Tags
addiction, attraction, biology, love, men, pornography, relationship, sexuality
When in the course of human stupidity, my own, I am sometimes compelled to go see what the extremists are up to. This often servers a vital purpose, the truth can be found there, presented in such a blatant and obvious manner that even I can’t miss it.
One of the best examples of bombastic male peacockery gone awry, is often to be found at Alpha Game, a blog I am reluctant to link to, but alas it’s not really fair not to. The post there was entitled “Porn IS Better than the Average Woman.”
Yes, precisely, just as half a dozen cats and a good romance novel is way better than the average man. That is sarcasm by the way, although curling up with a cat and good book does sometimes carry a certain amount of appeal….
I suppose there’s not much need to elaborate on that statement, “Porn IS Better” but let me just say that there is such heart break written in there, such wounding, that it is actually hard to find the humor in it. That is some painful stuff and no, not because of what it allegedly says about women, but because of what the men there inadvertently say about themselves.
Pornography has been quite harmful to men (and women too) not just because of the addictive nature of it, the toll it takes on relationships, the obstacles it places between men and women, but the harm it has done to the male psyche. Now some people see a benefit to porn, incorporate it into their marriages, whatever. I don’t intend to argue against that nor do I want to go on anti porn campaign and try to ban “obscenity.”
I simply want to make note of one of the harmful aspects of porn and the danger that lies there. Women who engage in porn are in the customer service industry, a bit like a grocery store clerk. Their entire job is to present you with a polite and flat two dimensional version of themselves, one that you will find appealing and non threatening. Needless to say, this is not a true representation of the full nature of either retail clerks, those working in the porn industry, or women in general. This is a false presentation of the nature of women, a myopic, two dimensional, exaggerated fantasy version of one aspect of women’s character, one that appears to exists only to please you.
That idea is already quite appealing, quite desirable and we haven’t even gotten to the sexual aspects yet. Who does not crave a few moments with someone whose entire world seems to revolve around nothing but you? We live in a rather self-centered world, getting others to take the least bit of interest in you is challenging at best.
Sexuality is a powerful biological thing, it’s probably more influential on us then the desire to eat or drink water. We sexually bond with the things we have trained ourselves to sexually bond with, whether consciously or unconsciously. Pedophiles for example, tend to be sexually bonded with children, so they become compelled to seek them out. That is a horrific and appalling example of what it really means to be sexually bound. Fortunately most of us are tied to things far less harmful, some even rather amusing.
When one’s sexuality has developed and bonded with the two dimensional female characters of video games or the compliant and service oriented women of the porn world, it is only natural to be drawn to these icons, these fantasy images. One starts to expect the real world to conform to one’s own needs, so one goes seeking the cartoon women of video games or the non threatening compliance of the porn girls. One begins to desire their non threatening demeanors, their submissive natures, the control one has over them, evident in the click of a mouse….
The problem however is that rather then compliant and non threatening, girls in the real world are actually quite scary, most of us anyway. Very seldom will you ever meet a woman unable or unwilling to ever break your heart. It is what it is, women are people. Real women in the real world are more then capable of being thoughtless, scary, cruel, imperfect. Also, we don’t all look quite like the cartoon drawings of women in video games or porn videos.
When the sexual bonding of the porn world slams against the women of the real world, you often arrive at the quite logical conclusion, Porn IS Better Than the Average Woman. At that point you are truly trapped and forced to wait rather powerlessly for women to change their entire nature to now comply with your fantasies, a fantasy perception that no human woman can ever really hope to compete with. She will always fall short and you will always be dissatisfied.
The heartbreak also written in there is that no, porn is not better than the average woman. It lacks intimacy, long term commitment, spiritual growth, seeing yourself reflected in another’s eyes, an exploration of your own sacrificial nature, the strength you can discover in the midst of heartache, a genuine understanding of what it really means to be willing to lay down your life for another. From a Christian perspective, these things are absolutely vital if you wish to truly experience the nature of your Creator and your own role in the relationship. Now perhaps there are other ways to accomplish this outside of marriage, beyond building intimacy with another human being, but I’m going to say that one of those ways is probably not through pornography. Although never say never, God does work in mysterious ways, so there is always that.
Ironic to say the least that we now live in a world where men are being conditioned and sexually bound by pornography to seek the submissive and non-threatening in women, something men are already biologically pre-programmed to do, while at the same time we have feminism attempting to bind women to the non submissive, the dominant, the defiant, the rebellious, something that really is not our biological happy place at all. Given these conditions, no wonder the two genders can be like two ships that pass each other in the night, glaring at each other with resentment.
A word on the female biological happy place, an idea some women are quite uncomfortable with and tend to resist with some hostility. No human being, and women are human, truly enjoys existing in a state of perpetual resistance, seeking control over all things at all times. We seek contentment, peace, the lovely harmonious flow that comes from a place of safety and self acceptance. Our very natures demand it.
Also, I know what books we tend to read when we really are curled up with half a dozen cats.
See, there's this thing called biology... 
This is good. I need to share it with some mad people who really need to get moving 😀
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“In His image…”
So, then, what constitutes pornography?
A) A woman’s bare ankle beneath layers of petticoats;
B) A man removing his shirt;
C) A husband looking in the mirror as he and his wife copulate, and appreciating the image of his entwined wife;
D) A young man fantasizing about the woman he will later marry, but whom he does not then know for sure that he will marry;
E) A 1920s pinup girl giving the camera a saucy look;
F) Jenna Jameson refusing to do sex scenes with anyone other than her husband, whom she loves and feels possessed by?
Where do you begin drawing the line to say that appreciating the beauty of His image is wrong?
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“Where do you begin drawing the line to say that appreciating the beauty of His image is wrong?”
Ahh, good point Higharka. Here’s deal, porn isn’t about oogling an ankle, people aren’t really attracted to something “made in His image” at all, in fact, that’s the whole problem. Porn provides this fantasy creature they’ve gone and created in THEIR own image instead, because they now prefer that over the real thing. The real thing has emotions,opinions, and personhood, and yes, has been created in His image. They seek something not created in His image at all.
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Well, that logic might not work well for your argument, because, would you approve of some kind of “porn au natural,” where actors had no makeup, no surgery, and no airbrushing?
