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clowns in the asylum, culture, faith, insanitybytes, life, love, opinion, politics
I am not a big fan of positive thinking and putting on a happy face, I’m actually a fan of cynicism, bitterness, and despair. Most of the time I’d prefer to stay in bed and hide under the covers or perhaps get up and start digging a bunker and stocking it with canned spam.
Most of the time I am convinced things just don’t end well and we are about to step into a world ruled by Mad Max and the Road Warriors or perhaps descend into the zombie apocalypse.
Just the same, that is not what we are called to do as Christians. When we see impending doom on the horizon we are called to “rejoice, and again I say rejoice.” Three times, just in case we missed the first command to re-joy ourselves. When it seems as if the world is ending, we are told to be of good cheer, these are simply the groanings of birth pains.
Obviously, these things are counter intuitive for those of us who tend to be melancholy, so when the world seems to be crashing down all around you, the rule of law seems to no longer apply, and innocent people are being murdered outright, it can be very challenging to always be prepared to give an account for the hope that is in you.
I long for another place, another time, another dimension, knowing full well the good old days never really existed, but regardless that is the wrong attitude to have anyway. We are to rejoice, to shine all the brighter in dark times, and to ask ourselves, “…who knoweth whether thou art come to the kingdom for such a time as this?” Esther4:14
What if we are the right people at the right time, specifically made for such a time as this? What if we have been called to a task, to a great harvest, something more akin to a barn raising or perhaps a fancy wedding feast? That is where I must place my eyes, over and over again, on a kingdom and a harvest, on a place of rejoicing, because the world around us can seem very dark indeed.
Seems dark, seems being the key word here, because perception and attitudes are everything. To seem is to “give the impression or sensation of being something.”
Perhaps we are a royal priesthood, called into being for such a time as this, to spread the good news and offer hope to a broken world.
See, there's this thing called biology... 
I posted the another blog that the election year makes me want to leave the planet, but honestly… The angry, cruelty, malice, hate, despair and evil of this pathetic world makes me want to leave the planet.
I know…I know! lol. not the attitude we Christians should have, but still… 😉
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I meant….”I posted ON…”
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Yes, it was mine and you are still not allowed to leave the planet irfty…;)
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awwww…. 😦
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I know, right? It can be so discouraging. I often have the urge to boldly flee to some other planet. Preferably a tropical one with a beach 🙂
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I think NASA found one of those planets in a distant galaxy. Maybe we can get Bill Gates and Warren Buffet to fund our plan on building the ship we need to get there.
Oooo…better still, I’ll start a Go Fund Me page.
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Ha! your first 2 paragraphs. That’s me! 🙂
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Amen!
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Amen to what, Wally?
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To the post, John.
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Yes, but which part…
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John, don’t waste my time. Just tell me which part of this you want to pick apart with absurdities so we can move along.
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Don’t waste my time. There were a number of points made in the post. To which one were you saying ämen”to?
The final point, for example?
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John
I have seen your comment regarding that last paragraph in the post. It’s absurd and quite idiotic.
You say “do something”
What you mean, is do exactly the things I think matter, or you are doing nothing.
Again, you apparently thing campaigning against guns would solve every ill in the world. Funny thing is, you actually have no clue how I might feel about that particular issue, so you are spouting generalities and stereotypes rather than engaging another human as human. Oh, the irony of that. Darn those Christians, running around making judgments about people and forcing their beliefs on them by invading their spaces.
That’s the pot calling the kettle black for sure.
Peace
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Well said Wally, I believe that could be a post of its own standing.
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Well, get busy then! And thanks Tricia
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No, for you! 😉
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Sigh..ok sounds like a plan. I will be added to the list of drafts with a title and no body LOL
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Lol, I’ve got that list too…
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No, I do not think campaigning against guns would solve all ills. That being said, if your country wasn`t flushed with guns you wouldn’t have had this most recent bloodbath.
But don`t worry. Do nothing, and we’ll have this conversation again tomorrow, when more people are dead for no reason except that you’re all terrified because there are guns everywhere…. Or perhaps next week when you have your next Sandy hook.
And you will have another Sandy hook for just as long as you do nothing.
