Reading a fascinating and diverse number of articles today, mostly involving things like equality, misogyny, androgyny, metaphorical homosexuality, and other gender related relationship oddities, a common theme kept emerging. Women really have a hard time empathizing and understanding men, but men are also really lacking in the empathy for women department. Sheesh!
For the most part, hubby and I escaped this issue. I had a narcissistic mother, so I learned to identify with men very early on. It was the world of women that threw me for a loop. My husband was one of the youngest with nine sisters, so learning about the nature of women was probably a survival skill for him. We came together knowing and empathizing with the opposite gender very well. That was not even an issue. Ha! In fact, we knew each other too well.
RolloTomassi who wrote the “Rational Male,” yet another red pill fan, has a post today called “Managing Expectations” where he ends by declaring “Men will always be the risk takers in all aspects of life.” Tomassi is right about a few things, but many other times he just gets caught up in gender politics and cannot even seem to perceive the world through any eyes but his own.
Many of the things he writes about are what I call normal gender relations, the way things are, the ordinary instinctual dance of marriage. I see no great red pill revelations, no Matrix one must escape, no blue pill reality to reject. These things are healthy, natural, innate, nothing anybody in my world had to ever “learn.” Then I remember so few of these red pills even come from my world. Most of them are fairly well off, successful, and living within their own little world, a sometimes very myopic world.
I don’t mean to attack Tomassi too harshly, in truth he is one of the saner red pills and has a smooth writing style and a refreshing amount of clarity. So I’ll be as gentle as possible. The man wrote a post in which he says he will “provide you with some general observations about what I believe are the foundations of a healthy love relationship.” That’s pretty much the last mention of love you’ll see. An entire post on love with no love in it! In fact, the entire article is aptly named “managing expectations,” as in forgedaboutit, you ain’t ever going to be loved.
Probably not! I mean, it is downright difficult to love men who are self-absorbed, and operating on this kind of revenge based, defensive stance model, that tends to perceive women as the enemy, while also bemoaning about the inequality and the huge biological sacrifice men must make, only to eventually conclude with, “men will always be the risk takers in all aspects of life.”
Sounds awesome! What man wouldn’t rush forward to sign up for that??!
Here’s the deal. Women can and do love men and frequently. We can and do empathize with them, even. A whole lot of us are aware of the biological inequality that exists when men are put in the position of trying to appeal to women while facing constant rejection, and all women really have to do is show up and be available. Many of us watch boys go from facing repetitive female rejection, to then trying to figure out how to become providers, how to be leaders, how to be men. During this entire process, men face a lot more judgment and condemnation and accountability than women do. Women can actually see these things and many of us empathize greatly.
It is probably correct to state that men are greater risk takers in that they have developed a greater tolerance for risk and are perhaps more inclined to seek it. Women tend to be more risk averse. But to imply that nature, life, the world, complies to the female desire for less risk is downright silly. Women really face huge challenges in the world, starting in the womb. Yeah, we don’t fare so well in sex selection. Seems like everyone wants boys. Then we go through life as a smaller, weaker, specimen, and more sexually desirable to boot! Yeah, that’s always a great deal of fun.
When we finally meet a man we’re dealing with an unknown and we have to try to guess, try to predict not only the man’s character but his future actions, too. There is huge risk in that. We could be robbed of our youth and then tossed aside in favor of someone perceived as more desirable, or we could get abandoned with a pack of kids to support. Not to go too dark on anyone here, but the other day a woman had gasoline tossed on her and was lit on fire. That’s also the kind of risk that women face. The risk of death and dismemberment. One miscalculation in our judgment of a man and we can wind up on the side of the road in a shallow grave somewhere. These things are not figments of women’s imaginations, they are real.
Best case scenario, you’ll only break our hearts, but leave the rest of us intact.
Should things go well, women continue to take risks. We risk you leaving us, dying in war, getting sick. We risk abandonment, we risk childbirth, we risk rejection, isolation, pain, suffering, abuse, loneliness, male disinterest, the list goes on and on. Women actually get piled on in life from all sides, from parents, from the culture at large, from feminism, from churchians, from husbands, children, employers. Being female is awesome, it is wonderful, but I sure wouldn’t call it free of risk. We are flexible and resilient for a reason. We have to be.
Something men may not understand, women have no chance of ever getting it right in life. Ever. We will never be pretty enough, smart enough, funny enough, rich enough, thin enough. Never a good enough mom, wife, person. Never. We live in constant risk of losing our status. Where as men may earn the respect of other men, women live in a culture that relentlessly tells us, nope, not good enough.