What about, say, live performance limited to non-surgery performers? Unshaven, un-plucked couples? That qualifies as “natural,” but you probably still wouldn’t approve of it.
Adam and Eve didn’t feel shame, or the need for leaves, until they’d already eaten the fruit. What does that say about the nature of paradise? Apparently that seeing completely naked people is okay (and without a marriage ceremony, no less).
Another question: do you have the same problem with baking magazines that you have with porn? (And, do you see the trap waiting for you if you answer that question?) 🙂
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When we talk about porn, people tend to only see the physical aspect of it. I’m referring to the emotional, spiritual, psychological, results of a porn addiction. How do you know when it’s become an addiction? When people start using it to avoid real life.
Also “porn au natural” is just called life or art. We all know that naked people in a National Geographic magazine aren’t porn. We know that paintings and art are not porn.
I don’t approve or disapprove of anything here, this isn’t a post about porn shame, just an acknowledgment that there is some real harm to be found there.
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Hey, I once saw someone who ruined their life because of Kafka, so you could make the same points about any kind of art. =]
How about a crusade against something worse than porn for destroying human relationships, like Facebook?
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LOL, Facebook is often a form of porn, so of course it destroys relationships. Also I’m not on a crusade. I gave up trying to change the world long ago.
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This might sound counter-intuitive but I don’t think pornography is really about women at all.
It is part of the atheist worldview of hallucinating an alternative reality when coping with real reality confuses the issue with the facts.
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“This might sound counter-intuitive but I don’t think pornography is really about women at all”
Precisely! That’s it exactly, it’s about creating an alternate reality because you don’t like the one we’ve been given.
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Porn is “part of the atheist world view”? Yes, you’ve found us out, SoM. All porn writers, producers, actors, and actresses are atheists. It’s all just part of our War on Christmas.
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Doobster,
The atheist worldview seems to prevail in times of peace and prosperity.
In Vatican II, the Catholic Church warned of the pernicious effects of modernity on the pursuit of virtue.
I’ve been plagued for decades with an atheist point of view. It’s very hard to shake.
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What does the “atheist worldview” have to do with pornography?
“I’ve been plagued for decades with an atheist point of view. It’s very hard to shake.” Oh, poor you. I’m sure God can help you shake it off if you just have faith.
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Doobster,
I already answered the question about the atheist-pornography connection.
Since my mind is my own it is up to me to instill within it the Christian Worldview.
The atheist worldview is taught in public schools, universities and permeates almost every form of media.
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“I already answered the question about the atheist-pornography connection.”
You did? I must have missed it. All I heard was your statement that pornography is not about women, it’s part of an atheist worldview.
“The atheist worldview is taught in public schools, universities and permeates almost every form of media.” Yes, I suppose if teaching science, math, history, language are all part of the atheist worldview. I suppose you believe that all one needs to learn about the true, Christian worldview comes directly from the Bible.
But anyway, SoM, I’ve learned that there’s really no point in having a dialogue with you since you are a legend in your own mind and no one knows anything nearly as well as you do. So have a good day. And, oh yeah, happy holidays.
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Doobster,
The atheist worldview sees time as discrete, separated and unrelated bits or bytes.
Consequently, each moment just happens all by itself.
This philosophy was first espoused by the heretic Catholic Priest, William of Ockham during the Middle Ages and is inconsistent with science, math and history.
The traditional, Western worldview sees time as continuous with each moment flowing into the next, the present and future finding their origins in the past.
Consequently, the Western worldview is consistent with science, math and history because its sees cause and effect as critical to reality.
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You wouldn’t know what you describe as “the atheist worldview” if it jumped up snd bit you in the butt. Over and out.
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Doobster,
I’m relaying to you what I learned at graduate school.
I have begun to think that atheism is really the result of a poor, or incomplete education.
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Ha! Where did you go to school, SoM? Bob Jones or Oral Roberts?
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Silence really makes a good point here Doobster, but you have to set aside your offense for a moment and consider the fact that these men I am complaining about in this post are actually Christians, or so they claim.
Atheism really does have it’s roots in Christianity Doobster, and coincidentally, the vast majority of atheists are former Christians.
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“Silence really makes a good point here Doobster.” Really? What good point is that, IB? That porn is part of the atheist worldview? If that’s his point, he said nothing to back it up but his own conjecture, which has no basis in fact.
Set aside my offense? I’m not offended. SoM claims that “atheism is really the result of a poor, or incomplete education.” That’s such a ludicrous — no, a downright stupid — thing for him to have said that I’m amused, not offended.
I never suggested, IB, that you were writing about atheists. In fact, it wasn’t until SoM brought it up in his original comment that the word “atheist” appears.
“Atheism really does have its roots in Christianity.” Yes, there are a lot of former Christians who are now atheists, but there were non-believers in deities long before there were Christians, IB. Atheist means without gods or God. No doubt there were those among the ancient civilizations who did not believe the myriad gods worshiped by those civilizations, just as atheists in this country today do not believe that the Christian God exists.
Seems as though you believe everything and anything grew out of Christianity, even though, in the history of civilization, Christianity is only 2,000 years old.
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Christ came into the world a few thousand years ago, but what we today refer to as Christianity really existed thousands of years before, Doobster. The word atheist is actually only about 400 years old. It didn’t even exist as a reference to “disbelief in God” prior to the French Revolution. It wasn’t until the first and second world wars that atheism really made inroads when communist regimes began to promote state atheism.
“No doubt there were those among the ancient civilizations who did not believe the myriad gods worshiped by those civilizations……”
Yes and those people would the ancient people who shared the same monotheistic belief we today call Christianity. The Egyptians and the Roman Empire were actually busy either enslaving Jews or executing Christians.
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IB, the word for atheist, which has its roots in the ancient Greek language meaning denying gods, came into vogue in the 16th century, but the practice of atheism…the philosophy of disbelief in gods…existed thousands of years before Christ was born.
And the ancient Egyptians and early Romans were not executing Christians (although they were both executing and enslaving Jews) because Christianity didn’t exist prior to Christ. So you are quite mistaken there.
