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atheism, conversion, de-conversion, faith, god, hope, love, salvation
Within some atheist circles there is this process called de-conversion where one unwinds oneself, usually from Christianity. I had to go learn about this from reading atheists because to tell you the truth, I don’t even really personally absorb the Christian idea of conversion. I had to learn about that too, from others. A conversion is a bit like how and when you came to Christ or became born again or where He found you. Often people’s conversion literally saved their life, like leading them out from drugs or alcohol. I love these stories.
I never really had a “conversion.” I was very young when I first encountered the presence of God, around 3. I wasn’t in a church or being indoctrinated or suffering abuse. In fact, I was playing in the sunlight wearing a pink dress with orange ric rack near a compost pile full of rotting vegetables and horse manure. I can remember every detail with a clarity that astounds me, the sights, the smells, what I was wearing, the warmth of the sun, the tiny scab on the back of my leg. What can I say, I was 3, it was God, these things tend to make a powerful impression on you. How do I know it was God? I just knew, I recognized Him. He was very familiar. The message was simple, to never forget I belonged to Him. I knew immediately that there was simply more to this world then meets the eye.
My life did not suddenly get better, in fact it got worse. My parents divorced, my mother took off with me, and I wound up on the run hiding out in communes and cults. It wasn’t all bad, there were some good times. Beyond the isolation, the strong atheism, Marxism, and new age themes, and the regret that I couldn’t go to school, I didn’t suffer all that much abuse. Most of my trauma came from witnessing others abuse their own selves and each other. It was the 60’s there was freelove, rampant drug use, suicide, overdoses, people birthing children in tents and teepees, people insisting on living outside of the medical establishment. People not ruled by common sense or virtues or values, but rather in complete rebellion against them.
God never left me from that first time when I was three. The relationship only strengthened and grew. He talked to me in that still quiet voice, He revealed Himself to me, He taught me things, He took me on the most incredible treasure hunts. I saw His face in pools of water sometimes, His features formed in the clouds. Why Christ? Because He was clearly Christ, like in paintings I later saw but so much more than anything you could ever paint. The image of Christ is not something you could ever hope to capture. To me He appeared a bit more like a knight than the peaceful, angelic portrayals people try to paint. Very gentle yes, but very, very powerful.
I didn’t get out of that world for years. I was nearly 13 before I first stepped foot in a church, with the deliberate intention of being baptized. I didn’t really have to be taught scripture or Christian “tenets,” I just instinctively knew them already. Some of my wording was wrong, some of my understanding was rustic, but I knew it was Truth because God had already been teaching it to me for years. Long story short, I joined their youth group, their bible study, their baptismal classes and not long after I was baptized. That’s the formal anniversary of my “conversion,” but actually it really started when I was 3.
I spent two years within that church and sure enough, not long after being baptized my life once again took a turn for the worse. I’ve come to believe that that is how it really works, the stronger you grow in faith, the harder it’s actually going to get. Like CS Lewis said “I didn’t go to religion to make me happy. I always knew a bottle of Port would do that. If you want a religion to make you feel really comfortable, I certainly don’t recommend Christianity.”
I really don’t have any juicy stories about “sex, drugs, rock and roll, and salvation.” I have a myriad of sins I could write volumes about, sins of circumstance, sins of defiance, sins of stupidity, about trying to wander off the path Christ put before me. I’ve been lost many, many times, but He always knows right where He is.
Honestly, when you come from radical atheism and free love and cults, how do you express your teen age defiance? You sneak off to a church and lie about it. You read the bible under the covers. You whisper scripture behind their back.
I did try to dabble in “sex, drugs and rock and roll,” but even in that I was somewhat protected. For the life of me, I could not develop a proper alcohol addiction. While many teen agers were acting as if they had just found their new best friend, my body just didn’t cooperate. I haven’t exactly led a sheltered life, however, I’ve walked in some dark places, it’s just that I’ve never walked in any of them alone.