So often what men seek, they are also compelled to destroy. Perhaps they resent the vulnerability of attraction, but regardless, they often seek to control the object of their desire. It is a huge risk being the object of men’s desire, let me tell you.
The so called red pills and blue pills, both have a great deal in common. The blue pills are focused only on the needs and wants of men, so much so they cannot even conceive of what women genuinely want. They don’t care, it is all about what they feel entitled to receive in exchange. The red pills however, are simply obsessed with figuring out how to manipulate women into getting what they want, what they feel entitled to. What’s wrong with this picture? Well, there’s very little empathy for women, a bunch of men who don’t even believe in love, and this bizarre idea that men are the only ones who ever make sacrifices. Also, a never ending sense of entitlement.
Paul said:
I agree with much of what you have written here IB.
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Tom said:
It is great to hear female voices such as yours. You sound rational, grounded and eloquent. However, I disagree with much of what you have said. Too often in my own life, I’ve seen this “entitled” and “manipulative” approach reap great results.
Numerous other men have corroborated my observation as well. If you have doubts, go to any popular bar on a Saturday night and observe. Gender relations in the US have become adversarial and women have much to blame for it.
I feel for women such as you. You seem genuine and sympathetic to the plight of men. Unfortunately, I’m afraid you’ll become collateral damage in the current gender war.
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madblog said:
Tom, RE: my post following…I have a daughter who’s unusually pretty, and she happens to be a good listener too. I don’t know if there is a man among her acquaintance who can see past her looks at all, ever. She has never, never, had a male friend who has not eventually gotten around to revealing that he was really trying to maneuver himself into a romantic relationship. And I use the term “romantic” very loosely.
Imagine realizing that you have never known a person of the opposite sex (excluding family) who actually wanted your friendship or any other type of relationship not involving sex. Try that on your self-image for a decade or two.
We have brought up a lot of superficial children who have no plans to become men and women.
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Tom said:
Hello madblog. Congratulations on having a pretty daughter who is a good listener. My most recent ex fits that description as well. She was quite inexperienced when we first met and assumed I was interested in friendship. She was wrong :). From a man’s perspective, your daughter sounds like ideal wife material. She may find that one of her “friends” is interested in becoming a loyal partner. She should capitalize on whatever interest she is receiving today. “Gather ye rosebuds while ye may.” Just be careful with the thorns.
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insanitybytes22 said:
Thank you for you comment and for your kind words. Women can and have been collateral damage in the world’s gender war for centuries. This is not about blaming men, there are just numerous factors at play that often lead men to approach love as if it were a war. That attitude, this is war, this is revenge, is not a symptom of modern times, it is something deeply ingrained in our psyches.
“Too often in my own life, I’ve seen this “entitled” and “manipulative” approach reap great results.”
That depends. Some men only perceive themselves as being “entitled and manipulative,” when in fact they are often quite gentle and gracious. “Manipulative” to them simply means taking care of themselves, embracing who they are as men. Then there are others who are all about manipulation and control and taking emotional hostages. That is a bit like politics, you can manipulate and deceive your way into office, but that does not mean you will gain the respect of the people you lead. One can “reap great results” in many areas of life, but they can be empty victories because they are based on fear and control, not love and respect. Men who get this wrong suffer, they deprive themselves of something precious.
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Tom said:
Manipulation and deceit work well in politics as well as dating. Both genders engage in it. It is just now that men are shedding that old tame “Hallmark romance” model. Look at women’s fantasies and desires. 50 shades of grey and Eat Pray Love are the most beloved female movies in a decade. Men are learning to observe what women and deliver it on a silver platter.
My fear is that this will lead to dangerously unbalanced society. Twenty percent of the alpha men will sleep with forty percent of the desirable women. We have already seen the effects of inequality in the dating market. Take a glance at the black community to understand.
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madblog said:
Think about childbirth. Every time a woman conceives, she is taking a great risk. At the end of that pregnancy, whether it ends with a full-term healthy baby (which is a rather large object to push out of a small opening in her body), or with a less-desirable outcome (which runs from difficult to tragic), she is literally risking her life.
Just try being a really attractive single young woman today. I’ve watched and listened to what one of my daughters goes through day by day. You wonder how anyone ends up in healthy relationships at all. I would not trade places her her for any treasure.