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“… when more people are dead for no reason except that you’re all terrified because there are guns everywhere…”
Talk about leaving this planet and hiding on another… That is one of the strangest things I have read in a long while. You might get further in whatever it is your fighting for if you get yourself a bit of experience and education about the things you so far show a preference for misunderstanding.
I’m an actual victim of a violent crime (not a gun crime which most aren’t of course) and even I don’t run around terrified of anything, far from it.
I know many people with anxiety disorders and other mood disorders, people with phobias, people who have PTSD. I’ve conversed with many anti-gun nazi’s. I have never had a single conversation with any human who is actually fearful of guns in a real and personal sense or who actually engages in worrying about if there is a gun near them or some gun about to develop a life of its own and come kill them or even if there might be a bad guy who has a gun that might come at them. The only thing I have in my experience to relate to that is a family I knew that moved to this country from South Africa and ended up having to move back to South Africa because their kids were terrified of living in homes without bars on the windows to keep the bad men out. That is what parents in that country sometimes tell their kids about not having to be afraid of bad people is that the bars on the windows protect them. But you keep telling yourself whatever it is that gives you permission to hold onto your paradigm and your angst.
Just out of curiosity, do you take your crazy to Swiss blogs to harass the Swiss people with your agenda and your determination to believe falsehoods too? I could only wish my neighborhood was as flush with guns as Switzerland.
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Strange, why? The fat kid was shot because the police thought he had a gun. The guy in the car was shot because the policeman knew he had a gun and thought he was reaching for it. The lunatic who shot up Dallas had an assault rifle he, no doubt, purchased legally.
But don’t worry. Love your guns, and enjoy your next Sandy Hook.
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“Strange, why? ”
Clearly and completely answered before even asked. Does being obtuse usually work well for you? The hateful harm wishing and the ugly sarcasm of telling people to enjoy the tragedy you are hoping they face (and implying a load of fallacious stuff about) is not making your cause look like anything other than the hate and ignorance that clearly is all about.
Dust… feet… done…
It is a blessed day today in so many ways. I hope everyone is enjoying it!
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Hateful? By encouraging peace and trust in the hope of reducing pointless violence?
Interesting.
Bu okay, if you say that’s hate-filled, then I guess it must be hate-filled…
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@fromscratchmom
“Just out of curiosity, do you take your crazy to Swiss blogs to harass the Swiss people with your agenda and your determination to believe falsehoods too? I could only wish my neighborhood was as flush with guns as Switzerland.”
A typical and common misrepresentation used by the gun lobby. Do you know anything about Switzerland and why it has so many guns? As they have no standing army, they have a rather unique national militia. Around two thirds of the male population undergo military and weapons training as part of their conscripted national service. I fail to see how a country populated by trained military personnel who store there weapons at home is comparable with the situation in the USA.
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As a matter of fact, I do know quite a bit about it. It is not a misrepresentation at all, nor does it have anything to do with the gun lobby. It’s a fact that the guns are there and are there for a reason. Whenever any tried to imply that there’s no training, no responsibility, and/or no reason in the US for gun ownership, that is rife with intellectual dishonesty.
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You are not a priesthood here to witness darkness. You are participants in a society, and you know what you could actually do as opposed to simply proselytizing a religion built upon a historical cartoon? Actively campaign against guns in your country, and by doing so encourage peaceful accord within your communities…
Do something.
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@the little apostle of atheism zande:
‘For such a time as this…………….’ Amen to this.
A time to stand against your imbecilic and incessant points of irrelevance and pornography, and to point out your alleged and self imagined intellect as higher than God Himself.
But here’s a question, observation, and a suggestion as to your fear of power tools such as ‘guns.’
If you were starving to death would you shoot a squirrel to save your life?
a. If you would then you are the ultimate hypocrite.
b. If not, then you are an idiot with no common sense.
Now then, thank God for the ability to act above that of an animal, and admit for once in your life that God is not the evil monster of your own delusions, and take note of people who appreciate the scriptures and who act according to the principles of righteousness, are good and decent; people such that frequent this place.
One can only hope…………………..
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How many guns do you own and carry, John
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Here jz-
A apologize to ib22 for this shameless
paste from my own site, but it answers your question:
— How do you justify a ‘gun page’ with a Christian or God-fearing point of view?