*When I say “His Presence” or “God” or “Christ” I can’t really identify the difference between angels or the Holy Spirit or Christ Himself. I can’t really tell what is God or simply of God. It’s just an intense and powerful recognition, “His presence.”
lovelifeandgod said:
I’ve had a similar experience; I’ve never experienced severe trauma or delved into any “major” sins. A little boy in third grade told me if I asked Jesus into my heart I could go to heaven, so I did, and I’ve felt His hand of protection over me ever since.
Like you, I veered off the path He set before me, because after that little conversion I went on to thinking about what most eight-year-old girls think about – toys, playing house, dresses, etc. Later on I became an agnostic, with a few religious habits, like my inexplicable fixation with a small painting of Jesus my mother got when she got married that she gave to me when I was having nightmares (I’ll call it an iconita from now on – that’s what it’s called in Romanian and it saves time) – not because she was religious, but because she had “a sense that it would help me feel better.” Whenever I thought of bad, angry things, I would put the iconita in another room because I felt guilty. But whenever I was sad on a particular night, I would put it under my pillow.
Even when I grew a foul mouth and began telling dirty jokes with my friends (in middle school, of all ages), I viewed the actual act of sex as an incredibly sacred thing. In my early years of high school, after having witnessed the negative impact sex had on others, I proclaimed celibacy, for no religious reason at the time. I steered clear of marijuana, cigarettes, and alcohol. In many ways, God protected me, and I never drifted far enough that He couldn’t bring me back (otherwise I wouldn’t be telling you this right now! 🙂 ).
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insanitybytes22 said:
Thank you Ada!
I’m laughing a bit here, but there are a couple of grown men in the world who could really learn a thing or two from your little boy in 3rd grade. That little guy just planted a seed and Christ watered it and now we have you out in the world walking with Christ and reflecting and multiplying all that He teaches us about truth and beauty and love. That is a profound thing in the world. “May you be like a well watered garden, a spring whose waters never fail.”
Men, even little boys, have incredible power in the world and some of them don’t even see it. There are a couple I just want to grab and say, “Look Moron! It’s so simple a 3 rd grader can do it.” 😉
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lovelifeandgod said:
Yes, the memory of that boy witnessing to me, and then me shutting my eyes and thinking, “I ask Jesus Christ into my heart,” is one of the most vivid memories I have of my childhood. It is so clear to me, like it happened yesterday. That boy, Joshua, moved to a different school not too long after that, and I don’t really know what happened with him, but I’m praying that he’s still out there preaching the message of love and redemption, as innocently and child-like as when he spoke to me years ago.
That is definitely true. While there are men who work to do for others what Joshua did for me, there are still many who would be wise to start following that example. 🙂
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seekingdivineperspective said:
I love your testimony! Children can be the best witnesses, because their thinking has not been complicated and polluted y the world yet. Blessings!
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Mike said:
“I just instinctively knew them already.”
Yep.
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stacilys said:
What a powerful post. THank you sooooo much for sharing this; for putting it out into the blogosphere for everybody and anybody to read. You may not think that this is a powerful conversion, but ‘HOLY CRAP!’ for me it is. My testimony is like the ones you were talking about – the drugs, sex, party lifestyle. There are tons of those. But to read testimonies like yours, I’m blown away. I love how God touched you at the precious age of 3. Oh dear God, do that with my kids please. I have a very dear friend that had a a very personal encounter with God as well. He was at some retreat (wasn’t a Christian) and he was about 11 or 12 at the time. They showed the movie, “The Cross and the Switchblade” and he thought it was so cool because of all the gang fighting and all. Afterwards there was an appeal to accept Christ. Out of nowhere God just spoke to him, “Rob, I’m real, you can accept me or not.” As simple as that. His automatic response was that he lifted his hand straight up in the air and said, “Of course I accept”. I love that story. It’s these super personal, simple, intimate, transformative stories that I absolutely love and feel close to. So yes, once again, thank you so much for sharing this. I loved it.
🙂
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insanitybytes22 said:
Thank you for your kind words and your support. I love the story of your friend who heard “Rob, I’m real, you can accept me or not.” It really is that simple and yet hugely transformative.
