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bestsellers, Christianity, gay marriage, literature, Oprah, popular culture, promotion, Rob Bell
For those who don’t know, Rob Bell is a former Christian pastor recently featured on Oprah who wrote a book with his wife called The Zimzum of Love: A New Way of Understanding Marriage.
It’s a bit jaded of me, but generally if you are being supported and promoted by the popular culture and praised by all the big Hollywood media moguls, and on the NY Times bestseller list, there’s probably something wrong. John 15:18 says, If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. Hopefully those of us in the Western world don’t have to experience too much hatred, but it is simply a fact of life that those who speak the truth will not always be popular.
So Rob Bell’s claim to fame at the moment is his support and advocacy for gay marriage in which he claims the church will soon come around and start embracing it. People are praising him and admiring him for his bravery and the alleged suffering he is enduring for taking this radical stance. Uh, call me crazy, but I just don’t see the suffering to be found in being praised and admired by Oprah, HuffnPuff, being flown all over to promote yourself, and enjoying huge book sales.
I mean, I think he’s misguided, but I hardly count myself as evidence of one’s suffering. I suppose he could read my unfavorable blog review and feel tormented by my endless words, but beyond that, I sure don’t see him suffering for his “radical views.”
Anyway, there are numerous problems with the things Rob Bell is promoting. First of all he says, “Loneliness is not good for the world. Whoever you are, gay or straight, it is totally normal, natural and healthy to want someone to go through life with.”
One of the biggest problems in the world is that people go seeking fulfillment in other people, in the idea of marriage. We also tend to seek fulfillment in material things, in shopping, in drugs, in pornography, in status, etc etc. That is just pouring things into the abyss of your soul, often with tragic consequences. From the perspective of marriage, so many of our relationship troubles come from expecting someone else to make you happy, from expecting them to relieve you of your loneliness, from trying to burden another person with all your emotional wants, needs, and desires.
It’s a bit depressing to listen to a Christian act as if loneliness is not an internal problem that resists an external solution. Seek ye first the kingdom of God! Matthew 6:23. Single, married, widowed, housebound, it does not matter, you have a savior that wants you to fall in love with Him, that wants you to be so filled with His presence, that you aren’t lonely, you’re over flowing with abundance and peace. It is from that overflow that relationships can happen…or not. People are only the earthly frosting on the cake, they are not the substance. It’s lovely to have companionship, love, a soul mate, but if you are deeply lonely outside of marriage, you may well be deeply lonely within a marriage too, and deeply disappointed that your spouse has now failed you. There is nothing worse than being with somebody and feeling so terribly lonely and abandoned. That is worse than just being alone in the first place.
“Loneliness is not good for the world” Yes, but often I wonder if that ache wasn’t Divinely placed there, with deliberate intent, so we would know to seek our Source. There are so many distractions in the world to lead us in a different direction, but none of them will ever fill you up quite like a relationship with God. He is enough. Add yourself into that equation and it will be more than you can even handle.
The second thing that Rob does is say, “I think culture is already there, and the church will continue to be even more irrelevant when it quotes letters from 2,000 years ago as their best defense.”
Ai yi yi. I just want to wail in despair over this one and me wailing away is not a pretty sight. Those beautiful love letters, scripture, the word, the wisdom of those who came before us, not good enough as far as Rob is concerned. Irrelevant. And what of our redeemer, our savior, who died for us 2000 years ago. Is He also now to be deemed irrelevant, relegated to the dustbin of history, no longer cool?
I’m sorry Rob Bell, but it is you who have no defense. Always when there is something in scripture, something about the nature of God that we do not understand, the error is going to be on our end. Always. This is just common sense. Here’s the Creator of the universe and His ways……and here is you and what you want to perceive as true. Nearly always if you are willing to examine yourself and to take it to God, He’ll explain it all to you, He’ll teach you, He’ll show you, with great patience and mercy.
Also, “the relevancy of the church” does not take precedence over scripture. Christ is the relevancy of the church, not the number of people you appeal too. Some may think I jest about this, but the most popular church in my area, the church with the most members in it, has completely removed Christ’s name from everything so as not to make anyone uncomfortable. How can you have a body of Christ with no head? That’s almost creepy.