Easily. Having an understanding of sin and the possible depraved acts of man, guided by the right to defend life and property puts a person in a good position to guard that which God has entrusted. The very best of arms are they unused but available.–
So then yes, I have many of all sorts and purposes. Some fine craftsmanship too. Gunship is a great sport, as is archery.
I also have many other power and hand tools which are quite convenient when needed.
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Oh, I know you evangelicals dance the merry dance in justifying gun ownership. David McDonnough wrote a whole apologia on it
http://appliedfaith.org/2015/10/06/can-christians-carry-concealed-weapons/
Of course, this also means children should be stoned to death, gays should be killed, and adulterers murdered, but hey, what’s a little hypocrisy between friends, huh?
Enjoy your guns. I’m sure they make you feel like a man.
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Stop it john.
You have dirty hands to hold the scriptures. Answer the question:
Would you shoot a squirrel so you do not starve to death?
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You often hunt sqirrels to eat in Pennsylvania, John?
Interesting.
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Well then jonz, let’s forget about your inability to determine whether you should starve to death while you watch a squirrel play tag with his friend.
Let’s forget about the fact that you are so fearful of pulling a trigger that you would choose death so the furry critter could live.
Let’s forget about the fact that you cannot a simple question (for the third time) that proves you cannot judge the value of a human life over Bullwinkles friend Rocky.
Let’s ignore the fact that we are not speaking about ‘hunting’ here, and let’s ignore the fact that at whatever cost, you MUST steer a convo into the weeds.
So then, can you in the midst of unannounced tragedy, rejoice three times?
Can you hope where there is no evidence or reason to do do?
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Well nothing wrong in thinking that ur day can go good even during hard times.. I’m sure u accept things as they come but then just a feeling that u can get over the tough situation can be relaxing enough for tired mind sometimes .. Isn’t it. ?
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Yes, let us relax those tired minds, indeed 🙂
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“What if we are the right people at the right time, specifically made for such a time as this?” What you say right there is so key IB to rising above difficulties. This can be dealing issues on a national/global level as your post referes to but also with personal harships too that make us yearn for an island in the niddle of nowhere with endless umbrella drinks.
Escapism, apathy and indifference are all part of the same coping mechanism of denial and who can blame people for it in this age of absurdity? We must however rise above those feelings and press forward.
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Ah, the middle of nowhere with endless umbrella drinks. I’m liking this vacation spot! Irtfy can get us a whole planet, I’ll bring the paper umbrellas, and we should all get together and have a grand old time. Never say never, stranger things have happened 🙂
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You are on, I will bring the chips/dip, perhaps ColorStorm and Wally can handle the BBQ stuff!
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“Perhaps we are a royal priesthood, called into being for such a time as this, to spread the good news and offer hope to a broken world.”
Perhaps? No, we certainly are.
[1 Pet. 2:9-10 NASB] 9 But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God’s OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 10 for you once were NOT A PEOPLE, but now you are THE PEOPLE OF GOD; you had NOT RECEIVED MERCY, but now you have RECEIVED MERCY.
“… we are called to “rejoice, and again I say rejoice.” Three times, ….”
[Phl 4:4 NASB] 4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, rejoice!
How do you get to “three times”?
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“How do you get to “three times”?”
Sorry, that is just a bit of fun semantics. We are told to re-joice, “re” meaning we already have joy once. Than we are told to re-joy, and again re-joy, so it adds up to 3 joys in total, as in you don’t have to tell me three times 🙂
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Life looks really good and sunny here on my deck. Last night’s heavy rain left my well-watered flowers lush, healthy and strong. The gentle dappled sun along the edge of the hedge invites peace and calm. The flowers, hedges and trees block my view of everything else. I think I’ll just stay blissfully, ignorantly here all day. Maybe forever.
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Oh, how wonderful that sounds. I do have a bit of a garden sheltered among the trees and it’s a great place to take refuge from the world. From the movie Karate Kid, just repeat after me, “the sky is blue, the grass is green…..”
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Some times it can fool me for a minute, all that blue sky and green grass…
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Oooh..ooh. Let me come. I’ll be there in about 14 hours or so?
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Anytime Wally. The tomatoes will be ripe soon, we can have a salsa fest.