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insanitybytes22 said:
I really feel bad for my kids, too. It’s tough out there. For all our talk of female empowerment, the world has actually become less friendly for women, more hostile towards marriage, less kind about love. Everybody is suffering under this system.
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Tom said:
The risks of childbirth have been largely mitigated by easy access to abortion and birth control. Some would say those risks are nullified. The risks in dating and marriage are now borne by men.
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The Practical Conservative said:
No, having a baby still has a lot of risks, and the medicalization of birth has even introduced new ones that didn’t previously come up. I do think the benefits and ability to save more babies and mothers are good things, though, but there are real downsides that receive far too little play among a lot of folks.
Also, it’s much worse recovering from births than in the past, at least in America, where once the baby is outside your body, you don’t deserve any help or assistance from anyone else except maybe the baby’s father.
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madblog said:
Oh, I did not realize that women were no longer getting pregnant thanks to abortion and birth control. I am really behind the curve, did it six times. Why didn’t somebody tell me about this?
Actually, I was referring to childbirth when I said “childbirth”. Birth control and particularly abortion–absolutely 100% safe as it is–is usually not effective in minimizing the risks during the process of giving birth.
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Wally Fry said:
I think I’ll talk to my wife this morning about managing expectations and see how things go. If I survive the conversation, I will let you know how it went.
Great post again. You always teach me really cool things about stuff I just am so clueless about. I really thank you for that.
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insanitybytes22 said:
Thanks, Wally.;)
In a Christian context, rather than expectations and entitlement, we are in a servant relationship. Love is more like a debt you can never hope to repay, rather than an expectation to be managed. Husbands and wives are in service to each other and in service to God. It’s a much healthier approach, sure to reap better results. So many people enter marriage today thinking about what they can get out of it it, when in fact, it should be about what we have to give. That’s the only part that we really can control.
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Wally Fry said:
Amen to all that. Have heard it said it’s not fifty fifty but is one hundred one hundred percent each.
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Jenny said:
Any man who lives his life believing women are out to manipulate or destroy him, is going to hide his true self, be afraid of intimacy, and will never know what it’s like to feel loved.
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insanitybytes22 said:
I know! Isn’t that the saddest thing? That actually breaks my heart. There are so many men in the world that wall themselves off and once they do that, they can never really know what it is like to be loved.
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auroraroschen said:
I just broke up with that kind of man on Tuesday. And it broke my heart to do it. I so desperately wanted him to let me love him well, but he has resigned himself to a life of hiding his true self from even his closest friends. Praying someday he opens himself up to love.
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Tom said:
I would recommend listening to the stories of men who have had their children and life’s work stripped away in divorce court. While not all men experience this, a good percentage do. The stories of veterans who come back to cheating wives and a divorce are heart wrenching. This is a man’s reality today. You will see more and more men withdraw from marriage. If you are so concerned with the present situation, convince more of your sisters to reform the corrupt family court system.
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insanitybytes22 said:
Some of us have spent years fighting a family court system heavily dominated by MEN, before finally collapsing in exhaustion once we realized we fight a power far greater then our own, with an agenda far more complex then many of us can understand. I can tell you right now that women are not going to be able to reform the family court system. If men and women were united, perhaps we’d have a chance. I can only hope they continue to attack more married couples because that united front that refuses to play their games, has real power. They have a much harder time taking down an intact family.
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Jenny said:
“The only thing we have to fear is fear itself” Franklin D. Roosevelt
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Jeremy said:
An interesting post. I certainly agree with you that men hold no monopoly on risk-taking, but rather that the risks that men and women tend to take are different. One difference, though, is that our society has been engineered to mitigate female risk, while maximizing male risk. Does a woman risk rejection and abandonment when she enters marriage? Yes. That’s why we have divorce and child support laws. Does a woman risk assault/rape when she enters a new relationship? Unfortunately yes – that’s why we have laws to protect her. Does a woman risk physical abuse in a marriage? Unfortunately yes – again, laws. The laws don’t always catch the perpetrator, but at least they exist.
Does a man risk a woman getting pregnant when they have sex, then suing him for child-support? Yes. Oh, and there are laws about that…..to support the woman at the man’s expense. Does a man risk a woman divorcing and abandoning him when he marries her? Yes. And there are laws about that…..to support HER. True, there is less risk of a woman raping a man in a new relationship, but there are risks of false accusations being levelled against him – and laws to protect her.
I think that what a lot of the red-pill guys complain about is not that men have all the risks, it’s that we have none of the legal protections. Hopefully that will change, one day.