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Eric said:
Contrary to what atheists believe, I think it is fairly obvious that children are born with some knowledge of God and have disbelief or false beliefs educated into them by adults. A lot of people who’ve led bad lives have conversions because they turn back to God by instinct.
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insanitybytes22 said:
That’s a really good point. I think I agree. It’s that child like wonder and lack of resistance that makes faith easier. As adults we can get kind of walled off and cynical and less able to just let go and see what’s right in front of us.
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Arkenaten said:
Sorry, Eric. They are not born with such knowledge. This is simply wishful thinking. They are quite capable of assigning some form of agency, yes. But not ”gods”, and certainly not the Christian god, Yahweh. There is no evidence to state this at all.
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Eric said:
Arkenaten:
I think they are born with an instinctual knowledge that God exists, but they don’t have a fully formed idea of God. I think this is even true of lower forms of animals—there are stories in the Bible, like Daniel in the lion’s den where the lions simply ‘knew’ God and didn’t follow their natural inclinations in His presence.
Piaget discovered that children are not capable of abstract reasoning until around puberty.
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Arkenaten said:
Which god are you talking about, Eric? There are literally thousands and the word god is a simple noun, not a pronoun.
So before we take this further, tell me this god’s name, if you would.
Oh, and the bible,as you rightfully state , contains stories.
Piaget may have been correct in his assessment regarding abstract thought. But I don’t think he considered agency.
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Eric said:
Arkenaten:
They only understand God’s existence. To draw an analogy, children know they need food when they’re hungry. They don’t need to understand the science of nutrition, they simply know they need to eat, and eat what they need.
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Arkenaten said:
I have tried to explain that children assign agency.
Did you not understand this term?
When money appears underneath a pillow or presents magically appear under the tree for instance. It is the Tooth Fairy and Santa, right? Of course! Kids don’t suddenly squeal excitedly, ”Oooh, look, mummy, gifts from a god!”
Anyway, it is easy to research. Just Google it. There are scientific studies to demonstrate this if you are really interested and not merely hanging your hat on the religious peg for convenience reasons.
Oh,and purely out of interest, which god are you referring to,Eric, please?
You have yet to identify this deity and as you treat the term as a pronoun a name would for it would certainly help.
Thanks.
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insanitybytes22 said:
I Believe Eric is correct. Children are not nearly as dumb as we think they are. They do not assign agency to imaginary characters. Most kids are busy enjoying the idea of Santa Claus, the imaginary world where the tooth fairy lives. Lots of kids believe in Batman, too. By the time they’re about four years old they are well on their way to being able to distinguish reality from fantasy and they develop an awareness that their “real” characters are not real at all. Not so with those children who have an awareness of God. God is not a character in our lives, He is a presence all around us.
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Arkenaten said:
Again, as I said to Eric, which god are you referring to?
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insanitybytes22 said:
There’s only one God. Naturally in order to try and dismiss the fact that many children seem to have an innate awareness of God, you will need to shrink God down into a more easily defined character context so you can try to attack the idea. Kids however do not perceive God within the narrow confines of culture or religion, they simply are aware of something much greater then themselves, of His presence. Religious parameters come much later.
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Arkenaten said:
This is agency. Not deism. And most certainly not theism. Do you understand the term?
Yes, or no?
Would you really like me to reference the findings?
I am prepared to do so if you want a really interesting read to show how skew your interpretation is?
But if you just want to play silly- buggers and semantic musical chairs, then so be it.
For the record, which god in your opinion, would a Hindu child imagine and what do you think is the name of that god?
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Eric said:
IB:
Speaking of cults, HE’s at it again:
http://alphagameplan.blogspot.com/2014/10/alpha-is-good-for-you.html
Yes, according to the ‘Voice of God’ has declared that having 20 different women is good for body and spirit. LOL
I noticed none of the Gamers so far have mentioned whether or not it’s good for the 20 or so women involved, but there you go…
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insanitybytes22 said:
Well, sheesh! I’m sure Christ is most impressed.