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Ohhhh.Salsa good
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I really appreciate this post, IB. I think one issue we face is how well we have processed the things that have happened in our past experience. We have reason to rejoice even though we sometimes have reasons to mourn as well. We get ourselves into trouble when we haven’t dealt with our stuff. Sometimes we haven’t properly dealt with it. Sometimes we haven’t completely dealt with it. Sometimes we haven’t dealt with it at all. And weirdly sometimes we really did try and really thought we had and we discover it is still effecting us and we still have some work to do to turn ourselves around a bit more and a bit more.
I’m not exactly a pessimist or a cynic but I definitely have more of a tendency towards that now than ever before. I used to without realizing it have a bit of that totally fallacious “just do it” or “just do something” type attitude. I thought the solution was always to try harder, to never give up, etc. etc. And in the process over the years always trying to take responsibility for everything and most of all for my part in everything I’ve kind of wrecked my endocrine system which was never set up to bear the weight of everything for the whole world. And while there are certainly merits to having a great work ethic and to not giving up there are times when we are wiser to recognize a different path, including but not limited to recognizing what is someone else’s to fix. Sometimes working harder or “just doing something” is stealing someone else’s responsibility. Sometimes its failing to lean on God and get needed help.
It is hard to explain the experience of healing and being torn down at the same time, but it can happen. I’ve learned a ton. I’ve grown a ton but I’m not done yet. I’m better than ever before. And yet I need to keep healing and growing.
I had a good cry this morning over this fact when I read an article a friend posted to FB.
https://communicatingacrossboundariesblog.com/2015/09/28/stupid-phrases-for-people-in-crisis/
I started leaking buckets as I got to the end and realized I’m in stage 1 with life’s most recent trials. I’ve been trying for all I’m worth to start healing while I’m still bleeding. Sometimes you have to endure as Job endured. The healing will pickup the pace after the cutting stops. I’m not even sure will that be with the big moment of legal closure or later after my youngest is 18. I guess it all depends on several different factors. For now the attacks are ongoing and have to be faced for a little while longer.
But everything here and now is temporal. None of it is forever. None of it is final.
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If we approach every circumstance in life with the mindset: “God brought me to this point for a reason” how vastly different (are far more effective) our response would be. We need more Mordecai’s who possess that perspective. 😀
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That’s an awesome concept, Elihu. If we stop believing in coincidences and bad luck and try to receive what we have been handed with a positive attitude, it can change everything.
I sometimes say, rather than asking “why me,” we should ask, “why not me? Am I not worthy of this task?” I often have my doubts, but I suspect God doesn’t. He knows us better than we know ourselves.
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Dallas, and most other recent acts of mass violence, explained in less than ten sentences:
http://nightwind777.blogspot.com/2016/07/the-dallas-shooting.html
If we wish to rise above these problems, identifying the problems and admitting that we have them is the first step.
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Exactly. If our culture produces Micah Johnson-types as national policy, we have no one to blame but ourselves.
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“I long for another place, another time, another dimension, knowing full well the good old days never really existed, but regardless that is the wrong attitude to have anyway.”
I can’t help but think that John Zande makes a good point when he says “do something”. Every country obviously has its problems, but the gun problem in the USA which doesn’t affect similar countries with gun controls in place is something that really can change, if people will just see past the … what is it? Is it brainwashing from gun lobbies? Is it fear? Is it inability to support change? There’s no hope if you don’t look for change.
Hope in things you can’t see, wishing badness away, isn’t a good long-term strategy. Get political and look to the evidence.
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What makes you think that IB is not “doing something”? You have no idea how she spends her day. Seems rather presumptive to me…
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Anita, you have missed the point. Not going it exactly the way John Zande and his pals dictate is doing nothing. They are all about freedom ya know. Freedom to do it their way and all other thoughts and ways must be eradicated
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So you think gun violence and massacres with assault weapons is ”going the right way”, Wally?
Just say so, if that is what you believe…
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Does it matter what I say John? That certainly qualifies for moronic question of the month.
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It matters what you say, but more importantly, it matters what you do.
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See John, that is the thing. You have no clue what I “do” You have know clue what IB “does” You don’t even know how either of us feels about the very subject you are railing about. You know nothing about any of this. That’s my point. But, sharing with you and your crew what one might “do” would be a colossal waste of time, because if they were not the things you would do and the way you would do them, then are are not actually doing anything.
