The Lord works in mysterious ways, yes? God is good, indeed. I hope we can at least agree on that one thing.
Iran Frees Pastor Saeed Abedini after Three Years in Prison
I pray that it is true, that this information is accurate, and that Pastor Saeed Abedini is brought home safely and reunited with his family. I pray that the family is bathed in His grace, mercy, forgiveness and healing, during what could be challenging days ahead, simply because prison changes people, trauma creates wounding. What was once normal may no longer feel so normal to them. This family will need our continued prayers, and our support, not our condemnation.
For those who may wonder what in this world this has to do with Dalrock, well, he did a series of rather harsh and judgmental posts about Naghmeh Saeed.
Naghmeh warns Christians not to be seduced by the desire for attention.
The erasure of Pastor Saeed occurred sooner than I thought.
Dalrock, as kindly and gently as possible, but have you ever met my friends, Eliphaz, Bildad and Zophar? For months while Naghmeh worked tirelessly to get her husband released, you cast negative aspirations on her character and lead your readers into believing she was going to have an affair, about to steal the pastor’s limelight, attention seeking, about to betray him, etc etc. Gossip Dalrock, pure speculation and gossip.
She’s a sister in Christ, Dalrock, as I am, and we all need your encouragement, your support, your love, not your fear, not your condemnation, and not your gossip. Weaker vessels, right? Weaker vessels already facing more than one human being can handle, should not be pointlessly kicked about for your own gratification.
Your love in Christ has the power to change everything. Your condemnation, not so much.
See, there's this thing called biology... 
Reblogged this on Talmidimblogging.
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Thank you for the reblog. 😉
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You’re very welcome!
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Dalrock is once again showing that Churchian Game is a cult; not a faith or a philosophy. He’s basically depicted this situation as the manly Alpha leader strongly suffering for his faith (he was really under something like house arrest) while the wife is taking advantage of the situation to indulge her hypergamous instincts. Whether the allegations of abuse she made are true or not—Dalrock is jumping to the conclusion that they are. We don’t know: the American media is well-known for distorting things to discredit Christians, and the Iranian government is well-known for spreading disinformation and engaging in psychological warfare.
And as usual, the Gamers play right into the Femihag’s hands; by hoping that a Christian marriage will fail under stress; both to shame Christianity and to keep the gender wars going.
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“And as usual, the Gamers play right into the Femihag’s hands; by hoping that a Christian marriage will fail under stress; both to shame Christianity and to keep the gender wars going.”
You are quite right, Eric. It is rather odd how much they try to attack other people’s marriages…..while allegedly insisting on the sanctity of marriage. I know what is “usual” to them. What is becoming usual to me is demanding they knock it off, wake up, and come to their senses. Probably a fruitless task, but one I’m not likely to give up any time soon. 😉
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The subject of Naghmeh, over at Dalrock’s, was one of the more interesting conversations I’ve had online.
I don’t think I’ve ever encountered that level of vitriol for stated (numerous times) they might be right, but they might be wrong because:
1) Here are the actual facts we KNOW and 2) Here is what the media is stating
Notice how the two aren’t alligned? I suggested that the media might have gotten hold of some sort of private message and published an out of context version of the facts. For example, the media said she was “taking a break, citing abuse”. But nothing in her Facebook or Twitter would substantiate that claim and I would think that would be the first place she’d put it if that were her intention. Little things like that. Wow did I get pummeled.
The accusation was that private claims were as bad as public ones and it’s still a betrayal. I said, yes, it’s a betrayal but if it was a message in private (which now seems to be the case…we don’t know the content of the message but it was to a private prayer group and likely something along the lines of ‘pray for our family’ and some details she should NOT have shared), there is a vast difference in INTENT.
It was something.
At the end of the day, he might be right. But he also might be very wrong. There was definitely no reason to villify her this way, short of facts (isn’t that, too, going by “feels”? And aren’t all those posts people are making about their spouses a form of private betrayal too? At any rate, one more reason most of the internet is a good place to avoid, if you want uplifting material).