****The word Rob Bell is looking for is tzimtzum. It comes from Issac Luria to explain his doctrine, the Lurianic Kaballah. The cargo ship that sunk in the book, “The Life of Pi” was also named the Tsimtsum. So, the “Zimzum of love,” it all sounds very spiritual, very intellectual, like some ancient form of wisdom and Rob Bell is a NY Times bestseller along with other awesome pieces of literature like…. 50 shades of Grey, which was an “electronic bestseller” for obvious reasons.
See, there's this thing called biology... 
May be he is just using his fame to do something good for the gay community that shld b appreciated ! Your point is relevant there is truth in God , for there are many things in the world which does not have an answer. He , Himself created this world with a purpose God is there ,a supreme being does exist by different names . 🙂
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I first became aware of Rob Bell back in May of 2011, when he was still a pastor (and apparently not, at the time, a celebrity). He wrote a book questioning whether or not hell exists. I wrote a post about it, which I reposted last November. I agreed with him back when I published my first post four years ago, but I haven’t really thought much of him since then (I’m not an Oprah fan) until I read this post of yours, IB.
I haven’t read his latest book, and I probably won’t, but I agree with his support for gay marriage. And I also tend to agree that, unless the church starts to “come around” — not just on this issue, but on other matters in contemporary society — it will continue to lose its relevance and influence. In fact, according to Pew Research, a third of young Americans say they don’t belong to any religion.
Some of the reasons for this drop in religious affiliation, according to several studies, include child abuse scandals, open discrimination against gays, attacks on women’s rights, support for war, pushing for religion in science classrooms, prayer-led public meetings, denying the separation of church and state, and withholding medical care in favor of prayer for children. Because of positions (formal or informal) of the church, the church is becoming irrelevant to many Americans particularly younger Americans. Even belief in God by Americans, while still high relative to other first-world nations, is dropping.
Of course, I’m an atheist, so what do I know? As your fan SilenceofMind reminds me every time I comment here, atheists are stupid.
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Well doobster, I think there has been a great deal of propaganda put forth that has lead many to become completely unable to see the all the horrors available to us in the secular world, too. There is huge media attention given to sexual abuse scandals in the church, but nearly nothing said about the thousands of scandals within our public school system and other secular institutions. At last count, there were 2376 cases of reported child rape within our public school system and yet the media is still reporting priest scandals from 30 years ago.
The secular world is not a utopian paradise, it is also full of corruption, abuse, violence. There are phenomenal rates of suicide, depression, addiction. To act as if the church and religion create all the issues in the world is short sighted to say the least.
“I also tend to agree that, unless the church starts to “come around” — not just on this issue, but on other matters in contemporary society — it will continue to lose its relevance and influence”
The relevance of the church however, is Christ. To remove Him from the equation is to completely remove the relevancy of the church entirely, which defeats the whole purpose.
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“The relevance of the church however, is Christ. To remove Him from the equation is to completely remove the relevancy of the church entirely, which defeats the whole purpose.”
Exactly! Ya know what, perhaps Rob Bell’s purpose in the church is to get us to talk about these things and to see what the whole point is: Christ. I completely disagree with Bell, but I do appreciate that he’s putting a magnifying glass to the world’s concerns. These are issues we must address. It always comes back to Christ, of course, but these questions will not go away if we just dismiss them. I suspect that the real issue is that the world is not seeing our radical love and grace and not so much these particulars, though. Bell seems to be promoting a pseudo-love (which is a love without truth). That, of course, is no love at all, and is no real answer for the world. Let’s really show the world this real love of Christ!
Okay, rant out…
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IB, I never said that the secular world is a utopian paradise and that there is not corruption, abuse, and violence outside of the church. Nor did I suggest that any of that was created by the church.
But don’t forget that, in this country still, nearly three-quarters of Americans claim Christianity as their religion and around 90% of Americans claim to believe in God. Thus, the vast majority of cases of sexual abuse in public schools, of corruption and violence, of suicide, depression, and addiction are done by Christians who believe in God, not by atheists.
What I did said was that if the church continues to stick its head in the sand about things like gay marriage, women’s rights, and calling creationism science and wanting to teach it in public schools, it will continue to lose its relevance and influence.