So, smart guy, since you know exactly what I do or don’t do, why don’t you regal us all with a blow by blow description of my life and the ways in which I fill it? That’s right, John, you can’t do that. You can’t do it because you actually don’t know those things.
Put away your hatred and your broad brush. Quite doing the very things you spend apparently your entire existence accusing Christians of doing.
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You know nothing about any of this
Quite on the contrary, Wally. I’ve spoken to you both enough to know that both of you are pro-guns. I know Insanity does some volunteer work with old people. I’ve never heard her mention anything about campaigning against assault weapons.
Perhaps she can enlighten us… Insanity, do you support strict gun control and the curbing of gun violence in your country?
why don’t you regal us all with a blow by blow description of my life and the ways in which I fill it?
Your life? Well, I know you were in the military, and given what i see of you online, I think you’re a person who doesn’t like thinking for himself. That’s OK, there’s no problem with that, the world needs followers. You enjoyed the military (I know that) for this reason. It had structure. It had clear rules. You were told what to do, and you liked that. It was homely for you. When you left the military you were lost, and this is how you found religion. It’s just another way for you to be told what to do. This time, though, it’s not an officer, but your religion, your god. You think you’re serving something, and you like that. It gives meaning to your life which you can`t find by yourself. Joining the religion club suited you perfectly for this very reason. You fall in-line and act as you think other’s think you should act. You’re a follower. You wear the coat you’re told to wear, and you like being told what to wear. Again, there’s nothing wrong with that. I don`t think you’re a bad person, just lacking self-made substance.
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Oh puke, Zande! You have no idea of what you speak. Good grief! What would you know of followers and leaders? Your whole life is about trying to introduce people to their alleged malevolent Creator. What the heck is wrong with that picture??
Fall in line? I don’t think so. It is you have fallen in line, Zande.
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Regarding Wally, I think I hit the nail right on the head, Inanity.
So, do you support strict gun control? Do you campaign against assault weapons?
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I think you have no idea what you’re talking about when it comes to Wally. I think you couldn’t be farther from the truth if you tried.
As for falling in line Zande, I don’t think so. Gun rights are an important part of freedom in this country.
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Yes, those kids in Sandy Hook really enjoyed that Freedom, didn’t they?
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Not bad John. Most people usually guess a few things right. In you case, you actually got NOTHING right.
I am not pro gun( at least by the definition you use)]
Years elapsed between my military service and my conversion.
Depending some officer to direct my life? John, I was that officer directing lives.
Self made substance? I promise you John, I am as self made as they come. You sit on your liberal/intellectual throne of judgment and cast stones about issues you don’t actually understand, because you have never lived them. Trust me John, I have over come things you liberal elite blowhards have never lived.
So…gosh, maybe you should try again.
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No, I think I got it right the first time. You don’t think for yourself. That’s difficult for you, you need something else to give meaning to your life. You fall in line, and being in line makes you comfortable. It’s why you don’t question your religion. You never questioned your superiors in the military, did you? Sergeants don’t do that. But that’s not necessarily a bad thing.
How can I not “understand” this issue, Wally? In Australia we had a terrible massacre and our very conservative government (whom I generally vote for, for your information) did the right thing: they acted in common sense (as a public health issue) and banned weapons designed to kill human beings.
Many could say, they did the “Christian thing.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/08/02/did-gun-control-work-in-australia/
Pretty impressive results, huh?
So, do you campaign against guns in your country?
Are you doing anything?
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No, he misses the point.
Whether one supports strict gun control or not, we ALL make an impact on each other for ill or for good. How odd to assume that IB needs to “do something”.
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Yes, I agree. And I was being snippy and sarcastic when I said that, not towards you though.
🙂
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Regarding guns? Why not ask her… Insanity, do you work towards less gun violence (strict gun laws, the banning of assault weapons, etc.) in your country?
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No, not just regarding guns. I am no lover of guns, I actually firmly believe in strict gun control – the stricter the better, as far as I’m concerned. It’s very difficult for me to understand American attitudes towards gun ownership and the unwillingness to acknowledge that unfettered gun ownership is causing a freaking problem for y’all! Your Second Amendment, as it currently functions, has been perverted. Why would you NOT want to fix that?
But I digress. 😀
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Sorry, for cut off…
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No problem. I share your sentiments on the matter.