And how many times have Jews, Muslims, Pagans, or non-believers been enslaved by or executed by Christians since the birth of Christianity?
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Doobster, you are so busy advocating for an atheist cause that you cannot even hear what I am saying.
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IB, I’m not advocating for anything. I am an atheist. That works for me. I don’t really care what you, SoM, or anyone else is. I am not proselytizing for atheism.
My initial comment was to SoM, not to you. And it was in reaction to his allegation, totally unfounded, that “porn is part of the atheist worldview.” For some reason, you decided to chime, saying that SoM “really makes a good point,” although I still have no idea what point it was that he allegedly made or why you believe it to be “really good.”
Then you said that “atheism really does have its roots in Christianity,” to which I responded that atheism (not the word, but the disbelieve in gods) existed way before Christianity. You also said that ancient Egyptians were busy executing Christians, but Christianity (and, therefore, Christians) came way after ancient Egypt.
But you’re right, IB. You’re writing words, but I have no idea what you are trying to say.
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Doobster,
As an atheist you don’t know the difference between a rational argument and an insult.
That’s because atheism is a mind killer.
You hallucinate alternate realities for yourself as the need arises and become angry at people who don’t accept your hallucination as gospel.
The connection between the atheist worldview and the pornography is the necessity to hallucinate alternate realities to make it work.
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It is you, SoM, who hallucinates about a supreme being, an omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient God and become angry at people who don’t accept your hallucination as gospel.
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Doobster,
That God is omnipresent, omnipotent, etc., is self-evident.
The pagan ancients reasoned out such a thing thousands of years old.
All you can do is call people stupid when you disagree with what you say.
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I call people stupid when they say stupid things and have nothing to back it up but their opinions or beliefs. Since you do that all the time, the logical conclusion is that you are stupid. And if you’re not stupid, you are simply choosing to say stupid things. Which is kind of a stupid thing to do.
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Doobster,
I back up everything I write to you.
You think belief in God is a matter of faith when such a belief is pure reason.
Yet you are an atheist which requires 100% faith, has no proof, zero evidence and reduces all knowledge to personal opinion.
Then you call people stupid when they state well known facts and lessons taught in most graduate school philosophy classes.
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“…..because Christianity didn’t exist prior to Christ. So you are quite mistaken there.”
LOL, well sheesh, Doobster, now I am somewhat offended. Do you think I just fell off the turnip truck here? Do you perceive me to be a complete moron or what? Gosh, I actually do have a basic grasp of history, you know.
If you had actually read my words instead of just assuming I was stupid, you would have encountered this tidbit, “what we today refer to as Christianity really existed thousands of years before.” The roots of Christianity were planted long before Christ was born. It’s not the subject of debate or some great deception I’m trying to pull off, just a simple statement of fact. The concept of the Christian God is older then 2000 years.
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Just so you know, IB, I wasn’t saying that you are stupid. I was saying that when SoM wrote that pornography is “part of the atheist worldview,” with nothing to back up that statement, he was saying something stupid. And when you came back and said he made a good point, you were concurring with a stupid comment.
I do believe that SoM either is stupid or makes stupid comments on your blog for effect, or to generate responses. For example, his comment that “atheism is really the result of a poor, or incomplete education” is a stupid comment. Statistics show that atheists generally have a higher level of education than the more religious among us. So to make a statement like that with nothing but his opinion to back it up is a stupid thing to do.
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Doobster,
How do you know that you aren’t the stupid one?
If you can’t cobble together even two coherent thoughts to support your claim how is anyone to know why you say what you say?
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I don’t think you just fell off of the turnip truck, IB. Nor do I think you’re stupid. I would not waste my time reading your blog if that’s what I thought.
“The concept of the Christian God is older then 2000 years.” If you are saying that the concept of a single, monolithic god (as opposed to gods for this and gods for that) existed prior to the birth of Christianity, then I agree with you. Jews, for example, believed in a single, all powerful God before Christianity existed.
But I’m not talking the “concept of a Christian God,” I’m talking about the religious belief in a Christian God. The Jews didn’t believe in a “Christian” God. It was actually Christians who embraced the concept of a single deity.
What is the foundation of Christianity, IB. Is it not the resurrection of Jesus? That happened about 2,000 years ago. So when you write, “what we today refer to as Christianity really existed thousands of years before.” if you’re saying 2,000 years before, then I agree with you. But if you’re suggesting that Christianity, the foundation of which was belief that Jesus is the son of God, sacrificed by his father to save us all, then to suggest that what we refer to today as Christianity existed before Jesus, is not an accurate statement.
And for SoM to say that porn is part of the atheist worldview (with nothing to back up that comment) and for you to say he made a good point…well, that’s just stupid.
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As you have said its quite challenging to find someone who shows a least bit of interest, especially for men because women practically hold all of the power in the dating market ( women are the choosers).
What happens is that they search for a substitute that is able to fulfill their sexual needs without having to risk or expend a lot of energy and porn seems to provide this. So I don’t think porn is the sole reason as to why men have unrealistic expectations of women and relationships its rather an effect of something that’s never been present at all. Men do want intimacy and a healthy relationship with the opposite sex. Its just there are some men who are unable to attain these goals.
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Well here goes….on second thought I’ll probably offend somebody………..;)
good stuff
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You know IB, that is one of the most thoughtful articles I have ever read about porn. And you did it without even a hint of judgement (more than I could for sure). And i agree emphatically with what you have said. You mentioned, in response to a comment a few posts back, the concept of “group-think”. I think you are correct (I had never framed human issues this way before – instead exploring the choices of individuals – which only goes part way to explaining life) and I also think that this is a factor in porn as well. I haven’t had a chance to mull this over much (BIG topic deservng of years of thought) but under the surface of our behaviour. I believe there is a constant struggle between the spiritual and the physical – basically what’s “inclusive” vs what’s “exclusive” in our natures and world. Just let me throw out a few ideas – they are pretty rough yet. The physical world is exclusive – if i have it you can’t unless you take it from me (i.e. money or possessions). The spiritual world is inclusive- i.e. the more love you give away the more you have and the more everyone else has as well. We need both – for instance we have to have food and shelter, which are exclusive, to live and we also need love and kindness and faith (some examples), all of which are inclusive. The problem as I see it is that we are lacking in the spiritual and are trying to get our needs and desires satisfied through the physical because it is easier, we don’t have to change, we crave power, etc. Once this system starts, for instance valuing everything with money, which is exclusive, it tends tp perpetuate through group-think. And that just expands. I believe that all we do and think can have a “right” application, we just often choose to misuse or misinterpret a great deal because it is easier and more common. And the more we do this,the more those around us do it. In a survival situation, for instance cave-man days or even walking the mean city streets at night, group think is a survival mechanism. However in a spiritual mode it is an avoidance mechanism that relieves us not only of making the hard decsions but also from taking responsibility – and hence from growing and having a personal relationship with God. Personally I believe that group-think was the driving force behind the tower of Babel. I also think it makes it easier to objectify women and accept porn as the “norm”. The spiritual knowledge of a woman has to be explored one person at a time – reducing her sexually to a “two-dimensional” object is going in the wrong direction.