And by the way, there are others in this country who are not Christian and the relevance of their places of worship, whether you call them churches, temples, synagogues, mosques, or meeting houses, is not Christ. Christ as a deity is unique only to Christianity, so you seem to be suggesting that any religion other than Christianity has no relevancy. And yet you deny Christian arrogance.
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You know what, you make some good points. Christianity is not losing people on the issues, however, (Christianity is *meant* to be counter-cultural), but is losing due to our lack of love. We are not radical enough. We are not showing extreme love. That’s why it’s failing.
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Quixotic
That’s a good point..actually that’s a great point. You know Jesus wasn’t talking to Himself when He said the two greatest commandments were to Love God and then our neighbor, and all the rest would follow. Nothing else matters if that love is absent..”on these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets”
Oh…and our neighbor would include non believers I suspect. Just sayin.
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Wally,
I couldn’t see an option to “reply” under your comment, so hopefully you’ll get this.
Great verse and I agree with you! Our “neighbor” is both the believer and unbeliever. “For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.'”–Galations 5:14
Also, the unbeliever needs to see us stop cutting each other down. Jesus said this about loving our “brothers” (other Christians): “A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.” — John 13:34-35.
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“We are not radical enough. We are not showing extreme love. That’s why it’s failing.”
I look at it in a slightly different way. The church is losing ground culturally because we Christians are happy to intellectually assent to certain dogmas, doctrine’s and truth, but we are less willing and eager to follow the teachings of Christ.
In other words, we talk the talk and very few of us really walk it. If we who believe this stuff don’t consider it important enough to live out, why the heck should non-believers? If it is so great and life changing, why don’t we follow it?
Those outside looking in, can see right through our words.
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Great perspective and I 100% agree!
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Hey Quixotic
Yes I did get it…just had to look for it some LOL. I had forgotten the verse in Galatians…well done. Also the one out of John. It’s tough though, I mean, where is the line? There is a time to confront untruth..but how do we know? Ahhh..perhaps The Bible provides the answer yet again..surprise! James 1:5 “5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.”
Even tougher with some unbelievers. You know that from watching what goes on here sometimes. Hey, now that’s funny really, as some believers argue among themselves about the best way to deal with unbelievers. I have been upbraided for engaging atheists, and I have been upbraided for not being confrontational enough…sigh.
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I have a query…the world judges us Christians by what we stand against. Then what is it we support? What can we say to those who focus only on the negative?
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It’s a good question. Others probably have a better answer, but I support truth, love, mercy, redemption, forgiveness. I support marriage,families, children, and serving the least among us.
However, I also tend to view this as a positive thing, “the world judges us Christians by what we stand against.” As the saying goes, If we cannot stand against something we’ll fall for anything. Christ Himself says in Matthew 10:34, “Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.” A sword of truth, of scriptures.
Love can be a complex issue, but Christ talks about how He came to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother. I always think of teen agers and parenting, when you truly love a kid you are often called to tell them no, to stand for the truth. It’s not loving to refuse to stand against something, because the goal there is generally to prevent harm from befalling somebody. Often kids will judge you based on the heat of the moment and what you stand against, but when we grow up and get some wisdom under us, we can often see the good intent there.
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Relevancy to the current culture may well build huge churches and fill pews but it won’t fill the the seats of Heaven.
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Well said and amen
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It may have filled pews in the past and help build big churches, but those days are coming to an end. Barna came out with a report that says even “Christians” are attending church less and less. I predict that in 20 years, the Mega Church concept will be dead.
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Oh dear…I hate it when brothers and sisters in Christ shoot each other down. I don’t usually name names so as to not gossip. I don’t think that’s what you are doing here, though, because Christians need to stand up publicly and address this issue. He’s leading people astray and I think he believes he’s right. 😦 BUT, I want to say to Rob Bell, “What the heck are you doing???” ::sigh:: I agree, any Christian endorsed by the world gives me major pause. Just on his popularity alone it makes me think that he is in the wrong, but of course, we also have Scripture that shows that as well.