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I just think that there’s more to be done than simply enacting strict gun control. This is a complex problem which will require a complex approach to solving it.
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Absolutely, I agree.
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The point is, for all we know, IB is directing her efforts to a different aspect of the problem.
I don’t know her well, but based on what she writes, I suspect she takes a larger view of the problem. I think it’s fair to say that she would see fun violence a part of a wider problem.
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My point is, it’s not a panacae. Strict gun control and fewer gun deaths will not solve all ills. Trust me, if we eliminated guns entirely, we’d just find other ways to be shitty to each other.
IB is entitled to have her own priorities. I am saying, how do you know that she does not direct her efforts to other issues? Perhaps she takes a larger view of the world’s ills.
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Instead of controlling guns, they need to start controlling nutcases and enforcing laws. Start by suppressing criminal organizations like Black Lives Matter. Russia has gun control, but the reason things like this don’t happen in Russia is because their police enforce laws and put down Anarchists and Terrorists before they strike. Switzerland has little gun control, and things like this don’t happen in Switzerland for the same reason.
Also, we need to get rid of these PC idiots and incompetents running our police departments, so that when can start getting professional and competent police officers again.
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Eric, I’m not proposing any specific remedy to the problem, but it’s clear that the ease with which firearms may be accessed in your country is a problem.
As Christians, we are called to love our neighbour, to suffer for them, if called to. Your Second Amendment, and the rights that it confers, is wreaking unintentional consequences in your country. Insisting on preserving those rights at the expense of the lives of others, is not a loving position to take.
As Christians, we should be leading the charge here. We should be concerned with preserving ALL lives.
If your country is really committed to reducing gun violence, a change in heart will have to take place. It will require some suffering, giving up some rights for the sake of preserving the lives of others.
I’m probably gonna get clobbered for saying this, but isn’t this exactly what we (Christians) are asking women in unwanted pregnancies to do? We may not agree with it, but their right to end a pregnancy, under law, is as constitutionally protected as gun rights are. It seems inconsistent to me to argue that, for the sake of preserving lives, one group should give up their rights while the other group gets a pass.
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Interesting Anitvan! And downright Canadian of you. 🙂
The importance and significance of gun rights to Americans can be a challenging thing to explain to people. Basically we view them as protection from violence, not the cause of it.
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I kinda see it as both 🙂
I grew up with guns in our house. My dad liked to hunt for game meat – moose, deer, rabbits, some fowl. He kept his guns in a locked display case with the ammo locked in his workshop, but the guns were in full display in the rec room. They were a non-issue. None of us ever tried to touch them. My dad impressed upon us how dangerous they are. We had no interest in them. Later, in my teens, my dad allowed me to fire his rifle. I fired it once. It wasn’t life-changing or anything, lol.
I won’t pretend to understand the significance, but I can respect that it is important to you.
I firmly believe that compromise and sacrifice is needed from both sides if any progress is to be made on the goal of reducing gun violence.
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Well, I don’t think guns are the root of the problem, I think those lost boys are, toxic masculinity, the breakdown of families, a lack of leadership. I love men dearly and of course women can be violent too, but every one of these acts of violence are perpetrated by young men, everything from drive by shootings, to terrorism. Every single incident. To me that means we are failing our boys in some way, that our culture is leaving them behind, that they are not being taught how to direct their aggression in positive ways.
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I don’t think guns are the root of the problem either and I agree with your assessment of the root causes. Its a complex issue with complex causes.
It’s in this sense that you are “doing something”, which is what I was getting at when I said you take a “larger view”. You spend much time addressing what you see as the root causes, and while zande may not support your conclusions, it can hardly be said that you are doing nothing.
Still, to my Canadian ears, it’s hard for me to reconcile advocating gun rights (as they currently exist in your country) with concern for the welfare of my neighbour. The two seem antithetical to me. *shrugs* Cultural differences, I suppose.
Firearms do serve a legitimate purpose (defense, protecting innocent life) but under the current system they’re being abused. Restricting the ease of access to firearms won’t end senseless killings, by gun or otherwise, but it sure will reduce the body count.
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John:
In the lifetimes of most of us here, Americans could once legally own machineguns and purchase dynamite and nitroglycerin at the hardware store. I remember as a teenager, you could buy rifles and shotguns and ammunition at places like Walmart. We used to bring rifles to high school because we had a Sharpshooting team but had to provide our own guns.