Anyway, very thought provoking post IB. I apologize for rambling on. Thank You.
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Oh, as an aside, I suspect that was a part of the message in the loaves and fishes story as well – Jesus saying clearly that he recognizes our physical/exclusive needs and that through Faith in Him, they can be converted to spiritual/inclusive.
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Those are all such good points Paul. When you have an physical thing, like drugs or porn or money, people are usually trying to solve an internal problem, a spiritual issue. It simply cannot be done, because the more external things you try to pour into that abyss, the bigger it gets. In the spiritual however, there is huge abundance, so one drop not only fills you up, it over flows to others too.
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Meh. The 50% decline in rape tracks almost exactly with the introduction of internet porn. It may not be as harmful as you think.
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Hmm, perhaps.
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For those unlucky enough to live in a modern city, the assertion they make is precisely accurate. Your rebuttal can be condensed down to the following sentence:
“It lacks intimacy, long term commitment, spiritual growth, seeing yourself reflected in another’s eyes, an exploration of your own sacrificial nature, the strength you can discover in the midst of heartache, a genuine understanding of what it really means to be willing to lay down your life for another.” — precisely the things lacking in a relationship with the modern liberal woman.
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You missed the point of Alpha Game’s post entirely. The fact that most men would rather watch porn than be with a woman has nothing to do with the fact a real girl won’t be as hot. It has to do with the fact that most females in general think way too highly of themselves and expect too much. Men simply know they ate getting a raw deal. The answer obviously isn’t to try and look like a porn star, but staying in shape would certainly help. If women start showing genuine interest in men, they will choose the girl over the porn, that I can promise you.
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I didn’t miss the point of the post at all. The truth of the matter is that porn is making men afraid of women and it’s becoming an excuse to avoid women entirely. The nature of women is not going to change to accommodate men.
“It has to do with the fact that most females in general think way too highly of themselves…”
When you have sad men with such a low opinion of themselves, all women will be perceived as “thinking too highly of themselves.” The solution is not to try and tear women down, but rather to lift your own selves up.
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Men are not afraid, they are sick of being screwed over. Courting is from a time when women couldn’t provide for themselves. A man would show a woman he’s not going to screw her over. Now that women can get jobs, welfare, child support, alimony… what’s to stop her from screwing him over. Men aren’t avoiding women, just avoiding future headaches. Why must the onus be on men to change? Has the thought of approaching an attractive man and showing interest still bother you? If we are getting rid of traditionalism, we can’t cherry pick. If man is closed off or angry, ir doesn’t make him less of a man. Chances are his feelings are justified it will take a woman to show him that she’s trustworthy to change that. You think men are sad, but the truth is they are just pissed off. I’m not blaming women at all either, I’m blaming the same thing that created pornography in the first place – media. All the magazines and movies telling women they are better than men. Of course not all women but into that crap, but a large majority do.
Men don’t think lowly of themselves. Women think lowly of men.
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“Men are not afraid, they are sick of being screwed over.”
Okay, but that is the equivalent of fear. Men fear being screwed over. All the familiar social controls are now gone and they fear their own inability to appeal to a woman and to keep her loyal. They have no idea what value they bring to a relationship anymore, what their role is, or where their worth lies.
“Why must the onus be on men to change?”
Because that is the most empowering option available to you. It’s the one thing you can control.The alternative is to be a victim, to remain trapped “closed off or angry.”
“…it will take a woman to show him that she’s trustworthy to change that..”
Flat out, no human being can do that for you. Women cannot change you, you have to change yourself.
“All the magazines and movies telling women they are better than men..”
I know. It’s a tragedy.
“Men don’t think lowly of themselves. Women think lowly of men.”
Yes, but believe it or not, many men also have very low opinions of women and treat us accordingly. By the time women are old enough to date, many of us have declared men to be the enemy and not without just cause. There are absent fathers, alcoholism, violence, child sexual abuse, a whole world of ugly out there that most men don’t even see. Then women enter to dating world and get scammed by pick up artists and other assorted thoughtless men, and her perceptions of who and what men are can become pretty dark.
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Why is it men think lowly of women? I’d say after reading your rebuttals, you very clearly illustrate that men and women are a product of each other. If you’re aren’t willing to look at your own flaws, neither will men.
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” If you’re aren’t willing to look at your own flaws, neither will men.”
Many women tend to perceive themselves as extremely flawed. It is not men that are critical of women at all, it is our own selves and other women. So what happens in the face of relentless self criticism and criticism from other women, is that we become defensively prideful and wall ourselves off from the constant shaming that goes on.
How about those women working to provide the porn? Do the men who consume it have the right to inform those women that they need to look at their own flaws? No, those men have relinquished all moral authority, proving themselves to be complete hypocrites. The porn girls become the sinners who can’t see their own sin, but the men who consume porn allegedly now have clean hands because they are only responding to the fact that women don’t respect men more.
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Why are these men so angry anyways? Surely, it must be their own faults they were screwed over, and over, and over… If you really are a god fearing woman, it would behoove you to try to lead and set a good example for other women, noy to complain about men and think it’s up to them to change so you can be happy with them. Up to them to change so they can “keep them hos loyal”
…I swear your hamster wheel is squeaking so loudly, the axle is about to melt.
