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America, Christianity, faith, insanitybytes22, internet culture, news, opinion, politics, tragedy
“What will the racist Christians do now? Will they hate on gays or Muslims?” Those words and others just like them came through my facebook feed in response to the tragic shooting in Orlando yesterday. It hurts to be misjudged, to be mocked and ridiculed, to be labeled a hater when nothing could be farther from the truth.
To add insult to injury, all but about five people on facebook are my friends and family. These aren’t strangers saying these words, these aren’t keyboard warriors, these are people I walk along side of in real life. Friends. This is what they really think of me, of my faith, that I’m a racist and a bigot. This is the environment I have tried to raise my children in, tried to convince them that Jesus Christ is the way and the truth and the life. A tough sell, because who wants to be an outcast, thought to be a bigot, a hater, an oppressor who could walk into a night club and mow down innocent people?
Oh wait, that’s not what a happened at all, but it doesn’t really matter does it? Perception is 99% of the truth and what we perceive to be true often rules the day. Christians didn’t do that, I didn’t do that, my God didn’t do that, but I can protest till the cows come home, I can speak the truth from the rooftops and yet I cannot stop the tsunami of lies that shape people’s perceptions.
I started to get angry about a decade ago. I am a servant, I care for people’s elderly relatives, I clean houses. I’ve lived in this community for decades. I don’t hate, I love people. I nurture, cherish, and serve people. The truth of who and what I am, doesn’t speak to anyone, they can’t even see me, I am invisible as an individual, completely erased. Right in front of me, they speak of the horrors of Christians, right in front of my children they shame and mock and ridicule His followers. We’re all crazy, psychotic, hateful, bigots.
I’ve swallowed bitter for so long, kept quiet, kept the peace, until one day I just had enough and said, no, you can’t be hating on me, you’re not talking about some obscure group out there, you’re talking about me, you’re disrespecting me. You’re disrespecting the God I serve, you’re disrespecting His people. And you’re lying, you are flat-out lying.
I understand what bigotry really is, and racism too, I’ve been there. I know what it is like to be erased as a person, to be assigned a group identity that isn’t even true, to be dehumanized. To be lumped in with the lowest common denominator and blamed for crimes you didn’t commit, if only in the court of public opinion.
I probably don’t need to tell you that I am now rather friendless, that so many of my relationships of the last 40 years have been based on a lie, they were dependant on my ability to swallow the bitter and keep my mouth shut, to let the lies float by, to deny I was a Christian or to at least keep silent about it.
This country needs to come to grips with the fact that all things are not equal, that Islamic terrorism is not caused by alleged Christian bigotry, that denying the truth that is evident all around us is downright dangerous. We need to name the evil for what it is and address it and hold it accountable. What we are doing right now is just insane.
Christians need to speak up too, loudly, becasue children are watching us, becasue children are learning about what is perceived as socially acceptable and what is not. We can raise our kids in faith but it can be very challenging for them when the world is telling them that Christians are bad, dangeous, potentially violent. That theme already dominates my neck of the woods and if we don’t create a culture of acceptance all across this country we will have failed our children. When following Jesus Christ becomes socially unnacceptable and politically incorrect, few will be strong enough to follow Him.
I’m not complaining here, but it is hurtful, challenging, painful for someone like me, older, rooted in faith, who really doesn’t give a crap about what people think. To someone younger who cares a great deal about their social groups, public approval, being a member of the community, this kind of environment would soon become unbearable.
Call me a bigot if you must, but I happen to object to an ideology that mows down gays in a nightclub, that tosses them from a tower, that stones women to death, that crucifies children. Wake up people, before it’s too late. These aren’t Christian values that are threatening us.
See, there's this thing called biology... 
You’re spot on – Ask one question – What philosophies are tolerant of others and recognize their free will and which do not? Let them throw bricks – they’ll have the same effect as those cast in a stream. Waves die quickly.
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IB, I empathize in part with the estrangement you feel from your family. I faced that potential when I first came to the Lord. The problem is this: When you say you were “lumped in with the lowest common denominator and blamed for crimes you didn’t commit,” so are our neighbor Muslims lumped in with extremist “Muslims,” just as you and I are lumped in with extremist “Christians” who are hateful bigots.
Let’s face it, instead of decrying Sunday morning’s events as an act of horrific terrorism, a few self-proclaimed Christians are popping up on social media declaring this an act of God punishing sinful people.