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It’s tough knowing when to name people, isn’t it? I only pick on people much bigger than me who are receiving a great deal of media attention. Once they’re all over the talk shows, most of the world already knows what they’re up to, so I can’t very well gossip or reveal any secrets about them that they haven’t already disclosed publicly.
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Yes, exactly. I’m never sure about this. It always feels weird to me to mention anyone by name. I error on the side of caution. I think if we are able to humbly discuss public figures in a way in which we acknowledge that we probably don’t have all the facts, that’s okay. Of course, I don’t see anything wrong with having a criticism about something that someone said in their own words (thereby, it’s not gossip, it’s truth). I see a lot of people get really mean and attacking and I think that there is a way we can criticize without doing that. I think as a culture we have mostly lost that ability, unfortunately.
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I don’t know, quixotic faith. The Apostle Paul didn’t hesitate to name Demas for leaving or Alexander the coppersmith for doing him great harm. I don’t see a problem with warning people about a wolf in sheep’s clothing.
Becky
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Hmm…but I am no apostle! And I stick by my statement that we typically don’t know all the facts. Of course if someone is teaching something contrary to scripture we can call them out on it. But I’ve heard “false prophet” and “false teacher” and “heretic” thrown around so much over mere differences of opinion just because strong emotions were involved. I’d rather error on the side of caution. The world is watching…
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Yes, the world is watching. And if someone professing Christ says there is no hell and everyone goes to heaven or says some part of the Bible isn’t true, the watching world needs to know that those ideas are not consistent with Christianity.
I don’t think we need to be hesitant to stand up for what the Bible teaches.
Becky
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I think Bell is one of those people whose own crusade to point the church back to, quote, “relevancy” (shudder…) over the years certainly places him in the category of being called out by name. It comes as absolutely no surprise to me to see him being besties with someone like new age high priestess Oprah.
This stuff we’re watching unfold here I believe is very much the first phase of the “Great Apostacy” from scripture…
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Thetruth, I wonder if he and Joel Osteen do lunch?
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Kinda doubt it, even though Id say they are more or less equals in their heretic status… Osteen doesn’t strike me as the type who’d have enough hipster cred for Bell to hang out with, but then again, if you’re already mainstream enough for Oprah, then who knows…
The guy I wonder about what kind of lunch meetings he has is Rick Warren, with his CFR brethren…. Think about how messed up THAT is.
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Yean…thetruth…Rob Bell is too cool for Joel Osteen huh?
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Here’s an interesting article on exposing false teachers. It also addresses naming names.
https://shepherdguardian.wordpress.com/2013/09/05/is-it-right-for-a-christian-to-expose-false-prophets-and-false-teaching-by-damon-whitsell/
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Reblogged this on Christian Heritage News.
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Thank you for the reblog, much appreciated.
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“I think culture is already there, and the church will continue to be even more irrelevant when it quotes letters from 2,000 years ago as their best defense.”
I have to agree with Mr. Bell on this point. The culture is there already. The battle over this has been fought and it is over.
While I don’t think the Bible is irrelevant in any way, it will certainly be used to portray the church as irrelevant on this topic by those who support gay marriage. They will, in turn, use that irrelevancy to say that the message of the Church, ie the Gospel, is also irrelevant. We should not help them slit our throats.
Gay marriage is not the end of the world, and we shouldn’t anchor the real message of the gospel to it. The message of the cross can flourish in any culture when we focus on it, rather than the current political or cultural battle of the day. The church transformed the Roman empire and homosexuality was rampant in that culture.
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Jim, I don’t agree that the culture is there already. In the majority of the states that legalized same-sex unions (they aren’t “marriage” no matter what they say), the courts mandated the change. Not the voters. Even here in California the very liberal electorate twice voted to disallow same-sex marriage, but a court ruling threw out our democratically passed law/constitutional amendment. The thing is, with the enculturation of children by our public schools, the change will take place within another generation, should Christ tarry. It’s our children and grandchildren that will find themselves facing some real battles, I fear.
But it’s actually funny to hear Rob Bell talk about the church as if it only comprised those of us in the West. Never fear. God’s Church is His bride, and He will not let it become irrelevant. However, those fast-growing numbers of believers in Asia may be sending missionaries to the US, even as we’ve done to Europe.