Where I really disagree with you, though, is your last paragraph – not so much regarding red pills, but regarding blue pills. You write that they focus on the needs and wants of men, and can’t even conceive of what women want. This is truly, truly false. Blue pill men usually want nothing more that to focus on the needs and wants of their wives – they just don’t know what those needs are, because what women tell them is not what they actually want. Blue pill men believe the myths that society tells them about women, and the things that women themselves say, and try their best to fulfill that role. And when their wives divorce them, they are truly blindsided because they thought they were doing everything right.
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insanitybytes22 said:
“Blue pill men usually want nothing more that to focus on the needs and wants of their wives – they just don’t know what those needs are….”
You are right, they do not know what those needs are. But one reason they do not know what those needs are is because they have never bothered to observe, to ask, to ponder it. Instead they are invested in how they think things should be and they get rather angry and resentful when reality doesn’t meet their expectations.
Perhaps I reveal some personal annoyance here, but it frustrates me when men are so focused on their expectations, their needs, their version of reality, that they cannot see the true needs of women. Yes indeed, I want men to “just get it” and I have been so blessed to have encountered men that do. I should probably have more compassion for those who don’t get it. I’m working on it 😉
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Jeremy said:
It also works the other way, IB. How many women understand what their husbands want? How many make the effort? How many bother to realize that what their husbands want/get out of marriage is not what the wives do? And how many of those that do realize that come to the conclusion that their husbands are simply immature, rather than male?
To me, being blue pill is the idea of being ignorant of the imperatives of the opposite gender. Both men and women are, largely, blue pill. The difference IMHO is that women feel entitled to their perspective and that the male perspective is immature. Men, on the other hand, don’t believe women to be immature, they simply don’t understand them.
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insanitybytes22 said:
“Both men and women are, largely, blue pill.”
I don’t think so, I think we are innately, naturally red pill. Something has to step in there and interfere to lead us down another path. Many people in the world however, have not gotten tangled up in the culture, have no idea what this blue pill reality even is.
The culture is powerful however, and you are right, many women are being taught the precise opposite of how to have a healthy relationship with men. It starts by trying to tell us that men and women are exactly the same, and goes on to teach us to never empathize with men, to never surrender anything, ever, and to focus exclusively on ourselves and our control over the relationship.
Right off the bat, if we believe men and women are just replicas of each other, with the same needs and wants, we’ll find nothing but disappointment. That is a prevalent theme in our culture and it does a lot of harm to relationships.
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Barry said:
I tend to agree a lot with what Jeremy has said. Unfortunately we do need laws specifically for the protection of women, and I hope that the day will come when such laws aren’t necessary. That day is probably some time away and in the meantime we have to balance laws as best we can. Sometimes they are very unbalanced.
In this country accusations of rape don’t need corroborating evidence in court. The victim’s evidence is sufficient (doesn’t need corroboration). It’s up to the defendant to prove beyond doubt that she’s not telling the truth. In other words, the man is guilty until proven innocent. There’s also no statute of limitation on rape, so if I was accused of raping someone 30, 40 or 50 years ago, I’d probably have a hard time proving I didn’t.
We also have the crime of assault on a female which carries higher penalties than assault. And while I can understand the need for it (males usually being bigger and stronger than the female) it isn’t always applied fairly. Take the example of a woman becoming angry at her partner in a restaurant. She started hitting him, so he got up from the table to leave. She continued to strike him as he continued to back away from her. He backed all the way out of the restaurant and onto the street while she continued to kick and punch him. He finally decided enough was enough, and slapped her once on the face. He was arrested for assaulting a female, and she was given a lift home by the police. And that was even after many independent witnesses corroborated the man’s story. Apparently self defence isn’t a defence if a male strikes a female.
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insanitybytes22 said:
Your country sounds even more unjust and unfair than ours is, Barry. We see similar unfairness, but not quite so pronounced. I think perhaps we do need some laws, some protections in place, but having worked in domestic violence and sexual assault for so long, I really learned that our laws only work against honorable men who genuinely care about such things, so those are the men who often get victimized by the system. The raging bulls, the genuine bad guys, they could care less, and so a protection order for instance, is just a meaningless piece of paper. Our system of laws is really built on a civilized code of honor, so those who don’t have any generally just ignore it anyway.
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Barry said:
I think all nations from time to time allow the pendulum of indignation to swing too far in one direction or the other. I think this is one example. We are generally a peaceable people, but our rate of family violence can only be called appalling. When you consider we were the fist country to give universal voting rights to women (1893), I sometimes wonder how much progress has been made.