Most Christians are not like that. Most Christians would find that statement to be bigoted and hateful. Yet, there are extremists who give the rest of us a bad name because they are the ones who get publicity.
Not all Muslims are members of Isis or the Taliban; in fact, they are just as horrified by violent, hateful acts committed in the name of Islam as we are. An ideology did not gun down people in a nightclub in Orlando; a sick, hateful extremist gunman with an automatic rifle did. Even his own father disowned his actions and apologized to the families.
So instead of allowing our own anger to fester, we need to speak out in love; we need to help the world (and our relatives) understand most of us are not like those extremists. Most of us who follow Jesus come from love and grace. Most of us are not angry, divisive bigots. And most of us understand that God created all of us, and wants all of us to be saved.
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Yes, but still there’s a big difference here. I go out and speak against hateful Christians bigots all the time. Think about that! Christian bigots are misguided, they shoot off their mouths, but for the most part they don’t go out and execute innocent civilians. We’re acting like all things are equal here and they just aren’t. A Christian bigot is someone who refuses to bake a wedding cake, while an Islamic bigot throws gays off a tower, beheads them, and mows them down in a nightclub. If we don’t start understanding all things are not equal here, we’re going to be in a world of hurt.
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I see your point; on the other hand, hateful Christians have also bombed abortion clinics. Then of course there’s the Westboro Baptist Church.
I have to weigh both sides. Maybe Muslim extremists have more firepower, but we can’t discount the violence Christians in our own time have done in the name of God.
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IB, as much as your president and all your gov’t organizations are saying the Orlando attacker was a terrorist – he was not. A terrorist has to act for political purposes = no political agenda, not a terrorist. the attacker was a home grown American who looked around for an organization that believed what he wanted to justify – i.e. hatred of gays – and used them as a justification for his actions. ISIS was pleased that he did that but did you notice that they did not take responsibility? The full power of the US gov’t already investigated this guy – they followed him, they tapped his phones, they looked at every electronic communication and they found nothing. He IS NOT a terrorist. It is just darned convenient to say he is because it is easier than dealing with the fact that a good American born boy hated so much that he was willing to kill gays. From my observation there is much such hatred in your society. He just happened to be willing to act on his words.
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I’m pretty sure our president and all our Gov officials refused to name Islam and ISIS in this attack. And “terrorism” is a tactic, not membership in a group or a foreign nationality.
“From my observation there is much such hatred in your society. He just happened to be willing to act on his words.”
No. Given our population, the amount of propaganda out there, the number of guns owned, if our society was filled with hate, you’d all be dead now.
That perception, America as the great satan, filled with radicalized haters is a bit of mediated reality being falsely sold to the world at large.
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Perhaps so IB – but I have to say that I used to spend a lot of time in the US – most of my life for 10 years – and I found such hatred in the Bible Belt as would curl your toes. And 30 of your southern states refuse to help refugees – women and children who are starving to death, whose lives are in jeopardy in their origin countries, who don’t have a pot to piss in – because they are MUSLIM. As a white, male, adult, Christian, Caucasian, English speaking, North American – I rarely feel hated. But I have eyes and I see many who are hated and those who hate them. Remember, my mother is lesbian – I’ve seen the hatred in action.
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I used to have a similar view. However, the more I look into moderate Islam countries the more I find that it’s not just the extremists who do evil things. In Dubai, which is supposed to be a progressive muslim city, a woman can be given a prison sentence for being raped if she comes forward without the rapists confession. In Sweden sexual assaults and rapes have gone up by 1,470% since they brought in Syrian refugees (and on top of that it’s interesting to note the police in Sweden are not allowed to identify muslim assailants as muslim). There are many Islamic countries where it is legal and common to do “honour killings” (for example killing some one for converting from Islam to anything else). This isn’t ISIS or the Taliban, this is regular every day stuff from supposedly moderate Islamic countries.
The main difference between muslims and christians is that christians can refer back to Jesus of they take their faith to a crazy place. Islam’s most holy prophet and central figure is Muhammed. The ideology that is behind killing gay people and all the other things I mentioned falls in line with Muhammed’s teachings. An ex-muslim woman named Farah Prudence made a video a while ago which addresses this well.
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Thank you for the reference. I will look up her address; I am willing to learn.
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I’ve gone to her you Tube sight and already bookmarked several videos to watch. Thanks again.