But also back then, school nurses weren’t pumping kids full of methamphetamines and kids who were violent troublemakers got sent to reform schools.
Gun control isn’t going to solve that. We have deeper problems than access to weapons.
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Antivan, I’d suggest that there are perhaps assumptions you are making that are incorrect and even dangerous when you try to claim that those you disagree with on a political agenda are unChristian for daring to see the problems and possible solutions very differently than you do. I am pro-second-amendment and it has nothing to do with exchanging some lives for others or devaluing any life. In fact it’s really the exact opposite. The fact that there are people from other countries who think they know and understand deeply everything about American politics and issues and then come on the Internet to tell Americans what is perfectly clear to them about a country they say they can’t claim is always incredible to me. When I have sometimes in the past corresponded seriously with people from other countries I’ve never once lectured them or made definitive statements to them about what I think is clear about them and their country. I’ve spoken to them about what we each know or think and why, which is a very different type of conversation, and far more productive. It’s a marvelous experience sharing and learning and questioning and clarifying.
You may be just flat out wrong about many things you assume (or think you know from educating yourself.) Even to say women’s right to murder children is constitutionally protected the same as the second amendment protects gun rights is a fallacy. It shows a lack of understanding of the constitution, the interaction between the constitution and the judiciary and of just how many constitutional experts and average folks have sound reasoning and advocate for calling row v wade a bad judicial decision that needs to be overturned.
I have to honestly ask, do you even know that THE foundational concept underlying all American civil rights is that they are God-given and cannot be given or taken by the government? That the entire purpose of most of what our founding fathers did was to allow for government to exist while making it more far important to protect people from government? Do you know the difference in timing and intent between the first 10 amendments and the rest? Do you know that the entire purpose of the second amendment is to allow “justifiable defensive” violence against the government meaning citizens need to own weaponry that can rival what the government owns in order to fulfill said purpose?
To remove all of that and corrupt the entire foundation of American government in the name of crusading against gun violence would be to accept the notion that it’s OK to potentially condemn millions to death and/or torture and/or anything else that could come their way according to all the government led travesties of history in the name of a single political agenda and the propaganda of those who push that agenda.
If I were to follow your form of assumption and accusation I’d have to tell you that your lack of concern for the holocaust and for the millions killed by Lenin and Stalin, for the slaughtered Armenians, and so many other victims of government led evil and your willingness to advocate for the creation of such government corruption in America in order to shame Americans for your personal viewpoint about their “gun problems” is not loving and not Christian.
I don’t think that’s really the way you view the issue…or perhaps I should say that I doubt that fits with who you are. I don’t think you deserve that. But please tell me why your agenda for America is worth making those types of assumptions? Is it truly an impossibility in your mind that there may be more to these issues than you have previously considered or understood? Is it truly inconceivable to you that a person could love and protect others and yet not do so by asking to be rid of the second amendment?
As a Christian I’m perfectly willing to suffer for others, even those who are harming me. As you may be aware from experience that’s just a regular part of the Christian walk in our day to day lives. That is not the direct equivalent of wanting to destroy the constitution and be free of the American concept of civil rights.
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Please forgive me, it was not my intention to imply that holding pro-gun views in any way precludes one from being a Christian! My assumption (and this is whether I am dealing with another Christian or not) is that the other person is looking at the issue from “what is the loving thing to do here?” That’s my starting point – I choose to put the best construction on the motives of others, assuming that they will approach a given issue from a perspective of love. But even Christians can disagree on what constitutes the loving thing to do.
I honestly don’t see this as a political issue (though I agree it has been polititized). I see this as a people-are-dying issue.
Its true that I approach this from a different cultural perspective, and a different experience. We don’t abhor guns in Canada. In fact, we manage to co-exist with them relatively peacefully.
So as a Christian living in Canada, with a different experience in terms of “gun culture”, gun violence, etc., I’ve drawn different conclusions about what the truly loving position is here. We both want to protect innocent lives, but we’ve got different ideas about what that looks like.
In Christian goodwill I was offering my own perspective. I guess I thought I had enough “street creds” here, lol, that it would be accepted in that spirit. Another Christian perspective when considering what constitutes a loving response to balancing the needs of defending and protecting citizens from government abuse and protecting its citizens from, let’s face it, a gun violence epidemic that demonstrably takes lives.