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The rational after I pointed out the she never stated anything about this publicly was interesting too. It must’ve been her intention for the message to get out surreptitiously, went the assertion…so as to deny culpability. Well, yes, that’s one possibility but it would require a very deceptive dark triad personality and over the last three years there is certainly enough information out there about her to determine whether that is the case. Everything I’ve seen points that she is a good person, so why jump to the conclusion she’s a borderline maniacal psychopath (excuse me, just “exercising hypergamy”) now, due to an out of context article?
Good grief.
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It hasn’t seemed to have stopped either. Now there are the interpretations of “what Nagmeh REALLY meant when she said….”
“When she said she is praying for her husband, what she REALLY means is…praying he never finds out she’s a cheat…”
and so forth.
I cannot for the life of me understand the vitriol against this woman based on one media piece (and subsequent media pieces generated off of the one piece, versions of “why Nagmeh might have done this/that/thought this/that”, nothing from Naghmeh herself nor the lawyer who represents her family). The media is fueling this, and I know why they are. The media (even Christan media, it would seem) no longer exists to inform, it exists to pass rumors that entertain.
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Soon it will be, “Is that a baby bump? Nag Me is pregnant! With someone else’s child!”
This is all rather extraordinary, tabloid level stuff.
Good grief.
Okay, my 20 minutes a day internet time is over.
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As someone I rather admire quipped, “gossip, whining, and passive aggressive sexting as masculinity, that’s a new one.” It’s probably not new at all, but this is the behavior of old women at the tabloid stand in the grocery store, not Godly men. Not even un-Godly men. Heck, I’m not even sure gossipy old women would engage in such foolish vitriol.
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Also Liz, you made a good point about Naghemeh’s leaked prayers. That is a huge betrayal on someone’s end, a particularly nasty form of spiritual abuse. Whatever she may have shared with her prayer group was private and not intended for public consumption. Somebody really betrayed her trust there and that is not okay.
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BTW, on the other side of the coin: Obama, Kerry, and Carter—men who’ve instigated the murder and persecution of Christians worldwide—are doing photo-ops claiming credit for this release. The reality is that Russia engineered the release, with diplomatic help from China, Syria, and Iraq.
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Obama instigated the murder of Christians? Good grief Eric you really are a complete arse hat.
Maybe you would like to address the issue of those who have died as a result of the stance the Catholic Church has taken regarding condoms and HIV/AIDS?
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He might be refering to support for regimes in the Middle East that target Christians.
The level of violence against the Coptic Christians in Egypt following the coup in 2013, for example, hasn’t been seen since the 14th century.
On another note, if the promotion and distribution of condoms were the solution to the African HIV problem in any way, South Africa wouldn’t have an HIV problem. Instead, the rates of infection are among the worst in the world.
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Might it?
Well,Eric is not known for his humanitarian attitude if his blog comments are anything to go by so I shall rather wait to listen to his reply, thanks all the same.
People such as Eric are well-known for their whinging whining hard done by Christian persecution complex.
One almost wants to barf when one experiences his crocodile tears.
I do not recall anywhere that I said condoms were the solution to the HIV/AIDS crisis?
However, the promotion and distribution of condoms in South Africa and Botswana, for example, has helped considerably, even in the face of huge, negative cultural attitudes.
This is not helped in any way by the Catholic Church being an active promoter against the use of condoms in all spheres.
And yes, I am aware of the stats – I live here.
I think perhaps you ought to educate yourself a little more before you enter such a conversation with such tacitly inflammatory and ignorant statements don’t you, Liz?
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Oh, and out of curiosity, are you a believer of some sort, Liz?
Just so’s one can get a handle on your perspective.
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I did not know Eric had a blog (I’ve never seen a link to one on his alias).
I am a Christian, yes.
“I think perhaps you ought to educate yourself a little more before you enter such a conversation with such tacitly inflammatory and ignorant statements don’t you, Liz?”