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I’m glad you’re taking such an interest! I didn’t expect that. I must thank you as well for looking into this for yourself. 🙂 Whatever conclusion you come to that in itself has gained my respect. 🙂
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I did so because your response to me was honest and made with humility and grace. I appreciated that as well. If only all of us could come together in discussion with respect and grace. Perhaps more minds and hearts would be opened.
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Definately! 🙂
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Perhaps learning what islam is about from an ex-muslim is like learning what Christianity is about from an ex-Christian, not really as objective as would be desirable. There is a big problem with fundamentalist islam all over the world, but it doesn’t resolve anything to claim that islam is just inherently bad. Perhaps you could check out Sufism or the poet Rumi if you want to learn about the different faces of islam. Also, in islam prophet Muhammed is known as a gentle, patient man who spoke out against social, economic and even ecological injustice.
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I thought that for a long time too. I would hear so many testimonies from people who left Islam and said it is not what we think is, but I gave Islam the benefit of the doubt. However, after seeing how countries with Islam as the dominating culture treat women, gay people, and ex-muslims, I started to view it differently. As well, I have heard a lot of horrible things about the kind of man Muhammed was. One source I learned this from was my Uncle, who read the entire Quaran from front to back, and studied up on the historical figure of Muhammed as well, and he found that he was a very disturbed man who had a tendency for all kinds of sexual abuse, and a desire for subjection of all who apposed Allah. I have heard such things from many sources. I didn’t want to jump to conclusions, but I simply cannot ignore the cultural impact that moderate Islam has had in other countries.
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As someone who has lived in the Middle East and studied the region at a university level, I can tell you that the politics and governments there have very little to do with Islam. How can it, when Muhammad said in his final sermon before he died: “There is no superiority for an Arab over a non-Arab, nor for a non-Arab over an Arab. Neither is the white superior over the black, nor is the black superior over the white — except by piety.” And what do we find in the Islamic countries? Blatant racism and exploitation of east-Asian immigrant workers.
I have also done research about women’s rights in Saudi Arabia, so I’m very aware of the problem and what a far cry it is from what Muhammed preached, who said “do not hit the female believers of God” and “the best of you are those who are best to their wives.” Perhaps you might also like to look up how the Church Fathers (who were declared saints) wrote about women in that time.
What would I think of Christianity if I read the Bible without looking up any exegesis? Didn’t Jesus say that he came to bring a sword, and not peace? And didn’t he ask of his apostles to desert their families, who were dependent on these apostles for their livelihood? Didn’t he also say that his way was the only way to the kingdom of heaven? And aren’t some sources saying that Mary was 14 years old when she conceived Jesus?
You say your uncle studied up on the historical figure of Muhammed, what were his sources? I hope not the internet. If you don’t wan’t to jump to conclusions, don’t rely on hearsay, but read a peer-reviewed, as objective as possible book on the subject and listen to how Muslims experience their faith. I’m not suggesting there isn’t anything problematic in the Islamic tradition to our modern eyes and ears, but so there is in the Bible. The issue is how do you deal with those problematic elements? How have Muslim scholars throughout the ages interpreted the problematic verses in the Qur’an? How did they treat the Christians and Jews who lived in their empire when Islam was at the height of its power? (Better than the Christian Byzantine empire treated their minorities, I can assure you.) This worldwide problem of growing fundamentalism isn’t going to go away by Western people claiming “oh, look how despicable your Islam is. I know you dedicate your life to praying, fasting, giving charity to the poor, reflecting on your behaviour towards others and asking God for forgiveness, and doing good works but I know what your religion is really about, because I am enlightened and you are not. You belong to the Middle Ages.”
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Hi Milena
Is that last sermon by Muhammad in the Qur’an?
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No, it’s part of the hadith-collection, or the collection of the sayings of Muhammad. Early Muslims who had been close to him recorded what they remembered hearing him say and this later grew into a science of separating true narrations from false ones by studying the chain of transmitters, if there are missing links to this chain, how often the narration has been transmitted, the reputation of the transmitters, etc. The two most authoritative collections today are Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim.
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Thanks Milena.
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You make a lot of good points.
I trust my Uncle, for he is a very intelligent and highly educated man, and I have never known him to draw conclusions on anything based on what he found on the internet. (I don’t think he even has any social media accounts lol) However, I myself have not gone to a library and picked up a book on the subject, much of what I have learned I found on the internet, so you’ve got me there.