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insanitybytes22 said:
Excellent point, Barry. That is my concern too, our own rates of family violence are appalling, in spite of all our laws and protections, in spite of so called female empowerment. I think a great deal for it has to do with male/female frustration with each other and our inability to recognize and accept difference. Along with our quest for equality, came a quest for sameness, so now we don’t even know how to relate to each other properly. Not that it was ever easy, but to my eyes, things seem to be getting worse.
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Barry said:
I’m probably not the best person to talk about relationships, as being on the autism spectrum gives me a somewhat different perspective.
I agree that some people mistake equal rights with both genders being the same. Having brought up children, it’s only too clear that certain characteristics are more prominent in one gender than the other. But at the same time I see some characteristics in some individuals, that are typically associated with the opposite sex. I don’t like to see people coerced into behaving in a particular way simply because that is what is expected of their gender. But generally speaking “vive la différence!”
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The Practical Conservative said:
These risks are exaggerated. If your wife stays home and has three or more children, there’s very little ability for her to do anything other than stay married and survive, regardless of whether the husband is good or bad. The men talking about divorce theft act like SAHMs with six kids are just as likely to frivorce as working mothers with two kids, and that’s not supported by the real data and facts. And a lot of this talk goes on in conservative-leaning parts of the internet where the women are more likely to be SAHMs with six kids in the first place, so it makes even less sense to be all freaked out about “frivorce”. Whole nother story if these guys were all hanging around Jezebel or TheFrisky, then that sort of concern makes sense, as that pool of women is where nearly all the frivorce-risk truly lies.
Women only have the power men grant them. For good or ill, women who choose to have more than two kids are just not your divorce theft risk pool, and a man picking from women who want that life can have a normal marriage.
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insanitybytes22 said:
“Women only have the power men grant them.”
Yes! Now there’s a bitter pill to swallow, but it is what it is.
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auroraroschen said:
These parts really hit home for me:
“…the entire article is aptly named “managing expectations,” as in forgedaboutit, you ain’t ever going to be loved… It is downright difficult to love men who are self-absorbed… Best case scenario, you’ll only break our hearts, but leave the rest of us intact… We are flexible and resilient for a reason. We have to be… The blue pills are focused only on the needs and wants of men, so much so they cannot even conceive of what women genuinely want. They don’t care, it is all about what they feel entitled to receive in exchange… There’s very little empathy for women, a bunch of men who don’t even believe in love, and… a never ending sense of entitlement.”
As you’ve read my blog, I imagine you recognize Bryan as a “blue pill” in the way you’ve described it here. He was always asking, in effect, “What can you do for me?” In our relationship, I as the woman was the sole risk-taker. He never risked vulnerability or stepping out in pursuit of me or anything. I hope someday he – as a Christian man – learns to love selflessly, because that is a risk worth taking.
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insanitybytes22 said:
“I as the woman was the sole risk-taker. He never risked vulnerability or stepping out in pursuit of me or anything.”
That is really frustrating because I suspect many women want to be pursued, to be desired, to have men take control at least over their own selves and what they want, and to lead the way. We’re trying to read men’s intentions, their desires, and if they don’t show us they have any, that’s not even possible.
That “What can you do for me?” is really annoying because rather than knowing what they want and simply desiring it, it’s almost as if men are having this argument with themselves, trying to assess the cost/benefit ratio, trying to talk themselves into making a commitment, trying to analyze data and create flow charts. That’s all well and good, but perhaps those calculations should made in private, because I can’t imagine any women who likes being perceived like a car you aren’t quite sure if you want to invest in, and a potential lemon of a car at that.
I sometimes joke about hubby, about being blindsided by love and waking up 30years later wondering what the heck happened. It’s more like a football tackle than endless meetings in a boardroom. 😉
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Jeremy said:
@Insanitybytes22, you wrote:
“That “What can you do for me?” is really annoying because rather than knowing what they want and simply desiring it, it’s almost as if men are having this argument with themselves, trying to assess the cost/benefit ratio, trying to talk themselves into making a commitment, trying to analyze data and create flow charts. That’s all well and good, but perhaps those calculations should made in private, because I can’t imagine any women who likes being perceived like a car you aren’t quite sure if you want to invest in, and a potential lemon of a car at that.”