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“I swear your hamster wheel is squeaking so loudly, the axle is about to melt.”
Be afraid, be very afraid, I hand feed it chocolate covered espresso beans.
“Why are these men so angry anyways? Surely, it must be their own faults they were screwed over, and over, and over”
Listen, forget fault and blame, let’s just go with responsibility instead. If I believe a battered woman who repeats one abusive relationship after another needs to stop blaming bad guys and instead examine why she is repeating these patterns, then the same logic applies to men. Your power does not lie in celebrating your victim hood. Also, most men are not angry and porn obsessed. Most men are very kind and charming.
“If you really are a god fearing woman, it would behoove you to try to lead and set a good example for other women,…”
You think it would behoove me to council women to submit to wounded and broken men who refer to women as “hos?”
” …noy to complain about men and think it’s up to them to change so you can be happy with them..”
I’m already happy. I want those men to change so they will become happy with themselves.
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“I’m already happy. I want those men to change so they will become happy with themselves.”
Clearly
How about you stop worrying about men and start worrying about women? I don’t think that’s your job to lead us. Trust me when I say that men already have their leaders and they are giving more sound advice than you are. Submitting to women’s expectations only leads to discontent and more expectations. Just give it time and God’s plan will be revealed in due time.
BTW… “Keep them hos loyal” is just a figure of speech. But you already knew that…
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Lead you?? Why in the world would I want that responsibility?
“Trust me when I say that men already have their leaders…”
Yes I know, Some of them so called Christian men busy advocating for porn, violence, and the abuse of women.
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Good grief, lady. Obviously, men aren’t the only ones broken around here. God bless you and good night.
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IB,
Pornography is a symptom rather than a cause. Something like opium, it’s always been there, and it becomes a noticeable social problem only when we blame it for whatever we did to make things so bad that porn is already a noticeable social problem.
It’s like television, in that way. Imagine if we were all healthy, good, creative people–we’d want to spend very little (if any) time watching television, and when we did so, the programs would be excellent. It would be a marvelous way for us to present things visually to one another.
Or Facebook, too. If we were all healthy, good, creative people, Facebook would be a wonderful, helpful tool, which we could use to coordinate meetings and transfer personal news without needing to make too many phone calls. Like porn or TV in a decent society, it would be a background detail; a tool that a community of warm, bonded, caring people occasionally used to its own betterment.
There are many symptoms of our wrongness around, but we really shouldn’t conflate them with causes. We use electricity to facilitate our arrogance, our fear, and our disconnect from real people, but that doesn’t mean that electricity, any more than porn, is bad. Sin lies in the sinner; it cannot be blamed on the rock he carries (Gen. 4:4 ;-)).
Men were once able to show their usefulness to women by providing, but bookooball’s point–that government is now providing–is essentially true. En large, western women are now demonstrating that, if government will provide them with sustenance, they don’t need to respect the labor of the (primarily) men who are providing that sustenance.
That’s not you, it seems from your blog. And bookooball, if you’ll read more of IB’s posts, you might discover that she’s actually one of the much-rumored good kind of women. (At least, that’s the way she represents herself, so if she’s telling the truth, she is.)
Vox Day’s evil lies in reveling in the conflict, and deepening it. Yes, western women are using state provisioning to abuse western men, and western men who guilelessly attempt to fulfill the old-fashioned provider role are being taken advantage of. And in this time where the vast majority of these women are apparently willing to take advantage of, it behooves a sensible man to do what he can to avoid being taken advantage of. What Vox Day is trying to do is turn a defensive step into a proactive one; he wants to perpetuate the conflict by using male anger to create a backlash that could last another few hundred years, justify a new feminist counterattack, then keep right on going with this wretched social brokenness. He’s just a partisan in one side of a war, rather than someone who wants war to end. The men who follow him feel justified in behaving poorly because of the genuine injustice of their prior wounds, just as many feminists still feel ridiculously justified in their behavior because of stories they’ve been told about patriarchy.
So IB, yeah, men should suck it up and continue to be men, but the problem is, Caesar has now designed such an intrusive empire that the very act of being a traditional man is exactly what makes someone vulnerable. So manhood, in some way, needs to respond to that. If rape were not only legal but mandatory, women would certainly have to change their behavior. They couldn’t be blamed for not wanting to leave their father’s presence until they were armed and/or ready to marry. Economic rape of men is currently legal and mandatory, and physical rape in prisons similarly so. All the great forces of society–all the lawmakers, moneychangers, and soldiers–are united in the idea that men should work without reward to provide comfortable lives for women who ignore and loathe them. And when men try to rebel against that system, they are not held up as paragons of independent masculinity, but reviled as failed scum.
Vox Day is a vile instigator, but when you have the chance to address someone who’s fallen under his spell, don’t immediately curse them for having drunk too much after they were thrown onto the street. There’s time for that after you’ve discussed the more pressing issue of their evil landlord, and the threat he presents to both of you.
Give each other another chance, or Vox wins this battle.
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I enjoyed reading your reply, and you make valid points,. My question to you is, how does a war end in which you refuse to fight in? I’ll give you a hint- Luke 22:36
This indeed is a war of the sexes, and the woman who defends “women’s nature” is in fact an enemy of men. A true god fearing women would do right to only focus on finding a man of God and follow him. -Ephesians 5:24
Vox is a mere symptom of a much greater problem. I’d like to know what exactly IB thinks men should do when even so called christian women in america have been infected by feminism to some degree? Go backto theirold ways? The guys having problems are the ones clinging onto the old ways.
I’m not saying IB is bad and I do like what she is doing, is astep inthe rightdirection. Though, IB complains about men, and doesn’t realize all these things men do have evolved in defense of the feminist movement. Most of Vox’s readers don’t have what it takes to be a pickup artist if they wanted to. They are simply lonely and want to attract and keep a woman around. I can attest personally that his advice works. Sure, a lot of his advice is unorthodox, but so is women’s nature. Traditional Courting is dead, and it is up to women to accept this because it isn’t coming back until women stop following feminism.
“And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.” —John 8:45
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Bookooball
Um….we aren’t at war with women….especially our wives. Look…..bottom line is man exists in a sinful state because the first man bailed out on his responsibilities.