Which portion was inflammatory and ignorant?
The fact that South Africa has among the highest HIV rates in all of Africa and has been on a largest campaign on the continent to promote the use of condoms for about a decade or over now? That’s just a fact.
Yes, the brunt of the problem is cultural attitudes. NOT the Catholic church and its stand on condom use.
For that matter, if your assertion were true Catholic countries would all have among the highest rates of HIV infection, but they don’t. Strange eh? The Philippines isn’t doing great, they’ve had a steady increase in inflection rates but that increase is almost entirely among the male homosexual community. Call me an “ignorant, inflammatory” scoffer, but I do find it hard to believe the male homosexual community in the Philippines refuse to use condoms because the Catholic church disapproves and/or didn’t provide them with free condoms (they are certainly abundant, lots of sex tourists there).
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Where did I allude he had a blog? I was referring for his penchant for continually whining about how hard done he comes across as and how poor Christians always get the short stick.
May I ask why?
Pretty much all of it, dear. Read it again, perhaps?
Your point is … what?
Hmm, you seem unable to process what I write or are being intentionally obstreperous .
Where did I say the brunt of the problem was the Catholic Church? Nowhere , dear. I said their intentional drive to prevent condom use was only exacerbating the problem. .
Your first sentence is utter nonsense as I never once said or implied the Catholic Church were responsible and I refer you to my previous comment about you seemingly being unable to process what I write.
The Church is not the problem but they do exacerbate it. Religious attitudes towards the AID pandemic and certainly official Catholic policy are simply disgusting – and I am curtailing emotive language here.
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FWIW, the whole “Africans are ignorant so they won’t wear condoms!” always struck me as quite insulting and smacks of white man’s burden. They don’t wear them because they don’t like them, and all the “schooling” in the world isn’t going to make them use the things.
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Who said Africans are ignorant? Not I.
Are you projecting once again, Liz.
A great many people do not like them, irrespective of skin colour, but people change all the time.
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“Who said Africans are ignorant? Not I.”
You must not give them a whole lot of credit if you think their survival rests on the Catholic church’s stance on condoms.
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You really are struggling to remove the corn from your bottom, dear it seems.
Not once have I even alluded that their survival rests upon the Catholic Church, anymore than the survival of Irish Catholics rests upon the Catholic Church,
However, the Christian religion and in this case the Catholic Church exert enormous influence on their adherents, and the disgusting doctrine that runs through all Christian cults does not generally encourage the use birth control.
I believe you ought to stop projecting and try not to put words in my mouth, as I really have an aversion to the religious putting anything in my mouth, thank you.
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I thought you were implying he had a blog when you said this:
Well,Eric is not known for his humanitarian attitude if his blog comments are anything to go by..”
”May I ask why?”
You can, but the thorough answer would take quite a bit of time, is quite personal, and most likely wouldn’t really interest you (I say this based on your obvious condescension).
”Not once have I even alluded that their survival rests upon the Catholic Church”
Your statement:
“Maybe you would like to address the issue of those who have died as a result of the stance the Catholic Church has taken regarding condoms and HIV/AIDS?”
Does actually imply lives (aka survival…the opposite of “die”) is dependent on the stance of the Catholic Church.
I guess at this point I could turn my arrogance dial all the way to where yours is pegged and interject some condescending “dears”/ “corn from you bottom” /“want to barf” and other such rapier-wit level commentary.
But, I’ll just let this one lie.
My time isn’t as valuable as it once was, but it is too valuable to continue conversation further with you.
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A lot of people try to blame the Catholic church for it’s stand on condoms, when in fact Africa is flooded with condoms. But also, many people tend to forget that it is also the Catholic church that funds more hospitals for HIV/AIDS all across the continent, than anyone else. So if we were to remove the Catholic church from Africa, there would be many needs not being met. To try to imply the church has created the damage they are attempting to deal with is short sighted and biased.
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No, only his comments on this blog.
Is your reason that much different from the majority of those one encounters in Blogland?