It’s interesting because, from my perspective, this is very much a projection of the way females view males, rather than the opposite. A woman sizing up a potential husband is the one who considers things like how good of a provider he will be, how good of a father he will be, etc. Most men (to their detriment) do not do this, but rather simply ask themselves whether they are attracted to the particular woman and whether she makes them feel good about themselves. Period.
It is only once they have committed to a particular woman, hoping for certain things from the relationship and failing to obtain them, that they begin to wonder what they “get” out of the relationship. True, they would do better to ask what they should give…..but the nature of the blue-pill man IS PRECISELY to ask what more he should give (contrary to your descriptions of what it means to be “blue-pill”). He just gives the wrong things. He projects what HE would want if he were his wife, and tries to give his wife those things – and those things are not what she wants.
Women do the same thing. At the risk of TMI, years ago during a time when my own marriage was rocky, I discussed with my wife how I felt my needs were not being met by her. She looked at me, bewildered, and replied “what do you mean? I took your suit to the drycleaners this morning!”
I couldn’t help but laugh. What did I care about the drycleaners? She was projecting her desires onto me. We are all guilty of that, and need to introspect, both to ascertain our own needs, as well as to realize the different nature of the needs of our spouse. And, (at the risk of being repetitive), NOT to feel certain of the maturity of our own desires and the immaturity of the desires of our spouse.
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insanitybytes22 said:
“A woman sizing up a potential husband is the one who considers things like how good of a provider he will be, how good of a father he will be, etc. ”
I’m not even really sure women do that, at least not consciously. Perhaps we should, but we tend to be drawn more instinctively to characteristics that would align with those things. So it’s not even a conscious choice. We wish to be pursued and desired, because someone aggressive enough to pursue and desire us would also make a good provider and father.
You are quite right about women trying to please men in all the wrong ways, like going to the dry cleaners. I did a post a while back about oven cleaning and my hubby having to explain to me that a clean oven was not what he truly required from me.
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Eric said:
IB2:
In reality, the Gamesters and femihags are mutually dependent on each other. Neither can operate in world where love takes the place of competition and neither believe in love or compatibility.
I think at the root, both are fundamentally homoerotic and gender supremacist who only see the other gender as a necessary evil, at best.
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insanitybytes22 said:
“…fundamentally homoerotic and gender supremacist”
Yep. Those are certainly dominant themes within feminism and the same themes only reversed, that I observe in many of the churchian gamers. I think there are quite a few red pills however, that are simply well intentioned men trying to figure out gender relations. Not all of course, but many of them have a goal of wanting connection, of desiring relationships between men and women. Feminism seeks to completely dismantle male female relationships entirely.
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Tom said:
Eric, I appreciate your idealism. I’m not sure it is grounded in facts but still it is refreshing. Interestingly, many cultures do not have a western concept of love. Men should love pragmatically as women do and the rest of the world does. Our expectations would be better aligned with reality.
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insanitybytes22 said:
Pragmatism is “a ruthless search for mercenary advantage.” That is not love at all, that is war. Very few women love pragmatically, in fact the precise opposite, we tend to love contrary to our best interests.
That is one problem with red pills, men tend to take their perceptions of their own selves and project those onto women. What you tend to believe about women and hypergamy, you are actually saying about your own selves and your own behavior.
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Tom said:
@insanitybytes22
From Merriam Webster. Pragmatism is a reasonable and logical way of doing things or of thinking about problems that is based on dealing with specific situations instead of on ideas and theories.
Red pill is based on evolutionary psychology corroborated by years of in field testing. I’ve found red pill and game to be much more accurate predictors of human behavior than the old blue pill idealism. Both genders are hypergamous in different ways. I don’t see many men on the hunt for chaste and homely Christian wives. Then again, I don’t see many women on the hunt for boring and kind average joes.
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insanitybytes22 said:
“Red pill is based on evolutionary psychology corroborated by years of in field testing.”
Disputed evo/psych, the same evo/psych promoted by many atheist evangelizers, such as Dawkins. The kind of evo/psych you guys so often rely on is problematic for a number of reasons.
Love is simply not pragmatic and neither is the nature of attraction, if you are trying to define either as being rooted in either logic or reason. To have reasonable and logical love, requires one to remove love from the equation entirely, which is precisely what Tomassi did in his post. Love is not rational or reason based, it simply isn’t, and to try and make it so tends to fly in the face of Christian values.
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Tom said:
I try to think about things on the basis of probability. What is more likely to work? Looks, money, and status combined with game have a high probability of functioning. Evolutionary psychology is disputed by some and corroborated by others. It is only a theory, but the preponderance of evidence seems to validate its findings.
