. 🙂
A wise man scales the city of the mighty, and casts down the strength of the confidence thereof. (Proverbs 21:22)
LikeLiked by 1 person