I just mean we need to insure we are doing right before we blame the evil feminists. Here’s an idea. ..find one and share Jesus with her.
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That’s the plan. Though it’s slim picking where I live. Might have to travel abroad.
If you don’t think we are at war with feminists, they’ve already beat you.
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Well…that was quite the comment thread. I’ve been watching it with some interest…and have some thoughts. Most of them are directed towards me and my fellow men.
Pornography…we men are the biggest users and almost all of it is produced for us. Of course its harmful; that hardly seems to be debatable. It’s harmful if we, men, watch it and it’s certainly harmful for the women providing it. But, that’s a social issue and that’s not really my area of expertise. I just base my opinion on what seems like common sense. But, let’s talk Biblically for a bit; there’s really no ambiguity there. Pornography is adultery…clearly. If one is married it is clear cut; the women we are watching are not our wives; that’s adultery through and through. Didn’t our Lord tell us that lusting after a woman is committing adultery in our hearts? And that our sin is a heart condition as much as an actual act? So, if there are married Christian men trying to justify the use of pornography…well stop because you cannot. Single guys…it’s still adultery. It’s adultery against the woman God has ordained for you to marry…or even against the man that was intended for that woman you are watching. I get that it’s hard to escape the grip of pornography; I am just saying that we can’t try to justify it, because it can’t be justified by any Christian man.
Also, I have seen on this thread some blaming of women for the fact that we are into that stuff. ..that would be Bookaball mostly in case you wondered. Huh? Really? Come on guys, man up here. Aren’t we ordained by God to lead the way and set the example? Kind of reminds me of old Adam in the Garden, when right off the bat he blamed the woman that God had given him. Just saying.
Married men and fathers. If we want our wives and daughters and sons to be the people they should be, then it’s on us to show the way. I have used this particular passage before here…and it applies so much.
Ephesians 5:25-27
“Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.”
That’s really fairly simple it seems. And it’s not conditional; in other words our execution of that direction is not tied to the level at which our wives do their part. Using Jesus as an example, aren’t we glad He didn’t tie His love for us to our doing our part? We’d sure be in a pickle then, wouldn’t we? Well, since our relationship with our wives was designed by God to show Jesus’ relationship with His Bride, the Church…then we are responsible to behave accordingly. Of course, everyone, women included are accountable to God for their actions….but we can’t blame them for our behavior unless we have 100 percent done as God told us to do. That means we have to treat our wives that way, model it for our daughters, and teach it to our sons.
IB, thanks for this chance to vent!
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Typical, “man up” white knighting. Easy to open your lips, isn’t it old man? If you actually grew up in my generation, you’d know that things aren’t as “fairly simple”
DA GBFM TRANSLTED INTO THE KINZNGZ ENGLSIZH ZLZOZOOZOZ:
http://hawaiianlibertarian.blogspot.com/2011/10/those-who-are-responsible.html
*By making the following section of his comment a list, I think the meaning is very easy to discern, so I only offer minor grammatical editing here:
1. deconstruct the great books on university campuses
2. tell men they need to man up
3. dumb down the entire schools system
4. tell men they need to man up
5. ass-rape men in divorce court
6. tell men they need to man up
7. send men to die on foreign shores in foreign neo-con wars
8. tell men they need to man up
9. drug boys with ritalin/adderoll for being boys
10. tell men they need to man up
11. encourage women to give their a-holes and ‘gina-holes early and often to douchebags
12. tell men they need to man up
13. destroy the classical, heroic character in their neo-con movies, replacing them with ass-cocking gay cowboys
14. tell men they need to man up
15. print money from thin air and inflate and deflate bubbles to seize a man’s home and property
16. tell men they need to man up
17. encourage women to become fat, whiny bitches
18. tell men they need to man up
19. publish, promote, fund, and finance ass-cockers like tucker max who film secretive taping of ass-cocking sessions without the girl’s consent (tucker max rhymes with goldman sachs), repeating tucker’s lies that he is six feet tall in the neo-con mag, the weekly standard.
20. tell men they need to man up
21. transform the church from an institution where a man could once go to meet a virginal, exalted wife, into a front for the divorce industry, where single mothers with three children from three ass-cockers go to rope in a beta male to pay for the ass-cocker’s spawn
22. tell men they need to man up
23. castigate, attack, and impugn men for acting like men
24. tell men they need to man up
25. transform the noble, exalted university into a nursery, ruled by neo-con women exalting ass-cockers, asscocking, and good grammar, exiling and deconstructing the great books and men, and rewarding the servile future nannies of the nanny state with fiat dollars delivered fresh from ben beranke’s helicopter
26. tell men they need to man up
27. remove all men from the publishing industry, so that priscialla painton of simon and schuster sodom and scheister can publish tucker max rhymes iwth godlman sax’s stories on how he asscoked a girl (somone’s future wife who will asscock her future huspband in divorce coutrt as revenge for having been assocked by a neocon) and taped it secretly without her consent. Remove all men from the publishing industry and replace deep, profound, real great books for men, with twilight vampire asscocking female rape fanasty “romance” novels.
28. tell men they need to man up
29. conceive of a hundred government programs to criminalize men and force them to hand over their assets to women
30. tell men they need to man up
31. financially incentivize womem to file for divorce, promising them that their former husdband will have to pay for all their future assocking sessions, and that they get the kids/house/car/assets
32. tell men they need to ma up
33. fill the law schools with fat, embittered, burned-out, nasty (in looks and spirit) post-asscoked lawyeresses, and replace Moses’ and Zeus’s law with Bernake’s Banker laws which exlats theft via the inflation tax
34. tell men they need to man up.
lzozoozozol
what aalalz am i mizssing here:???
35. Tell men they need to man up?
Adderall is a helluva drug.
lzlzozoozkzomzgz
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Wow….Guess I’m done. ..your cheese has slipped off your cracker.
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Oh come on bookooball, drop the rhetoric and try acting like human for once. Wally and I both have rather happy marriages, so the common denominator here does not seem to be red and blue pills, but rather the ability to perceive oneself with just an ounce of humility in relation to the other gender.
