Something that’s always on my heart are poverty issues, both poverty of spirit, (the negative kind) and a lack of money. I know the issues that arise from poverty well, I grew up dumpster diving dirt poor and had to scratch my way up to working class. That is not so easy. It’s taken me a lifetime to arrive at “working class,” although it is a bit funny to look back and to realize that my concept of “wealth” involved having enough food to eat all the time, and having hot running water. That was my jackpot. To this day I will turn on a tap and go wow, I have arrived.
My husband grew up somewhat better off, although there were 15 kids in his family, so scarcity yes, but his parents were married and they both worked. In those days that provided a living, a quality of life. People back then didn’t make a whole lot of money, but you could still buy a house for a few thousand dollars. Hubby and I were looking at one such modest home from his childhood the other day. It’s for sale again, 870,000 dollars. A starter home. Wow, times have changed, things have changed. The economy has changed.
I actually really enjoy talking with people of a more conservative bent about poverty, about the economy, about culture, both on the internet and in real life. They often have some good insights and if they have a Christian background they can be focused on trying to serve people. How can we get you profitable, stable, solvent? How can we build the economy and encourage entrepreneurial skills? Some are very aware and a pleasure to chat with. Some are actually doing some amazing work.
There are the other kind of course, the “just pull yourself up by the bootstraps” kind. The kind that really just have no idea what it means to have been disenfranchised. Disenfranchised means, “deprived of power; marginalized.” Locked out, shut out, not having access to the tools others have access to. They also don’t get learned helplessness. They cannot see the issues clearly and so they say things like, “those people should just pick themselves up like I did.” They just have no idea what poverty it is even like. You aren’t knocked down once, you’re surrounded on all sides and if you even try to get up, you’re knocked down again. You learn to just stay down. That’s learned helplessness.
It’s a conversation I want to have, a discussion I’d like to see more of. I think conservatives can have some really good ideas when it comes to social issues, to issues around poverty. We’re living in this crazy world of social justice where to be seen as conservative is be perceived as well off, as not caring about the poor. I don’t see that reflected in the real world at all. I can be very conservative about many things and yet I care about people, I care about social issues.
So, let’s start a conversation.
See, there's this thing called biology... 
The political lines sure seem blurry these days. Conservatives can be Democrats or Republicans, and vice versa. I think it’s a discussion that needs to happen regardless of political affiliation.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I hear you. It’s hard to even know what is “conservative” these days versus “liberal.” Maybe that’s a good thing, maybe we can start discussing issues rather than labels.
As to the D’s and R’s, I can hardly make heads or tails out of them. Apparently the candidates are “evolving,” so what they may have said last year doesn’t apply to this year.
It’s probably conservative of me, but I think the path forward involves people coming together to solve problems rather than looking to our government for solutions.
LikeLiked by 3 people
That’s the solution. However, I feel the parties have splintered and one represents nationalism, while the other represents globalism. It’ll be hard for those polar opposites to find common ground to help the needy.
LikeLiked by 1 person
@The V Pub
The powers that be actively suppress Conservatism. It has a wing in the Republican Party. Ted Cruz represented it, but the news media promoted Donald Trump and strove to ignore Cruz.
With Trump in the lead position, the parties come across as you indicated, one represents nationalism, while the other represents globalism. However, most of the people we elect are not terribly ideological. They are careerists. From their perspective I think too many of them think it is about me, not us. So to further their careers they say the right words, cater to special interests, and they just get annoyed and angry — if they pay any attention to us at all — when we complain.
How did we get in this mess? The title of insanitybytes22’s post gets at it. When our nation was founded, we had a Conservative approach to poverty. People provided charity through their churches.
In the time since our nation’s founding charity (which includes health, education and welfare) has become first a local, then a state, and now Federal issue. That mean means the recipients of charity have almost no direct connection to the people who give it. So they feel no shame or regret when they receive charity. In fact, charity has become a “right”. The damage done to the character of those receiving such charity is incalculable, and it slowly ripping our nation apart.
What damage is done to the character of our people? In addition to confusing privileges with rights, we give government official control over innumerable decisions that should be made by individuals, not government officials.
Who gets charity?
What gets taught in school? When education is a right, government has to give it to us.
Who gets medical care? What medical care?
How are resources allocated for food, clothing, shelter, education, health care, and so forth?
It is so obvious it is laughable, but here is one reason, hardly the most important, as to why government should not be involved in charity. Even well intended political decisions tend to be very inefficient and delayed. They are always made by committees.