I personally don’t mind when people read the bible with out looking up exegesis. There are plenty of people who could (and have) read all the exegesis in the world and that won’t change their perspective of Christianity if they have shut their hearts away from the Holy Spirit.
That last thought keeps giving me pause. It keeps getting me thinking of the Spirit of God in these faiths. My problem is not with Muslim people, but with Islam and the spirit behind it. Whatever spirit is in Islam cannot be the same as what is in Christ, for – unless I am mistaken – it is not accepted in Islam that Jesus and the father are one, and that He is the Lord and saviour of all the world. Any spirit that denies who Jesus is must be against him, and so the spirit behind Islam must be against Jesus. I suppose that is the crux of why I believe Islam is dangerous. That was kind of a tangent, but it just kept nagging at my brain.
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You are correct that in Islam, Jesus is seen as a Prophet and not as one with God, because Muslims see that as idolatry. I can understand your point of view as a convinced Christian, but personally I don’t see Islam as against Jesus, since he is mentioned very respectfully in the Qur’an and he is also called “the Word of God”.
If you believe that the Holy Spirit has no agency of his own, but is tied to the Son (the so-called Filioque, as is a common belief in Western Christianity) than there cannot be any room for the value of other religions. I personally find it interesting that in Eastern Orthodox Christianity, they have a different concept of the Holy Spirit, believing that he has an economy independent of that of the Son, though they are in service to one another. That way, the Holy Spirit can be present in Islam and other religions as well. If this subject is of interest to you, I suggest the writings of Georges Khodr, a Lebanese Greek-Orthodox Christian who has written extensively on the subject of dialogue and mutual understanding between Christianity and Islam.
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I do believe that the Holy Spirit is tied to the Son, for the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit are all one being. The Holy Spirit cannot be in service to Jesus while failing to witness that he is everything he said he is. I don’t believe it is possible to respectfully mention Jesus while claiming that he is not one with God, because that goes against what he said of himself.
By the way, I appreciate your calm dialogue with me. 🙂
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I respect your beliefs and I’m certainly not suggesting that they are bad or that you need to change them. All I wanted to say with my comments is that it’s important to gain impartial knowledge of other religions before we judge them, as to do otherwise leads to a lot of grief and suffering, as we can see at play now in the world, and that it’s possible to differ in belief but still hold a space of respect and openness for each other, a sort of ‘live and let live’.
Here are some verses in the Qur’an about Jesus, which might not be in line with your beliefs about him, but which you might, perhaps, appreciate:
“She [Mary] said: ‘How can I have a son when no man has ever touched me, nor am I an adulteress?’
He said: ‘Thus did your Lord speak: “It is a matter easy for Me. We shall make him a wonder to mankind and a mercy from Us-a decree ordained.” (Q. 19:20-21)
“We revealed the Book to Moses, and We sent after him messengers in succession; and We granted Jesus son of Mary evident miracles and strengthened him with the Holy Spirit. Whenever a messenger came to you with a message contrary to your whims, did you not grow arrogant, calling some liars and killing others?” (Q. 2:87)
“Remember when God said: ‘O Jesus, I shall cause you to die and make you ascend to Me. I shall purify you from those who blasphemed, and I shall raise those who followed you above those who blasphemed until the Day of Resurrection.” (Q. 3:55)
“Following upon their tracks We sent Jesus son of Mary, confirming what he already possessed of the Torah. To him We revealed the Evangel in which there is guidance and light, confirming what was in his hands of the Torah, a guidance and homily to the pious. So let those who follow the Evangel judge in accordance with what God revealed in it. (Q. 5:46)
* We refers to God according to the Islamic tradition, as apparently kings also spoke of themselves as “We”
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Well thank you for your kind disposition. 🙂 It is good to be careful not to make judgements without having appropriate knowledge or understanding, especially sense that is so easy to do.
Unfortunately I do not appreciate those scriptures, because they subtly suggest that Jesus has not always existed; that he was a creation of God rather than being the creator in the flesh, who was God and was with God from the beginning. I think this can cause fundamental flaws in understanding who Jesus is, and how important he truly is.