I did intend to challenge the thinking on this issue, from a Christian perspective only, apart from any political ideology, and I do sincerely apologize and regret for coming off all snotty. My remarks were truly meant in love no matter how badly I conveyed that.
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Something that I think is quite lovely, what Christians are doing even in the midst of heated debate, is arguing about how best to love one another, how to make the world a better place. If you scratch beneath the surface, that is what is at the root of all our debates. That really is remarkable, miraculous, because it’s so contrary to human nature.
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Thank-you so much for your very loving and wonderfully clarified response. The truth is that you do have street cred here that goes a long way with me. 😉 I don’t tend to normally engage debaters over the Internet with these highly politicized issues (or other highly emotional issues) for a lot of different reasons, including but not limited to knowing how difficult it is to get to a point of productive conversation and knowing how easy it is to misunderstand, be misunderstood, or as commonly happens with Internet agenda and the bad internet behavior of many (people? Poodles? Hard to say some days…lol) to be intentionally mischaracterized and obstructed.
I do abhor any violent crime that goes on (here or anywhere else) whether it involves guns or not. My primary actions (“doing something”) usually involve open, loving conversation with anyone and everyone who I get the opportunity to engage on related topics which often leads me to either offering support to victims (usually of non-gun related sex crimes which is a far more common thing to run into than victims of gun crimes) or discussion of our human brokenness and need for Jesus who can heal us all and prayers for God to send workers and help more people come to him and experience true healing.
Most people in America who own legal guns and their neighbors and friends and family also all manage to co-exist peacefully with guns. It’s the goofiest thing to me when you see someone in a show see a gun under a jacket or otherwise just hanging out on a person’s body and start screaming and melting down “GUN!!!” And then chaos ensues. No one reacts like that in real day to day life. People see guns. People know guns exist and are around. People are protected by guns. Most people who are not actively involved in politicizing gun violence and trying to overturn the constitution have no fear of gun ownership nor any reason to politicize gun-related tragedies, which to be frank make up an incredibly small part of American problems that we need to face as a society. We need Jesus just like people every where in the world. We need many many things that generally sound political to try to discuss. And even in relation to certain tragedies that are clearly related to guns we need to make important changes if we can. Sadly one of our troubles is that our society has become quite fragmented and polarized mostly from the driving force of loudly persistently screaming people (often atheists) with political and social agendas as evidenced in Roe v Wade which is openly documented to have involved dishonesty and a fraudulent set-up, as evidenced here by a screaming-type totally obstructionist commenter.
Personally if I could be an incredibly successful crusader for societal change (or suddenly the dictator everyone loved who changed everything for the better), the next thing down the list I’d do for everyone after helping them find Jesus would be to get everyone off of food additives and residual food toxins and the majority of psych meds; onto a whole foods, nutrient-dense diet; as well as onto a healthy sleep schedule with no screen-time (or electric light of any kind above 5 lumens) between 8 at night and 8 in the morning. And I’d abolish daylight savings time too while I was at it. Then I’d teach them Buteyko breath work exercises and maybe even tai chi or chi gong…and before you know it half of society’s ills from mood disorders, first time serious violent psychotic episodes, and just plain bad moods would disappear.
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How about, rejoice AND pass the spam?
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As usual, great post IB. Well said.
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Cute,
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See it sounds to me like you’re implying that what IB invests her time in (visiting old folks) is a less valuable pursuit than what you would suggest (protesting gun rights). Or am I wrong here?
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^^ @ john zande
Thread has got convoluted!
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Interesting and very honest post, IB. 🙂 Re: “Hope” I prefer to look at things through Tony Robbins (yes, him!)’s formula for happiness: Happiness = (Expectations:Outcomes) x Degree of Control. If I believe that my life is higher/lower than it should be, but I feel a high degree of control, then I am generally happy and I have much hope for the future. If I don’t feel like I have a lot of control, then I suppose hope wanes but I don’t find myself in that situation at all?
The religious angle on that is interesting – who’s really got the control? The whole “who controls where I end up?” question comes in to play on the one hand, and the “chosen path” vs. “defined path” comes in to play on the other.
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