There is something optimistic hidden in here however, until I encountered VD, I had no idea what an abusive Christian even looked like. I’ve met some imperfect ones, some selfish ones, some lost ones, but never any that advocate outright hatred and total disrespect for women (and men.) Even better, I have encountered some broken and dysfunctional men, some real doozies, but none so foolishly prideful and downright stupid as that one. It’s a bit encouraging actually, it means they are somewhat rare and not representative of Christians in general or men for that matter.
The problem of course is that every woman those gamers encounter will take that poor representation of Christ, that distorted perception of men, out into the world with her and reflect and multiply it, and use it as justification for both passing stronger legislation against men and for veering away from Christian values.
I sure wouldn’t want to have to answer for having caused that.
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Colorstorm said:
Eric
IB
I first heard of ‘V-d_y’ through no desire of my own. Fortunately, I have a little spiritual mettle to be able to see through the sham, and the ‘man behind the curtain,’ pretending to be wizardlike.
It’s like a win/lose scenerio. You want people to be aware of the spiritual gymnastics done in the name of Christ, but there will be some who will be caught in the net so to speak, and will not have the sense to ‘just say no.’
Mr V, and those like him, wear opposition as a badge of honor, and loooooove the alleged persecution. Hard to imagine they actually think they are doing God a favor.
How is this related to this post? Because all men are converted to something. If we are not fools for Christ’s sake, then whose fool are we?
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insanitybytes22 said:
“If we are not fools for Christ’s sake, then whose fool are we?”
LOL, that’s perfect.
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luckyotter said:
That’s a beautiful story. I never had anything as dramatic as God showing himself to me when I was young but I’ve just always known there is a God. The idea of Jesus, and the trinity, I have had more trouble accepting for reasons I have discussed on my blog, and I don’t have a natural affinity for the Bible, but I’m working on these things and it’s getting easier.
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insanitybytes22 said:
You really have some beautiful stories of your own. I love reading your blog. The trinity really is a difficult thing to wrap our brain around, because it’s kind of foreign to us. Our brains don’t do so well with paradoxes and there are a whole lot of paradoxes within faith. I love them, they’re like riddles just waiting to be solved, but maddening sometimes. Sometimes I don’t think we’re ever really supposed to solve them all because then some of the magic and mystery of it all would be lost. I like to say, God likes to keep us guessing.
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thetruthisstrangerthanfiction said:
“Some of my wording was wrong, some of my understanding was rustic, but I knew it was Truth because God had already been teaching it to me for years.”
Most of us who did grow up in the church bubble never come close to realizing just how precious, and powerful, and pleasing to God that kind of faith really is…
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insanitybytes22 said:
Thanks! Your insights are always so valuable. Sometimes I read your words and think hmm, I never really thought about it like that, but it’s true. There are pieces of the puzzle that are really important, that we have to fill in for each other, and the only proper way to do that is to rely on other people for their perspective.
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silenceofmind said:
What a wonderful and miraculous life story!
It makes me feel as though I am the Charlie Brown of Christians.
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xPraetorius said:
This is so beautifully and sweetly written it brings tears. So well done again, IB. When were you going to write that book?
Best,
— x
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Denine Taylor said:
God is so awesome, so personal, love your “conversion story.”
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Arkenaten said:
A thought came to mind when I reread this paragraph: Why would anyone embrace ”radical atheism” ( in the manner you describe) without radical motivation?
It is a somewhat like the Law of Motion in as much that a body continues in its state of rest, or of uniform motion in a straight line, unless it is compelled to change that state by forces impressed upon it
This behaviour is reactionary typified by some form of defiant action/s.
As I suspect was yours to a certain degree; based on what I have now gleaned from your Testimony.
And as you were brought up in a Western (Christian) based culture you opted for the best alternative that you knew. – Christianity.
( and the ”flavour” of Christianity that appealed most.)
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insanitybytes22 said:
If what you suggest is true, then that is a bit of Divine comedy right there. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, which would indicate that some of the best evangelists actually leading people to Christ happen to be radical atheists.