Nobody likes to think they are being “gamed”. The first time I watched a girl apply her warpaint was a revelation. She underwent a metamorphosis right before my eyes. I then realized that I was being gamed.
Game is the male equivalent of warpaint. It is a countermeasure in a sense.
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The Practical Conservative said:
A kind man isn’t necessarily boring. The assumption is weird.
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Tom said:
I said “kind and boring.” It is the combination of the two traits that is so repulsive to modern women.
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The Practical Conservative said:
How often does it happen though, really? IDK, I’m not a woman who finds people in general boring though.
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insanitybytes22 said:
Language however, is very complex, because men tend to equate “kind” with “nice,” and to perceive “nice” as “to submit and surrender all.” Men who collapse in a puddle like a plate of over cooked pasta are often perceived as “kind and boring,” brotherly perhaps? Those kind of men make great friends, but they are seldom perceived romantically.
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The Practical Conservative said:
I’ve never heard men offline refer to another dude as kind. No women either. They just use nice or even straight up say a guy is boring or dull.
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Tom said:
@The Practical Conservative
Try dating online and see how well “kind and boring works.” The word “kind” itself connotes all kinds of beta virtues that are eschewed by modern women.
As for pregnancy, I stated that it has never been easier to terminate a pregnancy than before. The risks of carrying a child to term may not have disappeared but if there is no pregnancy, there is no risk.
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insanitybytes22 said:
“The risks of carrying a child to term may not have disappeared but if there is no pregnancy, there is no risk.”
Okay, well here’s some of that characteristic blindness and lack of empathy I often speak of. The risk of pregnancy, whether impregnated or not, is significant and always present. Once impregnated, the act of abortion and termination can have life time consequences for women, consequences she may not even realize until much later.
To so casually dismiss the biological realities that women face, shows a complete inability to empathize with women, which is pretty much the point I made in this post. You think nothing of women’s biology because you are endlessly focused only on your own and even that you do not understand.
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madblog said:
I wish I could like your comment more times IB. And for the first time, I do so wish some men were able to conceive.
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Tom said:
With all due respect, I’m only stating what many women are practicing. There have been over 50 million abortions since it was legalized. Plan B is readily available in most pharmacies. Some women are obviously against abortion for religious reasons, but many aren’t. It is used today as a form of birth control! I personally am not so cavalier about abortion, but many women are.
I also thank my maker that I’m not able to conceive.
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Tom said:
I can still empathize with women, but I’m adapting rapidly to the new environment. Empathy is beta and “beta bux” of course.
What a strange world we live in…
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Tom said:
Just one last thought. It is hard to believe a woman could accidentally get pregnant in this day and age (assuming there is no drug use, alcohol etc..). If a woman uses a birth control pill combined with spermicide and diaphragm, the odds are already low. If she combines that with the rhythm method, then the chance of conception decreases further.
All of the women I’ve been with were meticulous about taking their oral contraceptive, tracking their cycle and generally behaved responsibly. What professional middle-class woman is reckless with family planning these days? This is why I maintain that the risks of pregnancy have diminished significantly. If a woman takes care to avoid pregnancy, there is no pregnancy.
I can empathize with the fear of getting pregnant but in actuality it is easy to prevent.
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insanitybytes22 said:
Like many so called red pills, you are so busy trying to compete with women, that you cannot possibly empathize. To empathize is weakness and you are too busy trying to prove your status in your Greek alphabet. May you live your life wrapped in your precious beta bux with the other faux men. Go away, I’ve had quite enough of you and your arrogance.
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madblog said:
Here on Planet Earth, humans are not quite as able to control and easily manipulate all possible outcomes as they seem on your planet. The science of contraception has not quite delivered certainty. (Actually not even close.)
I really think I prefer my planet. I never feared pregnancy.
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lang3063 said:
I never feared pregnancy either. It’s a miracle for women and men. If “pills,” hags and other assorted miscreants can only be who or what they are by killing children and telling God where to go there is no hope for them. Love you like crazy, Madblog. Thanks for risking everything on me.
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insanitybytes22 said:
Ah, if that is not the sweetest thing. 😉
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madblog said:
I know you do. It was no risk at all. ^This guy would’ve welcomed any number of kids who came our way.
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Tom said:
I’ll just post these stats and leave. I’m sure there are more accurate and reliable sources but this is a good start.
OCP+Sponge w/ perfect usage is 99.97 percent effective.