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Not to want to start a theological discussion here, but I wonder which denomination of Christianity you belong to? Isn’t the traditional view that Jesus has two natures, which are complete in him and unmixed, one human and temporary and one divine and eternal (i.e the Son)? And wasn’t monophysitism (i.e. Jesus was only divine, walking around in a human shell but not taking on a human nature) condemned as a heresy at the Council of Chalcedon? It was my understanding that talking about the Son (the Logos or Word of God, who has always existed) is not the same as talking about Jesus.
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I suppose I belong to the Mennonite denomination sense the churches I’ve attended have Mennonite backgrounds. I don’t like to validate denominational christianity though, sense Jesus wants the body of Christ to be one as he and the Father are one.
I think that in order to accept that theology one would have to ignore the scripture in Matthew chapter 3 which says that when Jesus was baptized the Spirit of God descended upon him and said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.” This makes it seem clear to me that Jesus is the Son.
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Ok, thank you for explaining your point of view and your background. 🙂
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Susan Irene F. you should also check out Mona Walter:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCJ9PioOPLstJs6b7gHQvlQ/feed
(not all of hers are in English but very good )
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I am with you in spirit and in truth ms bytes.
Well stated and of course we DO need to speak up, and LOUDLY. The stupidity, blindness, arrogance, and false assumptions, even lies by they who put believers in this camp of bastards (children of another father) cannot be denied.
So then by their fruits ye shall know them……. But some say ‘Hitler was a christian!!!.’ So then by their fruits ye shall know them….. These dastardly deeds by the most depraved of people cry out for a day of reckoning. Fortunately the Judge of all the earth shall do right, and never sleeps.
And yes, there is a friend that sticketh closer than a brother. And better yet, ‘I have called you friends,’ spoken by He who knows our innermost being. The temperature and trials of life only prove the reality of friendships, yes?
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Yes, amen, Colorstorm! I wish I could say more but I am just rendered a bit speechless today by all the calls to not “hate” and to not name evil for what it actually is.
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Hitler was indeed a Christian. In fact, he considered himself a very, very good Christian, and many, many Church leaders agreed.
Father Senn, a Catholic priest, writing in a Catholic publication, May 15, 1934:
Kirchenrat Julius Leutheuser, addressing German Christians in Saalfeld, August 30, 1933:
Cardinal Michael von Faulhaber, meeting of Bavarian bishops on his meeting with Adolf Hitler, December 13, 1936:
Catholic Hierarchy of Austria, March 18, 1938:
Bishop Hans Meiser of the Bavarian Evangelical-Lutheran Church, May 18, 1938:
There’s more, but you get the point.
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Ha!
‘Hitler considered himself a very, very good christian………..and many, many Church leaders agreed.’
Sure, and these same people have no doubt seen chickens do the foxtrot. Can you hear the laughing hyenas?
Fortunately, scripture supercedes the idiotic opinions of men and exposes the wheat from the tares.
Btw, the excellent host here has already dismissed such nonsense in the post:
‘I can speak the truth from the rooftops and yet I cannot stop the tsunami of lies that shape people’s perceptions.’
Wake up already to the truth of scripture, and the hungry wolves that devour mens minds. Don’t be a casualty of your own bias and ignorance.
The truth shall set you free.
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“The truth shall set you free.” Ahhh, my favorite words. Those and, “Christ came to set the captives free.” Freedom and truth, those are lovely blessings indeed.
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Yeah, I sense the proper rage……………………..but sometimes more is less………… 😉
Your last sentence in the post is awesome. Good stuff friend.
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I’ll be your kind, loving friend! I “get” you as there are some similarities to our lives. I’m so blessed I’m just typing “AMEN” to all my friends posts in my FB newsfeed. Just remembered our Lord’s Words:
“If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first.” John 15:18
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Just the day before the nightclub massacre, a pop-singer was shot dead and indications are that she was targeted because she was an outspoken Christian. Before that, a professor at UCLA who was active in campus Christian ministries was targeted in a shooting. At the Roseburg mass-shooting, the killer segregated Christians and killed them, sparing the others.
So far, none of these tolerant Leftists have had much to say about any of this. Oh, wait—I do recall seeing Instagram photos of people in gay-bars like Pulse cheering news stories of ISIS beheading Christian priests; and I remember how giddy with glee they were when Kim Davis was jailed and the Oregon Ranchers were shot on Obama’s orders….
But we deserve it, I guess, because we hate and they don’t LOL
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Lmao, everybody is outraged about both preventible incidents, I hate them both! If anything the artist death makes the queer deaths worst!