It’s an amusing idea and puts a new spin on “everybody serves a purpose in God’s kingdom.”
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Arkenaten said:
I think you jest on purpose and understand fully the point I am making.
A radical evangelist would drive me to drink if I were that sort of bloke.
But my observation stands.
If your were raised in a home that was vehemently anti – religious it would have a similar detrimental on the child’s mental well being as living under the tyrannical rule of a religious fundamentalist who claimed you were a disgusting sinner and going to hell.
The average atheist does not really care what the average religious person believes. ( proving they are not trying to spread it around to all and sundry)
And this can be seen in action in several Northern European countries that are very clearly moving away from religion. Similar story in a country such as Australia.
People just can’t be bothered with it.
Stats currently show that approx 1 in 50 of the clergy do not believe in god. Organisations such as the clergy project are also evidence of religion in the wane in the more developed countries.
You find that the most vehement opposition is in countries such as the States where certain religious organisations wish to have religion in schools and other areas of state infrastructure.
How much of this is true, I know not as I have never experienced the USA first hand.
However, if the media is a small window to view life in the US then is in definitely one the most religious countries in the world – and the nonsense one sees over such issues as abortion and public health is a reflection of this.
To reiterate, most atheists are not like your folks.
I certainly would never consider running off to live in a commune and wallow in ”free love”.
I like my creature comforts, thank you.
And if your folks had been atheists like me I suspect you would have turned out with a very ambivalent attitude toward religion in general.
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insanitybytes22 said:
“To reiterate, most atheists are not like your folks.”
Oh, but they are. One of the mystifying things about atheists is they are often unable to see themselves as they really are. They speak of being rational, reasonable, ambivalent, but their behavior, their words, their acts betray them.
“If your were raised in a home that was vehemently anti – religious..”
Actually I grew up in an anti-Christian home, not an anti-religious one. Religion was all around me it was just Paganism, Gaia adoration, goddess worship, transcendental meditation. Everyone was seeking God in some form or another and getting incredibly lost along the way.
Personally I believe that desire to seek God is hard wired into us all. You’re going to eventually wind up worshipping and serving something, it could even be atheism, science, technology, or government. The trick there is to choose wisely because who you serve you will eventually answer to and it will own you.
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Arkenaten said:
Which god are you referring to? We can’t have an adult conversation while you continue to use a pronoun for a noun.
Makes it easier if you identify this god by name.
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Louis from VA said:
If you don’t mind my intrusion, what do you mean when you ask for God’s name? I do not doubt you know of whom IB is speaking. (He just happens to be called by a number of different titles.)
So, what is the answer you are looking for, out of curiosity? Am I misinterpreting the question?
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Arkenaten said:
Well, there are hundreds of thousands of gods and a great many creator deities that can be found in almost all religions. So if one is going to refer to the creator deity of one’s own religion then why not simply use it’s/his/her name?
Surely you recognise the fact that Christianity does not have the monopoly on creator gods?
If I were referring to a musician for example it would be meaningless if did not mention the musician’s name, wouldn’t you agree?
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Louis from VA said:
True. And yes, I surely do recognize that, as you so italicize it.
There are a number of names Christians use for God. Lord, Christ, Savior, King of Kings, etc. They all reflect different aspects of His nature.
The mention of a Creative Force in the universe across multiple religions seems to point not to multiple deities, but, in the same way, facets of the same One. To use your analogy of the musician, it’s like if J.S. Bach’s friends called him Johann, his acquaintances Mr. Bach, and his mother when she was angry with him Sebastian. Using a different name for him doesn’t change the fact that he’s J.S. Bach.
(By the way, what a wonderful image for God that is: a musician, a cosmic composer, singing the universe into being. 🙂 )
Peace.
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Arkenaten said:
Actually the true name for the god you genuflect to is Yahweh: that meglomaniacal genocidal egocentric despotic butcher you will find lurking all over the pages of the Torah.
There is no ‘God’. The word god is a noun.