Have a good weekend ladies.
Combination Oral Contraceptives (“The Pill”)
99.7% effective alone with perfect use – 92% effective alone with typical use Combination OCP + Cervical Barriers = 99.98% effective with perfect use – 98.88% effective with typical use
Combination OCP + Male Condoms = 99.99% effective with perfect use – 98.8% effective with typical use
Combination OCP + The Sponge = 99.97%effective with perfect use – 98.72% effective with typical use
Combination OCP + Female Condoms = 99.98% effective with perfect use – 98.32% effective with typical use
Combination OCP + Emergency Contraception* = 99.97% effective with perfect use – 98% effective with typical use
Combination OCP + Withdrawal = 99.98% effective with perfect use – 97.84% effective with typical use
Combination OCP + Spermicide = 99.94% effective with perfect use – 97.68% effective with typical use
http://www.scarleteen.com/article/sexual_health/the_buddy_system_effectiveness_rates_for_backing_up_your_birth_control_with_a_
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insanitybytes22 said:
Men like you do serve a purpose in the world, you make me love and appreciate my own husband even more. Somehow I managed to win the lottery there. I share Madblog’s sentiments, I never had reason to fear pregnancy, but I also never had the misfortune to be with a man who valued me so little, as so many of you red pills do. I really feel bad for women today, they have to wade through so much arrogance and disrespect to try and find someone who is halfway human.
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Michael said:
I have no desire to have relationship with women anymore. That’s not because I had a bad exprience with girls in the past, but I saw many men who suffered during relationship. Yes, some women experience that too, but men are most likely to blame regardless what the men do. I had friends and I said friends in plural, who used to be happy, humble, and always smiled turned to be quiet, always show sad face, and hardly show any smile after they got married. Most women nowadays demand too much when they are in relationship and will be irritated once their demand can not be fulfilled. They will nag, and become controlling. Of course, not only 1 or 2 men experience this, but too many. Men will take great risk when they start their relationship with women, especially when they get married. Why? In marriage, there will be problem and usually a wife will always win and the husbands are more likely yield and choose to quiet and distant. If the problem becomes bigger, the husbands are more likely to leave the house regardless what the husbands do. During divorce, a husband is more likely to lose everything while their ‘lazy’ wife will get everything. Yes, those laws were created by MEN to protect women from harm, but now even nowadays women even can’t show appreciation toward that law and still blame men how bad men do to women. Well, that’s a risk men must take when they start their relationship with women, so to prevent all of these bad things happened to me, I’d rather protect myself from any kind of relationship with women.
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madblog said:
…and I was talking about risks during childbirth, not the risk of becoming pregnant. Not to bemoan the woman’s lot, but simply to back IB in saying that whether you are a man or a woman, your life will be risky. In the real world.
And for the rest, we hardly needed to speak. Thanks.
If we’re not careful, we are likely to make life a self-fulfilling prophecy; just as on the interwebz you will surely find ginned-up stats to back any agenda.
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madblog said:
The above comment was directed at Tom.
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Freedomborn ... Aussie Christian Focus said:
Yes insanitybytes22 I have had this type of relationships with men that you shared about but I have also known some very Loving Christian men who put their wives first as God asks them to do, I think we need to be careful not to put all men in the same box, as we know Jesus put us first and as confirmed below so must men but we too have to submit to their Authority and respect them, yes it’s 100% Love both ways.
Ephesians 5:22-25 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. Husbands, Love your wives, even as Christ also Loved the Church, and gave Himself for it. K.J.V
I have never seen a Marriage end for any reason where the Wife is Loved and cherished as Christ Loves the Church and her Husband considers her needs first and appreciates her as his Helpmate physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually.
Or have I seen it end when a wife Loves and willingly submits to her Husband respecting his role as Spiritual Leader under God and so having the final decision in all matters of importance in the Spiritual welfare of the family and when she supports and encourages him as his Helpmate, both in words and actions.
When both honour their Marriage vows to remain committed through the good and bad, to keep the Marriage bed pure, both physically and in their thoughts, to not withhold physical contact, to always consider each other as people of worth and to forgive continually and not focus on weaknesses and shortcomings but each others strengths.
Can we do all these things in the flesh, No it must be put to death and to find each other we need to find Jesus first, only He can empower us through The Spirit to live the Christian Life and so have a good Marriage too.
Christian Love in Christ Jesus – Anne
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insanitybytes22 said:
Amen, Anne. Nothing I disagree with there 😉
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