To put that in perspective, consider an old joke.
LikeLiked by 3 people
Excellent response, Citizen Tom. There is also the secular movement that has tried to replace the community church, and its methods of dispensing funds. If I were a cynic, I would think that it’s a power grab by the government.
LikeLiked by 2 people
The Bible doesn’t call such thinking cynicism.
Christians have no reason to be surprised when men and women, especially those who do not know Jesus, yield to temptation.
Those who worship the state are little different from the idol worshipers of the past. They too attempted to justify their sins. They too pressured others to become complicit in their sins. That is why more Christians are martyred today than ever. Except for those who know Jesus, the world has changed little,
LikeLiked by 1 person
Our “poverty” came from listening to our parents, all four born in the depression. Only my mom had a mom and dad. My dad’s dad abandoned his wife and two toddler sons. His mom was illiterate, immigrating legally from Romania at the age of 11. She worked and became a business owner after her husband abandoned them. My father in law’s mom died when he was young. His dad remarried and she kicked the kids out when they each turned 16. My mother in law’s mom also died when she was young and her dad abandoned the three kids. A spinster aunt checked in them once a week. The three kids lived alone, ages 8-11. Two girls became nurses and the son a blue collar worker until age 90! Three of the 4 served in WWII.
That’s our backdrop. Our parents really didn’t know how to parent. My mother was a change of life baby, with 40 years difference between her and her mother. We were taught to be frugal, patriotic, and kind to others. We were also raised in the church. We are both very grateful for our upbringing as is our daughter. She was an only child so our focus is always on her. She thought we were too strict, but now that she’s an adult and is around others she said she really appreciates our parenting style-and that we’ve remained together.
Everyone has interesting stories about their backgrounds.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I forgot to mention, my parents were Republicans and my husband’s parents were Democrats. My husband and I are independence I forgot to mention, my parents were Republicans and my husband’s parents were Democrats. My husband and I are independents. Our values line up with conservatism.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Isn’t that fascinating? I love to hear about people’s backgrounds, where they came from, how they survived. That’s the kind of wisdom and experience that we can draw from,.learn from. It’s challenging because times are changing, the economy and culture is different, so we have adapt and change, too.
LikeLiked by 1 person
It’s important to pass on our family histories.
LikeLiked by 1 person
This is fascinating and a debate should certainly be had.
I am conservative and I have an advanced degree in business as well as practical experience so I know how the economy works.
Problem is, I have found is that too many of the debates people have about poverty these days involve people that only have facts or opinions they think are facts learned in a college classroom or on cable TV.
I did most my learning when I actively started serving the poor. The only way to really understand and issue is to get to know it personally.
Just my two cents.
LikeLiked by 2 people
“I did most my learning when I actively started serving the poor. The only way to really understand and issue is to get to know it personally.”
Yes, perfect! Most of the conservatives I know who really have some great ideas actually do serve the poor. So their ideas, solutions are really hands on and have a practical edge to them.
LikeLiked by 3 people
The people who gave me the most practical help were Republican millionaires. They showed me that those who really care about the poor use their own resources, not the government’s!
LikeLiked by 1 person
Ha! I love that, Debbie Lynne. May you be blessed with many more just like them. 🙂
I’ve gotten some really good advice from not quite millionairies, but some well off people with some surprising insights.
LikeLike
Boy, do I have some thoughts here!
First, I am a huge fan of the “pull yourself up by the bootstraps” theory. Been there done that. I believe in it completely. By the force of my own desire and personality I wrested myself from what most people to day would have said was poverty. But, I will qualify that some. Remember the distant mother I told you about in an earlier post? I owe it all to her. She knew our lives pretty much sucked, but she never, ever said it to me. I didn’t realize it for a long time to tell the truth. But the big thing is…she drilled in me for years that my life would NOT stay that. I bet I heard a million times, “when you go to college.” I never once heard “if.”
I actually was so ingrained with that mindset I seriously thought college was a bill you got when you graduated highs school. I just assumed folks went to college and paid for it. Found out that really wasn’t true LOL but it was too late, I had already done it.
My point is, the “want to” has to be developed in people. Now on to some conservative bashing I happen to be one, but I shall bash us anyway.
If we want folks to pull themselves up by the bootstraps, then we might have to take personal action and invest ourselves in some young people and show and mentor them the way to escape instead of snarling a them as sub humans.
The church? James has this nailed.We need to get out of our ivory towers. Our churches should care for those among us. Starting with our own membership, why would there be abject need? Maybe I am spoiled, but I can promise you that no member of our body would have to suffer a serious need unmet; help would come. We also need to reach out to our communities as part of our evangelistic efforts.