If not, an explanation shouldn’t take more than a paragraph, surely?
I suppose one can stretch meaning as far as one wants …
I tend to adjust my comment style toward those I engage based upon reading some of their previous comments to others.
This seemed about the right level of rapier-wit.
Then I am honoured you took the time to pen even a few words to me … dear.
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By their fruits you shall know them.. Dalrock allows vile comments denigrating women on his blog.. Greyghost ( supposedly a Christian man) for instance, has advocated that men should lead women on use them and then dump them so that they will then live a life alone with their cats. Not a peep of condemnation from Dalrock. He is a gutless man who is more concerned with blog hits and adulation than anything else. When his blog was in its infancy he denied that his blog had a Christian bent.. Until he garnered a few Christian followers. Now he has become a megalomaniac. An oracle.. A legend in his own mind..
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It’s a train wreck. What really bothers me is that many of his followers are allegedly Christians and they support things that are obviously plain wrong. This is discernment 101, not rocket engineering and there is an epic failure on the part of many to understand the harm they are doing, not just to themselves but to Dalrock too.
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Just randing further after reading a bit of the responses at Dalrock. This is really strange, unbelieveably vitriolic stuff based on so very very little. One major theme for the “fun” seems to be the (out of context, indirect, hearsay) claim that she said he was “abusing her from the prison in Iran”.
Which indeed, that makes no sense at all.
Logic would indicate her husband cannot abuse her from Iran (or watch porn, or whatever).
So either
1) This unsubstantiated account without context is telling the whole story and she has claimed her husband continued to abuse her from his prison cell in Iran, somehow, which would be patently absurd (especially for someone so ostensibly maniacally clever, apparently, diabolically planning the surreptitious release of this information in that venue)
OR
2) She never made this claim in the first place.
I think the latter is much more likely.
One thing I found out recently that I did not know…quotes can be fabricated.
In this case there is no direct quote anyway, but what seems to be a conglomeration of out of context statements relayed to the media in a way that was definitely a betrayal of her confidence (unless, again, she intended that betrayal to happen but I find that unlikely in the extreme).
I found this out because my husband was recently interviewed (I can’t say why or what about…the reader can believe me or not, but it would be an odd thing to fabricate for no good reason. I suppose there are odd ducks like that on the net though). He outright told the journalist that he would not be a good interview so the journalist asked questions, he responded succinctly leaving the journalist little to go on. At the end of the interview, the journalist asked him if he wanted to make a statement he could quote, and my husband said, “No”.
So, the journalist told him he would ask him if he could use a quote in the context of the statements my husband had made (if you’re following this so far…it’s tough to tell the whole story when one has to be evasive but it is what it is). Essentially, the journalist wanted a good quote but he would e mail him with it and not publish without his consent. Well, the article was published and my husband was (ostensibly) quoted, but it was not a statement he ever made and the journalist certainly did NOT approve of said quote…the journalist never contacted him. Lots of e mails subsequent to that along the lines of: “Okay, there is NO WAY Mike actually said that…”
Indeed, that’s for sure. He never did. But someone who didn’t know him could draw all sorts of conclusions about his character from the quote. Is he going to dispute it? No. There’s no point…it didn’t say anything actually bad, and I’m sure that the journalist thought his fabricated quote made my husband sound insightful, but it actually made him sound like a tool.
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Sorry about your journalistic troubles, Liz. The media can be something else and much of what they say should be taken with a grain of salt because so often they lack any integrity. Dirty laundry sells.
As to Naghmeh we have no idea what she even said or in what context, but they have both been under tremendous pressure. “Abusing her from prison,” could simply have been the desperation and frustration he felt because she couldn’t seem to get him out. He very well could have been attacking her for not trying hard enough. That lack of support could have driven her to focus on everything that has ever been wrong within their marriage. There need not be any malevolent intent anywhere, just the rather ordinary behavior of humans under a great deal of stress.