As to white knights, I have the ultimate White Knight and need no other. That is where your strength is to be found too, your power, your hope, not in false prophets, cults, red pills, and distorted bits of scripture.
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If life was black and white, it would be a lot simpler, wouldn’t it?
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Oh…and Bookaball? Things are that simple….Just do The Word
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“Manning up” does not mean bending over and taking it.
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“Manning up” does not mean bending over and taking it.”
In Christ sometimes it does. Sometimes that is exactly what is asked of you, to let go, to forgive, 70 times 70 if necessary.
You quoted Luke 22:36, but keep reading and a bit farther and you find Christ actually sweating blood as He struggles. Read a bit farther and we encounter the lopping off a man’s ear, but Christ says “no more” and heals that man’s ear. A bit farther and we arrive at Peter denying Christ three times, for many reasons, one being he is struggling to survive in the world, to fight on his own terms. That struggle between knowing when to stand up and when to surrender is one that has plagued Christians for a long time.
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It only plagues Christians because the neocon church has painted a passive always “turn the other cheek “form of Christianity to subdue the masses from revolt. Knowing when to fight is a feeling that comes from the heart. If a man is filled with the holy spirit, he can even kill in the name of God without so much as batting an eye. Just as I had no problem killing Muslims in Iraq and will kill more if they decide to bring the war to America. You can’t always win with kindness, which is why God made man in his image: wrath, vengeance, and retribution included.
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God has never instructed men to be at war with women nor for women to be at war with men.
“Knowing when to fight is a feeling that comes from the heart.”
Except in Peter’s case, I suspect his heart and his emotions deceived him. He is busy denying Christ after all, not walking filled with the Holy Spirit. In the feminist heart, I suspect emotions deceive them, too. In the manosphere you often encounter this same thing, broken men so bitter and walled off they no longer have any idea what is in their hearts.
“You can’t always win with kindness….”
The only women you can win without kindness are going to be so broken and damaged, you wouldn’t want one.
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“The only women you can win without kindness are going to be so broken and damaged, you wouldn’t want one.”
Guess that means there is going to be a lot of lonely people out there.
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God never instructed anyone to be at war with anyone else. He merely instructed those that follow him to stand up for themselves.
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Stick around bookooball, I’ve probably got more than 500 posts up addressing both relationships between men and women and standing up for yourself. You don’t have to agree with any of it, but I have a feeling you will find me more sympathetic than you think.
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bookooball, you may not be able to turn the other cheek in all situations, but it’s what you’re supposed to aspire to. None save Jesus are free of sin, therefore, if you see a picture of a nude, beautiful woman, you may experience negative lust, for which you ask forgiveness.
Let me pause here to say, to IB and Wally, that bookooball may be angry, and responding poorly to that anger, but there is reason for his anger, and that it is possible to meet him, honestly, with empathy. Fearful for their own safety, the Disciples denied Jesus–it is all too human for bookooball to shy away from state-licensed association with women, given the way that western family courts are set up. He isn’t employing the most pleasant language, but try to imagine the despair of so many young people today, who live in areas where they are surrounded by millions of women who will never accept fairness, justice, or family, and who will be constantly backed up by the police and welfare agencies when they do so. You two have found happiness, but dozens of millions of people in other generations will not, and it’s not for lack of trying. Some Pharisees are impossible to convince, yes?
Moving on, bookooball–it is impossible not to sin in some way while you’re here. Nonetheless, this impossibility should not be an excuse for sin. If you judge and kill a person, you can’t justify it in a worldly way–only Jesus’ death on the cross can do that. Maybe you lash out and commit the sin, and maybe, considering who you were at the time, it was unavoidable, but instead of saying it wasn’t a sin, you confess it in your heart or in a booth, and know that you have wronged. It is our imperfection, and our fear, that causes us to be unable to turn the other cheek.
This applies no matter how practical it would be to not turn the other cheek. When Jesus was nailed onto the cross, He could have flooded the world in cleansing fire; He could have broken free and slain his captors instantly; He could have looked into the future and seen all the sins you would commit, and burned them out of time, along with you, before you had a chance to commit them. He didn’t, though; He remained innocent and pure, therefore the imbalance of His death was able to suffice to save you from your sins.
Because of this act, we may be saved. Yet we should not then justify and explain away our sins simply because Christ might wash them away–they were still sins. So if you have not turned the other cheek in some situation, it was wrong, no matter how practical, in a worldly sense, it might have seemed at the time.
Perhaps, then, you will defend yourself from western women, and the vile panoply of governmental coercion which they can easily employ to torture you or extract a lifetime of labor from you without giving anything back. That’s certainly the practical thing to do, in a worldly sense. If Christ’s example means anything, though, it’s that worldly concerns, worldly justices, are illusory, and that the only true justice comes from the Father.
If you truly believe in Him, you’re not afraid. You’re not afraid of a lifetime of alimony, a venereal disease, or a broken heart, because He can heal all wounds, and He smiles upon you when you try to endure the thousandth part of the suffering which He has endured. The sins of others–the sins of modern women–are often staggering, but they can never justify your own sins.
If you’re like Vox Day, you don’t really believe. Vox sees Christianity as a tool which he can selectively exploit, in order to make anger and aggressiveness seem acceptable. He sins, then points to other sinners, and says, “But I had to sin because they sinned!”
Return to the very first book of the modern “Bible,” and reconsider the story of Adam and Eve. Eve sinned first, coerced Adam into sinning, and God still punished Adam. Eve was punished too, but Adam shared that punishment. That helps illustrate how there is no extra credit for being merely an accomplice to sin.
I know it’s hard. I know you’ll fail, time and again, as we all have. But if you can admit that you’re wrong to fail, and genuinely try to do better every day, and ask to be forgiven for not having the strength to turn the other cheek when someone has hurt you, you can eventually learn to be free of righteous vengeance. That stuff is incredibly dangerous, and it doesn’t belong in the hands of anyone who is not capable of using it properly–and if you’re a Christian, you believe that there is only one entity who should be exercising such power.