Becky
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Rebecca, when I say it is over I mean this: The battle for the hearts and minds of the younger generation is lost. Those of us who are older are going to die off and be replaced by all the young people coming up. They will approve gay marriage, state by state, in 20 years or less. At least if you believe the polling.
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I guess I’m still of the mindset that God will have His way. I think of Judah a generation before they were taken into exile by the Babylonians. Out of seemingly nowhere came a boy king named Josiah who instituted a great revival. I think we should pray for just such a movement in our land. And I think we should pray for God’s mercy. It might be that, like He did with the Assyrians Jonah preached to, He will relent and bring us to repentance. James says we don’t have because we don’t ask. May our generation not be guilty of not asking.
Becky
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When I look around at the world, I don’t see God having His way at all. At least not with us! If you look at the Great Commandments as an expression of what how He desires we live, I think we would have to give ourselves a D- (and that’s grading on a big curve!) He wants us to love each other, we are absolute failures at that. He wants us to love Him, and we could care less about that.
It is true that God will have the final word, so in that sense I think you have it right. Of course, sometimes God uses judgment to bring His people back and there have always been periods of renewal throughout history. With you, I pray that for a revival. Absent something like that, Gay marriage will be a reality everywhere, even in Texas. It is just a matter of time.
Perhaps God has handed us over?
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“He wants us to love each other, we are absolute failures at that. He wants us to love Him, and we could care less about that.”
Whenever I say things like this, I always wonder, so who is this “we” I speak of?? Because I actually have to go on the internet to find bad theology and people being failures at love. I actually have to Goggle these things! In the absence of the bad guys heavily spotlighted by our media, I just see a whole lot of people struggling to make their way in the world against some pretty over whelming odds. Call me arrogant if you want, but I don’t give myself a D-. In fact, when I find people working on c+ I’m so horrified I usually blog about them.
God has not handed us over. I’m not sure what will happen in 20 years. For all I know Christ could come back next week.
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Perhaps He has, and if we who hold to what the Bible teaches are like the prophet Jeremiah, warning the culture though God had told him ahead of time they wouldn’t listen, then so be it. But I think its vital for us not to stand silently by because we think we’re on an inevitable slide. Of course we are. Revelation doesn’t hide how things will end. But may we be found faithful to that end!
Becky
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Jim, true there will be gay stuff till time closes; but the real issue that has made inroads because of cleverness, is the assumed acceptance of the term ‘gay marriage.’
Leave the word ‘marriage’ alone. Call it something else: for history, nature, common sense, and God have all agreed that marriage is pretty much a union of opposites, not a yoking of two of the same.
Nobody is denying or attacking peoples ‘rights,’ as you can do whatever you want, but folks make the mistake of thinking that they can create their own dictionary, and expect everyone else to agree with definitions that are impossible.
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“He wants us to love each other, we are absolute failures at that. He wants us to love Him, and we could care less about that.”
Whenever I say things like this, I always wonder, so who is this “we” I speak of”
I am talking about humanity in general.
“Call me arrogant if you want, but I don’t give myself a D-.”
I wasn’t grading you either. I was speaking in general terms. But I would probably give myself a higher score than the Lord would, knowing how easy I can be on myself!
“Because I actually have to go on the internet to find bad theology” or TV. I sometimes hear it in church.
I think God might give us believers a C+ – B- on our theology test, but our grace for practical application of those truths would be scored lower.
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grades, not grace.
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“The church transformed the Roman empire…”
Today it often seems as if the Roman empire is transforming the church. It’s also interesting to note that the more the church has tried to adapt itself to the culture, the more people have fallen away. For all our murmurings as a people, we tend to lose respect and wander off from things that lose their structure.
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‘Also, “the relevancy of the church” does not take precedence over scripture. Christ is the relevancy of the church,’
I could park my truck and have lunch with this observation. This is loaded. Somehow the relevance of RB is lost in this truth, nice work ib.
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Here’s another article you might find interesting, IB. http://www.moorematt.org/rob-bell-oprah-winfrey-other-people-that-dont-speak-on-behalf-of-the-true-church/
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“There are so many distractions in the world to lead us in a different direction, but none of them will ever fill you up quite like a relationship with God. He is enough. Add yourself into that equation and it will be more than you can even handle.”