If I were trapped in a foreign prison, I may well be cursing my husband for not getting me out. Unfair perhaps to demand a superhero, but that is the nature of people.
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Per journalists, no biggie.
Fortunately our family isn’t in the center of continuous public scrutiny.
I can only imagine how stressful that would be.
I agree we dont’ know anything here. I’m cautious and only go on what I think the most plausible scenario (and I happened to be right about the first guess, the information was leaked from a private exchange). I hadn’t heard much about Naghmeh before this and kind of read up on her and feel a bit protective. I just don’t understand the level of vitriol based on so little evidence and a history of continuous support for her husband. At any rate, way WAY past my alloted internet time now.
Thanks for listening. 🙂
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Only you, IB, are implying the Church has created the damage.
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Arkenaten, we wouldn’t be having this conversation about the Catholic Church in the first place it you hadn’t claimed their condom policy is responsible for deaths.
Your words: “Maybe you would like to address the issue of those who have died as a result of the stance the Catholic Church has taken regarding condoms and HIV/AIDS?”
My response the above: “This does actually imply lives (aka survival…the opposite of “die”) are dependent on the stance of the Catholic Church.”
Your non-answer: ”I suppose one can stretch meaning as far as one wants …”
You are free to explain what else that could possibly mean or how else that could be interpreted.
Since you seem unwilling to own up to what you stated and instead stoop under the cover of passive aggressive swipes, maybe you could invite some of your friends and they could explain some other way to interpret the above.
Perhaps rather than juvenile passive aggressive nonsensical swipes, they could throw out some fresh pejoratives? Those would be as welcome as vowels in the Adriatic port cities of Sjlbvdnzv and Grzny.
Leaving the internet bar now, locking it, and throwing my keys into the bushes but I do look forward to reading that explanation in the morning.
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The condom policy of the catholic church can definitely be attributed to HIV/AIDS deaths.
Could suggest any particular pejorative/s you prefer?
Leaving already? We were having so much fun, Liz. Don’t be a meany.
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IB, I’ve only been to Dalrock’s site once, but with all of the things he says against others (particularly against women), I’m just wondering why you talk as if he is a brother in Christ. Does he claim to be a Christian? Just wondering.
Becky
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He does claim to be a Christian. Even more difficult for me to accept, many Christians point to him as someone who exemplifies faith. Of course, non believers also point to him as an example of “see, this is why I’m not a Christian.”
What I find particularly worrisome about the ‘sphere and the red pills, is that the vast majority of them are Christians. That’s scripture they often use to try to back up their claims, too.
Of course, wheat and tares all look pretty much the same, and can be especially hard to discern on the internet, but yes, Dalrock leads a public relations campaign for Christ, at least on his own little planet, and that scares the heck out of me.
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IB, your “like” feature button is too sensitive.
Seems anytime I try to quote someone I hit that ‘like’ button inadvertently.
If you say that believe the Catholic church is responsible for deaths, Ark,
that is the equivalent of saying they are responsible for deaths. It is odd in the extreme that you say this and then deny it when questioned, and then repeat it again. At this point I’ll assume it’s a sign of lunacy.
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There is hostility and conflict occurring on this thread. I feel this pain you ladies are experiencing. Therefore I implore this group to metaphorically reach out to each other. Hold out your hands and imagine the one you are most frustrated with is now holding your hand; you holding hers. You both smile broadly, look each other in the eye, then rhythmically murmur to each other, “I know exactly how you feel”.
Then wait 45 minutes. Then report back to this thread.
Good Luck……..
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Well, I happen to feel no hostility, no conflict, just sadness because using His name to try to encourage hatred and unforgivness is a serious offense.
What I wouldn’t give to tell Dalrock that his feelings do not define the world around him and that the God He claims to know has a depth of love for us that is just astounding. How long one can go clinging to pride and offense and using His name to try and justify it, before one reaches the point of no return, I just don’t know.