Thems my 2 cents. We need to stop talking and start doing.
LikeLiked by 4 people
That’s just fabulous, Wally. Now if we can just clone you, we could straighten everything out in no time. 🙂
I really like what you said about how “the “want to” has to be developed in people.” I think that’s where mentoring comes in, taking people under your wing and genuinely loving them. I share your belief that our churches should care for people among us.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Yep personal involvement would solve much of what ails us. Too many people and churches think giving money is enough. People need us as much as they need our money. Money does help though
LikeLiked by 1 person
Amen, Wally. While money can certainly be useful, having encouragement, mentors, people’s time, is what’s priceless. I was thinking of this in terms of disciples, we’re called to go forth and make disciples. That can take time, love, an emotional investment. I’m not sure we do that very well in the modern world.
LikeLiked by 2 people
This is a very interesting post and I appreciate you opening up the conversation on conservatism and helping the poor. It’s both a simple and complicated question. The simplicity of it, in my view, is that any system that leads people towards personal empowerment and freedom and away from government dependency and and enslavement is the most compassionate.
This gets complicated though when dealing with folks who, as you say are shut out for the system and have a “learned helplessness” that prevents them from being able to take advantage of an “up by your bootstraps” mentality. There are too many folks on the Right who can’t see this and offer nothing for folks that desperately need a way out. I
n my view this is why Donald Trump could become our next President. I don’t believe he has anything to offer these people but at least he is talking about it.
LikeLiked by 3 people
Amen Tricia
I addressed the same thing, I believe in pulling yourself up by the bootstraps, absolutely. But sometimes people seriously don’t know how they would even do such a thing. Some don’t even realize it is an option. Therefore those of us who understand it have a responsibility to aid those who don’t. And I don’t mean tossing money at them either. Sometimes we have to get PERSONALLY involved in the life of another. Who wants to do all that, though, right? So, the liberals throw money at them, and the conservatives snarl at them. But, neither gets their hands dirty with those lousy, no good poor people.
LikeLiked by 3 people
Very well stated Wally and it is a responsibility we all share.
LikeLiked by 2 people
As a teacher I see a few cases of learned helplessness every year, but in the education area. However, learned helplessness whether in education, economics, or any endeavor essentially has the same nature. It is a very difficult pit to crawl out of, and even more difficult to haul someone out of if they see no hope or point in trying.
I personally have come to believe that any source that facilitates and enables a learned helplessness is inherently evil because it weakens, and as you said; enslaves the person, and when multiplied society as a whole. It does breed dependency and some elements of social and political society have learned to use that as a constant source of power for themselves.
The conservatives that truly embrace, think, and actively reflect on their principles understand this. They work and support policies that empower everyone. The problem is, the fixes are not quick, nor easy, and do not offer instant gratification.
The other conservatives, which I call “hash tag” conservatives, think only in slogans and don’t usually put much thought beyond the basic idea and entertain only their emotions. Both political sides have these types of people, but being a conservative myself, these conservatives annoy me. They do not offer any solutions, but often get angry at their fellow conservatives that do not see issues exactly the same way they do.
I do not believe the right or the left have as many of this type as we think, but there are certainly more than there needs to be.
LikeLiked by 3 people
This was well said, thank you.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Interesting discussion IB. You know I never gave it much thought, assuming that there was sufficient intermixing of the classes to keep the lines of communication open. I had a rude awakening in 2001 when i did a business degree at one of Canada’s top universities. This university ranks in the top ten in the world for business every year and competes with Harvard and Yale for students. Our class had 52 students and one day our HR prof addressed this very topic – the break between those who were bosses and those who did the work, The students – myself included – expressed the belief that the barrier was low. The prof disagreed – saying it was high and getting higher. He was a brilliant professor who published constantly and we had stolen him from South Africa’s premiere university. He said he would prove it to us. He then asked for a show of hands for all who had done any blue collar paid work at all as a young adult or even as a part-time teen or at any time in their lives. Out of the 52 students, only two of us raised our hands. It turned out that all the rest came from white collar families whose parents had gotten them part time work in their offices during their teen years. In other words, at no point did the other 50 students have any exposure to blue collar at all, except to give orders.