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We should be grateful to those who tell lies about us because they are helping us receive a greater reward when we reach heaven.
Blessed are you when people hate you and when they exclude you and revile you and spurn your name as evil, on account of the Son of Man! Rejoice in that day, and leap for joy, for behold, your reward is great in heaven; for so their fathers did to the prophets.
(Luke 6:22-23 ESV)
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Great post! I am total agreement with what you wrote.
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I sympathize IB. My brother has been determined for years to convert me away from God and from my savior and so long as I continue to believe he continues to accuse me of hate. It’s bizarre and surreal and generally hard to take. When I go over the edge a bit with my emotions is when he attacks or tries to seduce my children to his false teaching. Always remember the admonishment to count it all joy to be attacks for the sake of your Lord and savior. I’m unworthy to carry that honor. I don’t always succeed as I should. But I’m aware of the great and humbling honor that it really is.
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I blame the media for a lot of this anti-Christian bigotry. Somewhere I saw a survey that showed many Americans feel less safe about leaving their children around a priest or minister than leaving them with a homosexual teacher or scoutmaster.
And of course all the psych dope Americans take doesn’t help either.
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Hell. Yes. Well said. The time to sit and meekly take it is over. There’s nothing wrong with passionately defending our faith.
Thank you for writing this!
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“What will the racist Christians do now? Will they hate on gays or Muslims?”
Well, the Christians will first explain to the accusers that:
A. “gay” is not a “race”. (It’s a sexual behavior choice.)
and
B. Muslim is not a “race”. (It’s a religious behavior choice.)
Then the Christians might ask the accusers, “Who are the “racist christians” anyway?”
The white ones? ; – )
Is it OK for accusers to “hate on” the white ones? ; -) (Sounds like it is!)
“White” is a “race” after all! (In addition to being a behavior!)
“I probably don’t need to tell you that I am now rather friendless….”
Memi, it sounds like your husband is quite a friend!
Significantly, you are a friend to your mother.
No doubt your are a friend to your clients.
And you have lots of internet friends including me!
If we don’t meet in this world, we will in the next! ; – )
I’m looking forward to it!
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Thanks, A-dad. There are a few people I may never get to meet in this world, but I have a feeling we will all meet each other in the next. 🙂
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What is funny is that the homosexual night club was celebrating a Latin night. Therefore, when that Muslim terrorist shot up the night club, that Muslim, supposedly one of the minorities given special protection by Democrats, shot up two other minorities given special protection by Democrats. Therefore, I wonder how this could be a Christian problem? Liberal Christians? Well, perhaps. But what group of Conservative Christians wants to import terrorists?
Seriously, I think we should point to this as example of the stupidity of identity politics. As a nation we got ourselves into this mess by selfishly demanding things from each other we have no right to demand.
If homosexuals want respect, nobody is stopping them from earning it. Can the government give them respect, or just punish people for showing them what they think of their “pride”.
When can our government give Latinos? Do Latino want to be Americans or turn America into the place they left? If Latino want to be Americans, they don’t even have to go anywhere. They are already in either North America or South America.
Blacks? What is it they don’t already have? The Civil Rights Movement ended decades ago. When are blacks going to realize that the Democratic Party is still doing what it has always done, trying to keeping them enslaved?
Women? If women want to be like men… What is the point of being a feminist? If a woman wants to be like a man, what is the point? Shouldn’t feminism be about promoting the glories of both sexes? What is a man without woman? What is a woman without a man?
Diversity demonstrates the prolific power of our Creator. He can do anything. What makes a terrorist so awful is that he hates what God as made. He would destroy everything until there was nothing left but himself. Then he would destroy himself. Such show us the nature of Hell, where own unbridled pride would lead us.
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“Christians didn’t do that…”
Oh yes, Christians do. Dear walked into a health clinic only months ago and shot up the place, killing innocent people with an assault rifle which you Evangelicals just love to have.
From the NYT’s
The Times reporter also interviewed a close relative of Dear’s Colorado girlfriend Stephanie Bragg, who said the couple were “very religious, read the Bible often and are always talking about scripture.”
Another report from the Charleston Post and Courier claimed that Dear was obsessed with an interpretation of the Christian apocalypse, and used dark, bizarre theology to justify disturbing acts of domestic violence against his ex wife.