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Dalrock is now rather gleefully rubbing his hands together, quite thrilled to discover that his gossip may come to fruition. He and the usual suspects are now rather ghoulishly celebrating what could be the demise of this marriage, cloaked in calls for prayer of course.
Your behavior is rather disgusting red pills, and not only do I refuse to apologize, I will double down on this very post.
I repeat what I said here,
“Your love in Christ has the power to change everything. Your condemnation, not so much.”
Your choice. You can either fuel hated or you can walk with Jesus Christ. You cannot do both.
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Well, I’ll have to concede with the new information that Naghmeh isn’t the person of character I believed her to be.
I do think she this betrayal (now that I am convinced there is betrayal) is very troubling.
I’ll leave it at that.
I agree about the prayer and will pray for that family.
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Okay Liz, but here’s the deal. It is irrelevant to me what the Pastor or his wife have done or have not done, the issue is my own heart, my own relationship with Christ. So were I to post dozens of posts gossiping about these two, reveling in the dirty laundry, sitting in judgment, delighting in now having found out “what Naghmeh is really like,” my heart would be dark and my soul would be full of rot.
Dalrock, as a Christian man, and the others who follow him, are required to LEAD us morally in Christ’s footsteps, not to gloat over gossip. Not only is what they are doing not Christian, it’s not even masculine. Epic fail on the leadership there, which, since I am not married to any of these men, compels me to revoke their authority card. He who is under authority, has authority. He who is obviously not, does not.
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insanitybytes22
You still haven’t acknowledged that what Naghmeh did was utterly immoral.
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It’s not my job to indulge in speculation, gossip, condemnation, and than pass judgment on people.
Besides, I’ve born direct witness to more immorality coming out of Dalrock’s mouth in Christ’s name, than I even care to think about. For every finger you point at others, you’ve got 3 more pointing back at yourselves.
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Yes, gossiping, smug, old men, purporting to be Christians, revelling in the dirty laundry and sitting in judgement from their lofty glass houses.
You are right IB,when you say the issue is about your (our) own heart. Your (our) own relationship with Christ.
The short-sighted hypocritical mob throwing stones over at Dalrock’s should examine their own consciences. Their true motives..
It’s a feeding frenzy over there. (post after post.. comment after comment.. detailing this woman’s betrayal and sin) It is neither humbling nor edifying, just horrifying.
Jesus said, “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.”
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insanitybytes22
If you can’t judge people’s actions, how do you bifurcate right from wrong? I’ve seen a lot of “Christian” women use “love” and “forgiveness” to excuse the bad behaviour of their sisters, are you one of them?
Jesus said, “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.”
He also followed up with: “Go and sin no more.” Today’s “Christian” women can’t even acknowledge the sinful behaviour of their sisters.
I suspect you’ll respond to this message with fiery accusations that Dalrock’s crew cross the line from judging sin to judging individuals, but try and restrain your emotions and answer the question.
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When you obsess over the sins of others, you miss seeing your own.
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Sometimes observing the sins of others helps you notice your own.
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In the red pill’s case, they compare the sins of others with their own and then declare themselves righteous.
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I haven’t noticed that at all. Even at return of kings I’ve noticed many of the writers and commenters agree that their methods aren’t ideal and that in a healthy functioning society, their tactics wouldn’t be necessary (they would be harmful infact). But as we know, while men have many failings, solipsism isn’t one of them (thankfully).
Whenever I read blogs and comments by women, I get the distinct impression that they have a hard time telling apart right from wrong. “Christian” women invoke the language of “love” and “forgiveness” to excuse their bad behaviour frequently. If a man errs, he is slammed and shamed. If a women errs, it’s “love” and “forgiveness” all the way. To women, Christ seems to be less of a Lord and more of an emotional butler whose job is to soothe their precious feelings rather than act as a beacon of morality and conduct.
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But as we know, while men have many failings, solipsism isn’t one of them (thankfully).
Thank you for making my point for me. Male solipsism is indeed, a real thing in the world.
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It is, but not even close to the scale of women.