At that point I realized that this problem would never solve itself and it was growing. i have no suggestions as to how to address this issue.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Interesting,Paul. There can be a real disconnect sometimes. I remember a lady politician who believed she was self made, she’;d worked her way up from the bottom, she knew what blue collar work was because she once had a job mopping floors. She believed that since she had done it,everyone else should be able to. What she couldn’t even see was that her father had actually paid her way through school, her job mopping floors was at her uncle’s business, and when she graduated she was given a house and a car, and her father’s connections and relationships had led her into politics. So basically all she had ever had to do for herself was to receive the gifts, opportunities, relationships she was given.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Wellll, hmmm, let’s see, well, It is a skill to learn how to accept gifts graciously – she has that. Ha!
LikeLiked by 1 person
I come from poverty as well – dire enough that there was sometimes no food and certainly more than bare subsistence was very rare. It’s interesting to see the division of in poverty and working class. My dad worked his tail off but the bootstraps weren’t strong enough to lift him. He lived in a state of constant anger that he could never catch a break. There are things conservatives would say he could have done differently, but he literally did not have the capacity to do anything differently given that he likely had brain damage from severe childhood abuse. He had no learned helplessness; he simply didn’t have the capacity he needed to live the American dream and no way to get it. Those kinds of people we will always have with us.
I would say from observation that much poverty is learned helplessness, but some people are poor because they lack the capacity to compete in the work force. These are the working poor, the people who will not take a handout (increasingly rare, I know), the ones who work because it’s the right thing to do rather than because it gives them what they need to move up, the ones not fit for even a high school education, let alone college. Many of them know they’re stuck where they are, but they keep going to work every day even so.
It’s frustrating that conservatives see the solution to poverty as “they just need to make different choices.” Some people can’t. When a person is in the dark it’s cruel to blame him because he doesn’t have a light.
LikeLiked by 3 people
“When a person is in the dark it’s cruel to blame him because he doesn’t have a light.”
Amen, Eavan. Some people simply don’t understand the challenges others face, where they’ve walked and what they’ve already survived. Life can take an emotional toll on you, too.
Thinking of learned helplessness, what it really is is a lack of hope. In Christ we are called to be that light, to spread that hope.
LikeLike
Yes, but Christ is the hope, not the American dream (which you didn’t say, but conservatives often do). This is what ultimately sustained my dad – his absolute devotion to and great love for God. We needed handouts sometimes and when people did it in a way that honored my dad instead of humiliating him (for example, leaving food at the door so he wouldn’t be embarrassed) he was able to accept it. Some people say that the poor have no right to pride or dignity, that dad should have been humble enough to take backhanded handouts, but that’s also cruel and self-righteous. People have dignity because they’re people, not because they have stuff, and they don’t lose their dignity because they are in need. This is where I think conservatives ultimately let people down – their attitude of “I have mine and it’s because of my goodness and you don’t have anything because you aren’t as [hardworking, frugal, whatever] as I am.” I’ve never met anybody who is even working class who didn’t have some sort of help, whether it’s help getting a job or help going to school. Everybody who has used the bootstraps had help either finding them or help lifting themselves – somebody who showed them the way. You can’t even get a job unless somebody shows you how to dress and how to interview; you can’t rent a house unless somebody tells you how it works; you can’t budget unless somebody shows you how, etc. Everybody needs other people to learn how to do things and if somebody didn’t learn growing up then we shouldn’t expect them to just know.
And can I just add as an aside – our education system keeps people in poverty. The emphasis on staying in school when government schools are such evil places is misguided. Conservatives should be finding ways to provide real education for poor people’s children instead of leaving them languishing in the public schools.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Ah,perfect comment, Eavan. Some of those things have been on my mind too, the shame attached to poverty, the need for relationships and connections. Everybody needs other people, indeed. I actually just posted about some of those same ideas.
LikeLike
Pingback: Alaskan Bush People | See, there's this thing called biology...
I grew up in a poor family below the poverty line. I think conservative economic and fiscal policies have allowed me social mobility.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Amen, I too believe some conservative policies, values, are what have enabled me to have some mobility.
Long ago someone talked me out of going to school and just getting some practical training instead, and getting married. The path back then was education, education, which would have created a great deal of debt, delayed marriage, and probably not given me useful job skills. Plus it was not really in my heart. At the time it was a somewhat radical idea, but hubby and I were able to build a business instead, and have a family. We have friends today who are still dealing with student loans, who are unemployed or underemployed. I think the conservative spirit there was the entrepreneurial idea, just step out of the box and build it.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Great post. Check out my current and upcoming political and theological posts! Follow for follow. Share anything you like to increase the following and viewership. Thanks. I look forward to your future posts!
LikeLike