So, yes, Dear was indeed a Christian Terrorist
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As horrible as that case was John, the guy was declared incompetent, too mentally disturbed to stand trial. Like I said before, this kind of violence from Christians is an aberration involving other factors. In Islam, violence is an ideology, it is a practice. There are two different belief systems operating here, one Christ commands us to love out neighbors, the other is instructed to kill infidels and earn their way into heaven. Those who fail to see the cause and effect going on here, to admit that all things are not equal, are being foolish indeed.
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Oh, you know I’m not fan of Islam, but don’t try and paint Christianity as some sort of rainbow club. The only reason you guys aren’t killing people willy-nilly these days is because, simply, you’re not allowed to. Secular society said, “Sorry, no more.” You used to be allowed to, and the blood flowethed.
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And here’s an interesting article (and video) showing a Christian pastor celebrating the killing:
https://justmerveilleux.wordpress.com/2016/06/13/christian-pastor-celebrates-nightclub-massacre-theres-50-less-pedophiles-in-this-world/
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Here’s something interesting for you to chew on Zande. I spend my days roaming about the internet and confronting the extremists on the fringe of Christianty, trying to engage them and I get the usual hot headed words, assorted verbal abuse, but sometimes we actually make a connection. I don’t do that with Muslims because it isn’t safe, because flat out there is no room for debate and they would hunt me down. They literally kill people, especially uppity women. I can go forth and try to educate people like that pastor, but I can’t do the same thing with Islamic radicals.
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Probably true. Their mindset is medieval. This, to a large extent, is because they live in theocracies. They do not know the freedoms (and peace) of secular societies, of pluralism, or the Rule of Law.
Of tolerance.
I wish you luck, though, in reaching out to this pastor. I mean that.
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And the many many pro life people who fire bomb clinics, and others who bomb toilets, Christians can be terrorists!
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I believe it all boils down to what Jesus defines as a Christian. Everything else is purely evil.
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Zande (who tried this song and dance before) sez of Mr. Dear and the Mrs, that they were:
“very religious, read the Bible often and are always talking about scripture,” trying to make a connection that Dear was a fine believer. Uh, zande, pay attention to your own myopia. Why?
Because YOU sir, read the bible often, and are ALWAYS talking about scripture…………..’ So what. Does this make you a Christian Terrorist, or even an Atheist Terrorist?’
You would so love to advance your narrative, and suggest that the bastards of is-lam are kin to believers who would not hurt a child, let alone murder in the name of God. The murdering monster may have committed this devildom in the name of his ‘god,’ but maybe you do not know the difference between weeds and flowers. Your hypocrisy knows no bounds and has no end.
‘The righteous tend to life………………’ Care to try ‘Sports for 200?’
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The murdering monster may have committed this devildom in the name of his ‘god,’
Errrum… His god is your god, Yhwh, the god of Abraham, Jacob and Isaac. You all worship the same Middle Eastern deity.
Awkward, huh?
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Uh, zande-
How many people did Peter, James, and John kill, they being the pillars of the faith? How many people were they commanded to kill? How many people did Paul command to kill? Oh but wait, he did that……….as a non believer………..
Awkward eh? Weeds and flowers; law and grace, go study the difference. And btw, God is not one of many gods……..but surely you could never conceive the difference…….
Excuse me while I go do some weeding.
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Same Middle Eastern god, Yhwh.
And the Qur’an cannot be questioned, for it is the truth. The book says so:
“This Book is not to be doubted (Qur’an 2:1)
See, it says so right at the beginning.
Must be true, right?
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“And the Qur’an cannot be questioned, for it is the truth.”
Big difference there again, Zande. There are entire universities set up that do nothing but wrestle over the bible, debate over theology. There are multiple denominations of Christianity. Christ Himself came to set the captives free. There is freedom in Christ. There is no freedom in Islam, there is no right to question anything, including the Qur’an. There is no grace, there is no love, there is no opportunity for forgiveness. These are huge differences and they shape human behavior.
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There are 72 distinct chapters of Islam, but the book says its true, so it must be true, right? I mean, it says so!
And who believe in what has been revealed to you, [O Muhammad], and what was revealed before you, and of the Hereafter they are certain [in faith]. ” (Qur’an 2:4)
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Let’s talk about the lasting fruit of two books in 2016. You decide which tree bears fruit, and which bears poison.