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You should really consider a new gravatar. It reveals your age. The Village People went out of style decades ago.
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Was that supposed to be a clever, smart comeback? Because I just heard the sound of cringe instead.
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Point and sputter is all you have left when you’re proven wrong.
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I have no reason to point and sputter. The Village People are a bit retro for me, but I can relate to the attraction they might have for an older man who longs for his wasted youth.
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I made the comments here. I feel like a celebrity. Cool
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Actually, you are common, redundant, and boring. If anyone quotes your words, it is only because they are such an easy example of teh stoopid.
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Will you ever answer the question? You can’t, can you?
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insanitybites, throwing a Godly tantrum?
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Whatever for? I cannot save any of you from the nature of your own selves. I do know the One who can however, and I think if you knew Him too, you wouldn’t behave this way. Naghmeh isn’t hurt by your words, you guys are. What you speak over others, you actually speak over yourselves. That’s sad to watch, but it’s hardly worthy of a tantrum.
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Wow…this group of tough guys really impresses me. Like a pack of dogs. Anybody ever tell you boneheads that real men don’t try to bully women?
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Sluts, one and all. Neghmeh, her supporters, all the women here. Not one of you a Christian woman, not one.
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So sayeth, good, humble and holy Christian Jim…
How fortuitous that he should drop by your blog, IB.
He’s a good example of the exemplary Christians who hang out at Dalrock’s blog. 😀
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Oh, btw Jimbo, I don’t wish to be a nag, but it’s NAGhmeh not Neghmeh. 😉
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Hey Jim
So, Christian…that’s your last name right? Surely I hope you aren’t using that as a description, because it might be false advertising. Of course, I don’t know your heart, so I apologize for questioning your faith. But, that is my point. You don’t get to do that either. Broad sweeping statements about the status of people’s Christianity is, well, not Christian. Especially since as far as I can tell, the only thing that disqualifies some people is failing to shut up and get with your program.
Here is a news flash for all of you, including you Jim, who have come crashing in hurling bile and insults. Being a jerk and bully doesn’t make you a man. Yeah…crazy huh?
You are in authority, all of us are. God made it that way. Good plan, because it’s His plan. God made us to be leaders and we ought to be. So far so good right? I mean, the Bible teaches that pretty clearly, that we are to lead our wives, and our families. Just a couple of issues here, and I will shut up.
Those parts of the Bible that teach wives to submit? Yep, they do. But I fear you have missed a link, all of you. That would be the part where WE submit. To Jesus. We submit to Him, we follow him, and we act like Him. While Jesus gladly told some people exactly how things were(vipers and snakes and all that), he was not a jerk and bully. Sorry, imposing your will through that doesn’t make you a man. Being Christlike makes you a man. You want to be in authority? Submit to authority yourself.
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IB, in case you haven’t read it, Jesus is not always against judging, He said to “judge righteous judgement”. Its there in the Gospel if you care to read it.
In one breath, you rebuked Dalrock for sitting in judgement over Nagmeh; in the next breath, you sat in judgement over Dalrock, judging him for judging Nagmeh.
Nagmeh and her supporters are doing the work of the devil. Here was a pastor who has been languishing in jail for years. He is just home only to meet the lies and betrayal of his wife. His reputation is in ruins and his marriage almost destroyed, thanks to the only woman on the planet that should have been on his team.
And here you are. You could not even bring yourself to condemn the utterly disgusting behavior exhibited by this shameless woman. All you could do was to attack those who dared to call her out. Shame. Shame indeed.
Let us even assume for once that Saeed watched or is addicted to porn. Is anything beyond the power of God? Couldn’t she have prayed and fasted for him to break the power of pornography over him, instead of destroying his reputation? After all, she is a fasting woman, who could fast for 21 days? Shame on her and on those who support her behavior, or are too chicken to speak up against what she did.
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Your endless obsession with shaming others makes me wonder if you’ve even read the instruction manual, also known as the bible.