Yahweh is its name. Period. Don’t you lot learn anything at bible study?
It is the same Abrahamic god worshiped by Jews and Muslims.
All the other names are meaningless drivel
Oh, and he originally had a consort. You know that too of course, yes?
Compartmentalization is such a wonderful thing.
.
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Louis from VA said:
Ah, but Arkenaten, there you are wrong. God is a verb.
God lives. God moves in and through the universe, through our lives, beyond our comprehension. He is movement. He is truth.
God creates. He is the very act of creating, constantly upholding and breathing new life into the world.
God loves. God is love. He is not just the noun “love”, but the verb “love”. He is a love song. He knows exactly who we are better than anyone else, and thus He is able to love is far more than we could possibly ever imagine. And he loves you, Ark. So. Incredibly. Much.
Peace.
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Arkenaten said:
What an indoctrinated fool your truly are.
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silenceofmind said:
Ark,
That God must be Creator is a simple matter of reason.
On the other hand, the atheist doctrine that everything just happened all by itself, is what is truly foolish.
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Arkenaten said:
Really?And how do you go from human ( Jesus of Nazareth) to creator of the universe?
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Arkenaten said:
As usual, you have it exactly backwards.
Man didn’t become Creator, Creator became man.
And you still haven’t explained why believing that everything just happened all by itself isn’t foolish.
Really? And what happened after he came back to life?
Didn’t your man-god ascend to Heaven once more to continue ruling the cosmos? lol…
Listen , Dickhead, I don’t have to explain anything, that’s the job of scientists. But, YOU on the other hand, would do your cause a world of good if you had the integrity/ability to explain how your man-god above all other gods is the creator/personal deity you claim.
Sadly, no Christian has ever been able to to this, rather focusing their attention on trying to rubbish science, ironically, using scientific means to do this.
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silenceofmind said:
Ark,
As an atheist you must be able to explain how everything just happened all by itself, because that huge plank of foolishness is the core of atheism.
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Arkenaten said:
Nope. That, Dickhead, is your prerogative. I make no claims.
I have no belief in gods simply because the evidence presented so far – for any gods can be dismissed with impunity.
You have verifiable evidence? Present it.
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silenceofmind said:
Ark,
The atheist claim that God does not exist is as positive a claim as God does exist.
Since the universe itself is evidence that God exists and modern science has proven that the universe had a beginning, the atheist must be able to explain how everything just happened all by itself.
Because everything happening all by itself is all that’s left if everything does not have a Creator.
Nevertheless, I have more proof that God exists and this proof comes from modern science.
We know from modern discoveries in molecular biology that proteins comprise a vast family of specialized bio-tools.
Since tool-making is proof of intelligence, bio-tools prove the existence of God.
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Arkenaten said:
Well, Dickhead, I am not ALL atheists, and I say that my belief is based solely on the evidence presented by idiotic theists ( and every other god believer) like you. In other words, no verifiable evidence.
Now, if you can demonstrate how your narrative construct, Jesus of Nazareth is the creator of the cosmos then I’ll nominate you for a Nobel Prize.
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silenceofmind said:
Ark,
I’m a theist and I just presented you with proof of God’s existence courtesy of modern science.
Are you going to deny modern science the same as you deny reason, logic and history?
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Arkenaten said:
No, you did not present me with evidence that Jesus of Nazareth is the creator of the universe – and this is what I asked.
Now, be a good little fellow, stop being an absolute Dickhead and trot along and whine at someone else until you are grown up enough to have developed integrity and a modicum of comprehension skills.
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silenceofmind said:
Ark,
But again, you prove that you have it exactly backwards.
It isn’t up to me or anyone to prove that Jesus is Lord.
That, you must do for yourself. That, only you can do for yourself.
Whereas atheism is the steadfast faith in foolishness, belief in Jesus Christ comes from personal insight breathed into the heart and mind of the disciple by God, Himself.
Nevertheless, for the atheist, the first step away from foolishness and toward reason and faith, is the understanding that God proves his existence by the very universe he created.