The people that YOU speak to on these blogs. Which of us incites murder, mayhem, and mischief? Will you put insanitybytes22 in the camp as being equal to the killers of is-lam who read a different book? Go ahead I dare you to prove your shame. You may as well complain about the daylight.
God has no competitors, but He certainly has many counterfeits pretending to be Him. Heck, even YOU have set yourself higher than Him.
‘This book is not to be doubted……….’ Geez, this even sounds like something you would write also. Uninspired, Dead. Lifeless. Words having no spirit. Words resembling a cartoon script. Some bad fruit there fella.
If you can’t see the difference between the word of God, and all other imposters………….but of course you can; this is why you make it your life’s mission to silence what is true and good.
It must pain you no end to read that ‘in the beginning God created the heaven and the earth,’ is true.
Back on point. Racist christian eh……
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“And who believe in what has been revealed to you, [O Muhammad], and what was revealed before you, and of the Hereafter they are certain [in faith]. ” (Qur’an 2:4)
Can’t fault the logic, the Qur’an is clearly true. It says it is. We shouldn’t doubt a book that says it’s true, should we, John?
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Perhaps you would like to check out the tafsīr-corpus, or the exegesis of the Quran, written throughout the ages which are filled with discussions, disagreements and efforts to explain every single word of the Quran, and which could fill up a castle by its amount. But perhaps quoting a verse or two from an English translation makes you the expert and all those Islamic specialists wrong?
Uhm, there are also multiple denominations of Islam. There are four different schools of law in Sunnism alone, who have agreed to disagree. I don’t get the sense that you have really looked into Islam a great deal.
“There is no opportunity for forgiveness”? Perhaps you are not familiar with the verse that opens EVERY SINGLE chapter of the Quran (except one): in the name of God, the most Compassionate, the most Benificent. Also, are you aware of the 99 Beautiful Names of God in islam, of which one is the Forgiver?
Also this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNRFo1JXIJw
This upsets me to be honest. It would be the same as if I went to those redpill blogs and declared that to be true christianity and the ONLY christianity.
“The true servants of the All-Merciful are those who walk the earth in humility, and when the vicious address them their only word is: ‘Peace!’ (Quran 25:63)
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Way to make it all about you? You were not murdered, and if Christians and Christian identifying people didn’t want to be seen as against gay bi lesbian trans queer non conforming humans happiness then they wouldn’t of spoken so often against gay marriage and hadn’t kicked their own children out of their house?
Its an easy problem to fix!
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I’ve been remaining silent on Orlando for a while but feel a need to say something–I weep for not only the families of the gay victims but also for the shooter’s family as well. We must remember that the shooter also lost his life as well erasing possibility for repentance. Our mission as Christians is to love without discrimination. It does not matter if they were the murdered or the murderer.
We can take an example from Charleston as well. A man comes in and “prays” with the black church and then, “BAM! BAM! BAM!” several dead. Do you know what the church did? They responded in LOVE to the shooter. God has given us an opportunity in this tragedy for us, as Christians, to show we are capable of loving without discrimination and so we PRAY for the families of the victims AND the family of the shooter as well.
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I don’t think Islam is inherently bad. I’ve met way too many good muslims to possibly believe that, and I think nearly everyone my age living in an urban area has as well. But, their religion is not grounded in a perfect figure like Jesus Christ. It’s much harder to twist Jesus’s teachings to support murder than it is to do the same with Muhammad’s teachings. So certain sects of Islam definitely breed bad people. But I think there is a lot more nuance to this, and it’s wrong to treat Islam as a monolithic block of bad people.
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Here’s what I always want to ask people who attempt to draw some sort of moral equivalence between Christianity and Islam:
Suppose you were given a choice of only two countries you could live in. One is populated by Christians who thoroughly understand the tenets of Christianity, take their faith seriously, and attempt to live by it at all times. The other is populated by Muslims who throughly understand the tenets of Islam, take their faith seriously, and attempt to live by it at all times. You have to choose one or the other. Which would it be?
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I wish you could hear me clapping my hands right now. The one thing I remind myself of throughout all of this blame we’re getting for something done by someone of another religion is this- This is how we know that our God is the One, true God. No god of any other religion gets people riled up like ours because people know deep down that the others are false gods. The Bible tells us that people would hate us because of Jesus, and boy was it right…again.
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Thank you for expressing truth and facts so well.
You have spoken for many.
God Bless you.
George
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