Christ went to the cross despising the shame on our behalf. Constantly wagging a shaming finger isn’t about anyone else, it’s about you.
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Will you ever answer the question? You can’t, can you?
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Since God is the judge, not me and not other people, I will refrain from commenting on this except to say that insanitybytes has written powerful, well thought out words.
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I think the obsession with shame in modern psychology/christianity is fascinating.
Shame is a normal moral social enforcer. We shame sluts. We shame abusers. They should be ashamed of their sin and society recognizes their destruction to the rest of us by shaming them. Shame from a group is simply the open acknowledgment of sin or unacceptable behavior for which a healthy person feels inward shame/guilt which leads to Godly sorrow when they are moved to repent.
This concept has been co-opted by therapists to translate shame as an irrational feeling brought on by outside influences. Christ despised shame because He was perfect doing perfect work. Shame could be assigned by the world but it was false because there was no internal sin. It is not so with most of us.
Satan can use shame to keep us from repenting as Adam and Eve in the Garden. But Christians should not let this use move them to embracing the therapist framework. We should not fear from sometimes publicly acknowledging the sins of others and appropriately shame the unrepentant.
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Shame is a toxic form of manipulation designed to control and enforce human behavior. It does far more harm than good and it tends to force people to wall themselves off behind pride. When you surrender all to Christ, there is no shame because there is no pride, and in Christ there is also no condemnation. His grace is sufficient.
Godly sorrow is an internal conviction that comes from Christ Himself, not from the finger pointing of hypocrites.
90% of that Dalrockian nonsense stems from a toxic pride/shame dichotomy. To humble yourself to Christ is to avail yourself of His mercy, grace, and healing.
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InsanityBytes wrote:
No it’s not.
Shame the internal mechanism and process that the human conscience invokes to cover what has been revealed in the motivations and actions of ones self and others…
…and/or
Shame is the external mechanism and process that the human conscience invokes to uncover what has been revealed in the motivations and actions of ones self and others…
And ALL of it is legit, and hardly grieves the Holy Spirit.
It’s rather pitiable how dishonest you are.
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“It’s rather pitiable how dishonest you are.”
The problem with shame is that you’re always going to try to unload it on someone else. It’s too heavy a burden to carry and you will be compelled to try to offload it.
That is what is pitiable and dishonest. There’s another way of being in the world, where you lay your shame down at the foot of the cross and accept Jesus Christ’s mercy and forgiveness.
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I’m not ALWAYS trying to do ANY such thing.
Shame SHOULD be the catalyst to contrition, repentance, and then actionable forgiveness by our fellow man, supplanted by our Master.
NO ONE gets a pass, and if we don’t start none, there won’t be none, for He chastises those whom He loves, and SOMETIMES that rebuff, rebuke, and redirection comes through His vessels.
Vessels of honor, of course, but vessels, nonetheless.
And while sometimes the message comes with or without postage…the contents are the same.
No one is above the other. We ALL have to take our lumps.
Obfuscating these facts are pitiable and dishonest. I have my own stripes of shame and dishonor to show for it.
I warn men and women to avoid the empty folly of wretch and sin. I’m alive, I believe, mostly for that purpose.
His Word is true. Adding to or taking away from it will have us exposed as liars, and as such, we ALL should treat lightly and CONFORM. Not to the sootiness of our human identify, but into the image of Christ.
What is debatable, it seems, is what that actually looks like.
IB, you, like everyone else ought not kick against the pricks.
The message of the manosphere isn’t FOR you or ABOUT you.
If you are a NAWALT, then be that. Stop telling men, whose convictions differ from yours, what to do or think.
Worry about your own husband and stay in your lane, and let Christ abide in these men.
If women can have THEIR truth, so can MEN.
You are bigoted in that regard.
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Christ would like nothing more than to abide in those men, but He seems to have been replaced by red pill ideology, with tragic results.
As to staying in my own lane, the answer is no. The truth belongs to neither men or women, it belongs to the one who calls Himself, “The Truth.”
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