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Higharka, You make a valid point and perhaps I should have showed more empathy. Well said. On that Bookaball, you of course have some reasons to be concerned. I really should know that myself. I haven’t always been blessed by God with a good marital relationship and a great woman. I spent 25 years on the other path and it didn’t end well. I suffered from some anger towards the system myself.
Sigh…kinda hurts when your own toes get stepped on..so Bookooball, I do actually get it.
I still stand by my thoughts that the only way to fix it is one relationship at a time…and the way two people conduct themselves in it. I am also living proof of that side of things. So, I get it, but I also believe God has a solution for your situation, and don’t give up on doing it His way. I suggest not battling the women who are unwilling, but letting God help you find the one who will, along with you, follow Him.
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higarka,
Obviously we all fall short, that isn’t news to anyone here. Not to be rude, but you can copy & paste “just have faith in Jesus” rhetoric as a solution to everything, but sometimes we actually need to take action and sometimes we may not like the choices we have to make. Don’t be such a simpleton. Tell the millions of men who have had their so called christian wives strip their children and paychecks from them in divorce courts to “just have faith” and see what happens. Think you’ll bring them closer to god, or piss them off? Modern Christianity is a plague upon humanity. It seeks a magic bullet answer to all the world’s problems… just have faith. I don’t think the real Jesus would want you to deny a little scientific knowledge that might broaden your horizons if it may better help you deal with worldly people on a day to day basis.
You see there is this thing called biology…
http://www.anonymousconservative.com
(this is how you beat liberals, not preaching)
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Men who think porn is a good thing haven’t crashed and burned after years of porn watching yet. They’re deluded. Wait until their bodies catch up to their corrupt minds, and it will hurt.
Don’t hesitate to call porn obscenity. It’s a drug, an addictive drug for male eyes, and it’s destroying our entire society. In my opinion, it’s not violent video games that cause school shootings. It’s porn. It’s that lack of empathy and that selfish detachment from putting any value on human life, like people are just disposable things.
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…and then there’s the other perspective: the one where God’s creation, God’s image, is a foul, embarrassing thing. A thing that you place under lock and key, like a usurious banker squatting on a mountain of gold, always afraid to share. Where the body is evil, and where love is not love, an expression of universal acceptance and desire for closeness, but rather a private possession, something that we can restrict and covet and judge and own, like so many trading cards or BMWs.
It is sin that causes embarrassment. Adam and Eve began naked and unashamed in the garden, and when they were embarrassed at their fleshly god-images, God knew at once that something was sick, perverse, and wrong. Once they had learned to fear and hide certain parts of themselves, He knew that the snake had gotten to them, and that they were no longer fit for Paradise.
Aspire as you wish to attain.
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What I think really makes porn obscene is that it devalues sexual intimacy (and in turn encourages sexual promiscuity). If it’s acceptable behavior to expose both your fully naked body and your most intimate moments to millions of strangers, then why ever get married and commit to one person?
… and then society collapses in a sea of sex, like Sodom.
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My family always say that I am wasting my time here at web, except I
know I am getting familiarity everyday by reading thes nice
content.
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Reblogged this on How to Stop Pornography Addiction and commented:
Thank you for your article. You did not go on a crusade. You just shared your thoughts. They are greatly appreciated.
Dale
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Thank you for the reblog.
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I might decide to write a blog about porn and women but, for now, I’m just going to respond to this blog with my own personal opinion. I won’t say that women are always better than porn, but I will say that we shouldn’t put too much emphasis on either of them. Biologically, I’m designed to procreate, but from what I’ve noticed, we’ve just begun moving from “I need porn to make it through the day” to “I need a woman to feel complete.” When you get rid of porn in your life, you move to your next best opportunity; women. While desiring a woman is all fine and dandy, we put too much emphasis on the opposite sex (or same sex depending) that we forget we don’t need them. I don’t need a woman to complete my existence. Being in a relationship would give us a chance to experience a lot of things you’ve described, but so can friendships. I’d be willing to die for certain friends, and being long-term friends takes commitment. Of course, you can’t touch a friend’s boobs, and do doggy-style with them (usually), but we can get most things from our own friends. There are very few things that a woman can provide by herself, that a friend, or someone we care about, can’t. Of course, if your perception on women is that they are essential to our lives and we can’t be complete without them then, of course, women are going to be mean everything. The same goes for a man; you don’t need them. These days, you don’t even need to have sex with a man in order to become pregnant. While I don’t necessarily believe that porn can be better than women, I will say that women (and men) aren’t all that great, either.
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Perhaps religion has its place in discussing pornography. Cultures with widely differing values from those of the major religions show quite different attitudes toward sex practices, privacy, sexual propriety etc.
In some cultures, what we consider porn is often public art or advertising. Sex might be routinely offerred a guest as normal hospitality. Porn likely doesn’t amount to much in such situations, seems to us. So Porn has a sexually repressive religion as a factor, at least in our culture.
It shares status with drugs and prostitution: forced by laws to exist in the shadows. Porn is an aid to fantasy, I think, with the added factor of visibility to a wider audience. But it is definable as evil only where sexuality is tightly controlled or deplored in the culture.
We are proceeding toward “letting it all hang out” and I suppose porn will lose a lot of its profits as sexual mores relax again from tight Judeo-Christian views. And what there is of it, will likely become more fantasti as ordinary sex becomes too mundane to sell much. I don’t know, but expect fewer prostitutes in a hookup world.
Nothing new; the old Jews fell to carousing while Moses was up the mountain receiving the Ten Commandments. Our species appears to cycle between repression and license … Each has its price!
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Alpha Game is quite an ambitious title – surely porn is about satisfying yourself. I.e. being satisfied with porn as opposed to a an exchange – because the exchanges don’t merit up. See that buxom blond over there? – would you do to your average woman what your fantasies store up in you about her?
Ultimately it’s a game of Solitaire.
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A game of solitaire indeed. Well put.
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Here I am, late as usual. Fantastic post, Insanity. I’ve been doing much reading on porn and it’s effects on the brain. Especially for those men who hit adolescence after high-speed internet became a household standard, it has had a stunning impact on their behavior, relationships and work. If you haven’t had a chance to see this TED talk, it’s worth the time. Thanks for posting. Hope all is well!
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Thank you for the visit and the link! Much appreciated.
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