And nowadays, in modern times, with the discoveries made about the universe by modern science, belief in atheism is absolutely inexcusable.
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Arkenaten said:
In other words you cannot even demonstrate the most fundamental, basic claim of your religion, that the narrative construct, Jesus of Nazareth is the creator of the universe.
You are a hypocrite.
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silenceofmind said:
Ark,
It isn’t up to me to construct anything for you regarding faith in Jesus Christ, since God did all of that, Himself.
Only God can reveal God.
Surely, the Christian cannot be a hypocrite for not possessing the revealing power of God.
Additionally, and FYI, the Bible is the story of God’s revelation of Himself, to man.
If one rejects the very story that God took centuries to tell, how is it just for you to blame Christians for your own shortcoming, your own willful, hateful, disbelief?
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Arkenaten said:
So, once again, you cannot even demonstrate that the narrative construct, Jesus of Nazareth is the creator of the universe.
The bible is simply nonsense.
Not only are you a blatant hypocrite but also with all you theological two step you are a Dickhead.
Well done. The more diatribe you effuse the more idiotic you become.
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Wally Fry said:
Amen Silence..amen.
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Louis from VA said:
“And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.”
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Arkenaten said:
And the best you can do is offer an inane comment to back up the nonsense you espouse. Sigh ….
If you have no evidence to back up your claims why bother to make a complete arse of yourself by implying that you do?
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Louis from VA said:
Aw, you don’t like that quote? You should; it’s from an atheist. What irony! (Although, something tells me you and Nietzsche might not get along super well…)
As for evidence, well, best to start small, and I already did that in our other comment thread. 😉
*sighs back at you*
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Arkenaten said:
Ah, so because you quote an atheist I must therefore fall off my chair in rapture?
Hmmmm. You are easily amused, aren’ t you?
So, Louis, where were we?
You were going to demonstrate how the narrative construct you genuflect to is the creator of the universe, were you?
Well, be a good lad and off you go , then.
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Louis from VA said:
Again… referring you to our other thread. So you don’t like that quote… I suppose atheists are like a box of chocolates then: you never know what you’re gonna get. XD Yep, easily amused, that’s me. Trust me, I like a good Catholic joke too. What’s life if you can’t laugh at yourself? You don’t seem like the type to laugh much, if you don’t mind my saying, but I do hope you are at least somewhat enjoying this discussion. (And sorry this is all one paragraph. The return key on my keyboard suddenly stopped working.) Peace.
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Arkenaten said:
I don’t like a lot of Shakespeare,but I do enjoy Dickens, so sue me. Are you able to stop behaving like a Dickhead for two minutes and answer the question, or is your behaviour part and parcel of your ‘faith’?
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Louis from VA said:
I’m not going to write out the same line of reasoning here, Ark. If it strikes your fancy, I’ll copy and paste it though, as a Christmas present.
On a completely different note:
I too enjoy Dickens! He’s an awesome writer, and A Tale of Two Cities is one of my all time favorite books.
You know, we do agree on some things. Popping over to your blog, I maybe even like the Ark I see there. “At all times, have fun. That’s an order,” to quote your About page. I think we could both probably do a better job of keeping in mind that the other is human, not a monster, not a polar opposite. Call me a hippie, but that’s my two cents.
Peace.
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Arkenaten said:
Oh, we are both human. But sadly you are a god believer.Yahweh, remember? So the line in the sand is drawn at some point.
Maybe you will grow out of it?
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Louis from VA said:
To me this sounds like you closing a door in your mind and labeling me.
Knowing who I am already, if I showed up at your blog and posted a comment on something unrelated to religion, say, a photo, would I receive the same welcome as anyone else?
Just an honest question…
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Arkenaten said:
Of course you would be welcome. But here we are ….on a religious thread, yes? And correct me if I am wrong, you addressed me first?
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Louis from VA said:
I did, evidently. Just tell me to shut up if I get annoying.
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Arkenaten said:
Have no fear …I shall.
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Louis from VA said:
XD
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silenceofmind said:
Ark,
As usual, you have it exactly backwards.