Em, are you not a happily married heterosexual woman? You’ve painted a picture of a perfectly fulfilled married life – what on earth do you think you know about a lifetime of loneliness?? So easy to imagine you would have been fine just with your imaginary god all these years.
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Violet, how nice to see you! It’s been a while.
As I said in my post, some of the loneliest people can be co-existing within marriages, so marriage is not the panacea for all that ails you. I seem to remember you rather frowned upon the idea of marriage yourself for assorted reasons? It’s odd, because than people flip around and start hollering about how marriage is a civil right and we can’t doom people to a lifetime of loneliness. I’m simply agreeing to the first part, unmarried people are not doomed to a lifetime of loneliness.
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Unmarried people who aren’t bothered about being in a relationship may indeed not be doomed to a life of loneliness, but people who yearn for relationship but are denied it for whatever reason, obviously will have a different experience. You’re mixing things up here. You know that telling gay people they aren’t allowed to get married undermines the status of their relationship, suggesting their partnership is somehow less than that of heterosexuals, or indeed ‘wrong’. I don’t personally think much of the idea of marriage, but that doesn’t mean I’d attempt to deny to it to any consenting adults wanting to formalise their relationship in a traditional manner.
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That’s my point exactly, Violet, you don’t think much of the idea of marriage yourself, but marriage is so important it must be available to gays so they can establish status in their relationship. That’s actually a huge double standard, Violet.
Also, it doesn’t matter if you’re gay or straight, marriage is not the way to go about trying to solve emotional and spiritual issues because often people who try to do that wind up even more miserable then they were. Rob Bell does people a disservice by suggesting otherwise.
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I like you. You are so honest and snarky at the same time, and do it so delightfully well. Perhaps a bit too much on the snarky side sometimes, but still delightful.
I agree that believing another human can cure one’s loneliness is unwise. I do think that God intended for us to have some social need of each other, but not to the point that we are seeking to fill that lonely place in ways that are outside of God’s design. Ultimately though, God is the one who sustains is, so it is better to cast our cares on Him than try to expect another human to hold the weight of our cares.
Thanks for writing this. 🙂 I’m always happy to see other Christian’s standing against the tidal waves of sexual perversion, just seem to keep coming one after the other. I was caught up by the tidal waves of homosexuality and fornication, but Jesus pulled me out. 🙂
God bless you my dear. 🙂
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LOL, I am a bit too snarky sometimes, aren’t I? Just the same, thank you for your kind words, they are much appreciated. May God continue to bless you. 😉
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Do not lose your snark! You have just the right amount 🙂
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This is a good post IB and as a single person who has had my share of disastrous “me” focused relationships, I appreciate you pointing out the dysfunctional core of those where one or both parties are looking to each other for the fulfillment only God can provide. I did not understand this at all before coming to Christ and while I’m not perfect by any means, I see so many around me making bad choices because of a deep and lingering loneliness. It’s a fill me up now culture whose wave Rob Bell is riding and I agree with Quixotic Faith that it’s good someone is bringing issues like this to the surface as the church needs to get serious about what’s going on and which direction to take.
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Very well said, IB. Believers, Christ-follower’s, the church should never be concerned with being culturally or socially relevant, that is a pit with no bottom. The church need only faithfully follow Christ and the Word of God.
And yes, in many ways believer’s do not represent Christ or the Christian Life well. Just as you cannot always judge the quality of parenting by the child, you cannot judge God or the truth of His Word by His follower’s.
God did create us with a longing to be sociable, to connect to others as you said and He also created us to desire a perfect relationship and only God Himself can provide the perfection our hearts are longing for.
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When The Lord comes to take us home, the” us irrelevant Jesus followers” they will have everything the way they want, but they are not going to like it.
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My God is synonymous with Love first and foremost – no ifs, ands or buts. It appears He is not the same God as is worshipped by some commenting here.
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I used to watch Rob Bell’s numa’s (I think that’s what they were called). They were so good! He was so good! What on earth happened to him???
So sad!! ugh…
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And also… think of how many he’s leading astray (because he did have quite a following) that and he’s charismatic 😦 So sad
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