Man didn’t become Creator, Creator became man.
And you still haven’t explained why believing that everything just happened all by itself isn’t foolish.
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a gentle iconoclast said:
“When I say “His Presence” or “God” or “Christ” I can’t really identify the difference between angels or the Holy Spirit or Christ Himself. I can’t really tell what is God or simply of God. It’s just an intense and powerful recognition, “His presence.”
IB,
Do you mean this was your view before coming to Jesus or afterward, that is, is this your view now?
Maria
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insanitybytes22 said:
Thanks for your question. That’s pretty much been my view all my life. I say that disclaimer because sometimes people get very picky about exact terms and they’ll say things like, “no that was an angel not God” or “no that was the Holy Spirit.” Honestly, I can’t tell so “of God” simply means “of God.” It’s just a terminology thing.
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a gentle iconoclast said:
I think I understand. Do you mean that you can’t tell at certain times whose presence or influence you’re sensing, IB? But the way you put this can give the impression that you don’t distinguish between the Lord Jesus Christ and angels and the Holy Spirit.
M.
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annj49 said:
Thanks for sharing your story, “insanitybytes”. I really enjoyed the read! That “Presence” is indescribable but certain 🙂
My story is on my blog under testimony (a long read) and also in one of my poems, “Conviction” (a much shorter read).
Again, I think a life of atheism requires at least as much “faith” in “uncertainties” as does the life of a theist. It’s just where we choose to put our faith that makes the difference. I have known atheists who are just as “evangelistic” as believers, and sometimes even more aggressive than some.
Arkenaten: I don’t know you, but It’s both interesting and annoying to read your arguments and challenges 😉
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insanitybytes22 said:
Thanks for your comment. I love people’s testimonies so I’ll be sure to come read yours 😉
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Grace and Truth Ministries International said:
The name of the true and living God is Jesus Christ. The Lord Jesus Christ is Jehovah incarnate as a man.
“For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.” (Isaiah 9:6)
“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.” (1 Timothy 3:16)
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newenglandsun said:
I wish I had been able to see your testimony during my own conversion process. I had fallen into despair much throughout my own conversion process and even picked up cutting.
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insanitybytes22 said:
I’m so sorry, despair is a tough thing to go through. I wish I could of been there for you and let you know it’s going to be okay.
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newenglandsun said:
You’re here now. Though it hasn’t been as bad since my baptism and now my regular going to confession has also set up a defense as well.
I go to an Anglican Church and since only the bishop can confirm and our diocese has no bishop, I have not been confirmed yet.
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ephesians413 said:
It’s been a while since anyone has posted a comment here, but I just wanted to say that I was touched by your story. It’s so amazing to see the way God keeps his hand on us through those difficult times and gently leads us out of them. There were a few times in my life as well when I felt God’s presence especially strongly. Those moments are like shafts of light stamped into my consciousness. He is alive and very, very real and also, as you said, very powerful. Thank you for sharing your story.
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seekingdivineperspective said:
Wow, I am also coming to this late, but am so glad your testimony is still out there, and people like ephesians413 are still reading it. You have inspired me to get MY testimony written and on my blog. People know about bits and pieces of my life, but not how I came to Christ originally – in much the same way you did.
I, too, read my Bible under the covers at night with a flashlight! Not because my parents weren’t believers, just because my mother put me to bed too stinkin’ early! I’m so glad she did, though, because sometimes in those quiets moments of my young life, Jesus would speak to me through the gospels. For example, one night when I was suddenly struck with agonizing doubts about whether He was real, and how would I know? I started reading where I had left off the night before, and almost immediately read, “Ask, and you will receive; seek, and you will find; knock, and the door will be opened to you.” And, flooded with peace, I laid my little head down and went to sleep.
For another story of God’s speaking to me, you can read “Not a Trained Monkey” on my blog (August 24, 2018).
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DM said:
Loved reading your testimony! (I came to your blog via Paula’s/ Blue Sky’s and Green Pastures). and love your spunk! DM
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