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anti-feminism, apologetics, biology, blog wars, Christianity, cognitive dissonance, cults, Dalrock, games people play, men and women
Unless one enjoys vicious idolatrous cults that pervert both Christian values and masculine identity, one should not click on the link to Dalrock’s blog.
Dalrock, for those who don’t know, is a gamer, one of the offshoots of the men’s rights movement, a group that tends to promote male dominance in all things and the fine art of controlling women, gaming them so to speak. It’s not all bad, men need a place to vent, to find themselves, to hopefully work towards becoming better men. Besides, the internet is big place and I am all about the freedom, even the freedom to be wrong and to express your wrongness.
My problem is when bad things are promoted under the guise of Christianity and Christ Himself is perverted, misrepresented, used as justification for one’s own dysfunction. I’ve tried to rather gently speak to some of these men, but being the most manliest of alpha men, secure in their beliefs and integrity…they tend to just vomit threats and obscenities all over themselves. Dalrock, like many others has banned me and deletes my comments.
Take Christ’s name out of the picture and you are free to roam dating sites, harass, mock and ridicule women, threaten, intimidate and abuse them, dox them, hack them. Whatever, not my business. Someone else will have to stop you. Christ however, He is my business and what is done in His name matters to me. See, when I am not chatting with atheists, I am actually roaming the internet and speaking out against some rather appalling representations of Christ and Christian values.
No wonder there are atheists in the world, seriously. If I believed Christ was all about condemnation, hatred, ridicule, and mockery, I’d flee too.
No wonder there are feminists in the world. No woman in her right mind would submit to any of that nonsense. In fact, if she were wise she’d start supporting the second amendment and get a restraining order. Women are wonderfully and fearfully made, we aren’t stupid.
You make my job harder Dalrock, because you pour fuel on the fires of both feminism and atheism, and you present a rather perverse portrayal of Christian beliefs.
You guys hurt people and one of these days your little games of psychological and emotional abuse are going to send someone over the edge and into suicide. You know what buttons to push, what triggers to access, but what you do not know is the emotional health of your targets.
This is not the behavior of men Dalrock, but rather middle school mean girls. You have the power to do a whole lot of good in the world, but if you’re going to serve darkness, please don’t do it in Christ’s name.
See, there's this thing called biology... 
Great posts. There are indeed horrible people in the world posing as Christians.
They frustrate me much more than the worst atheists.
Thanks for bringing this person ton the attention of your readers, I pray he takes your words to heart.
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In many respects, Dalrock makes a lot of sense, but I do agree that he really isn’t the best Christian sometimes. (Of course, I generally suck as a Christian myself, although I am trying to do better.) And yes, horrible people claiming to be Christians are a large part of the reason I spent 40 years as an atheist. Luckily, God had my back even when I didn’t believe in Him, which is as much evidence of His infinite capacity to love as I’ll ever need.
Should be interesting to see if Dalrock’s got what it takes to debate you. I’d buy tickets to that one!
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Hey IB-
Would u mind if I reblog this?
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Of course you can 🙂
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The hypocrisy here is staggering. I just wrote a blog post all about why I have so much trouble with Christianity; this dude sure isn’t helping. I agree with you, that he’s free to have a sexist men’s blog, whatever, but using the name of Jesus Christ to justify his troglodyte viewpoint is beyond tasteless. Kudos for calling him out!
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Thank you, I appreciate it. A lot of people have a hard time with Christianity and a big part of that problem stems from the behavior of some of His followers.
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Interesting–what makes Dalrock a follower? A) Because he says he is, or B) Because he acts like he is (presuming, of course, that he acts like the way he says people should act)?
He cherry picks a few passages about sexual relations that he prefers, and weights them as he chooses to disregard the stuff he doesn’t prefer. But so many of us do that. Who’s to say that his reading of “suffer not a woman to…” isn’t valid, and that, by callously criticizing women, he’s not carrying out his proper responsibilities as a man? This one doesn’t “agree” with him, for what that’s worth, and this one also adjudges him a rude and wrong person, but he has no shortage of Bible verses to back up a lot of what he says.
The hardest part for the demons to edit was the Golden Rule. It was the perfect trap, because they’d look at something like that, and think, “Well, if anyone falls for that, it only means they’ll forgive me and give me stuff!” So the message could be inserted into this world without any fear that it would be perverted. Everything else could be added to or changed, but true charity is just too helpful to the enemy (or so it thinks) for them to, in their greed, countenance getting rid of it, no matter what else they might’ve added in.
Ergo Dalrock has textual support, but not real support.
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“Ergo Dalrock has textual support, but not real support.”
Actually, no, he doesn’t even have textual support. He has assorted scriptures taken out of context, elaborated on and bent to conform to whatever he is promoting at the moment. I’ve asked so many of them to show me one example of Christ bullying, mocking, shaming women. They can’t because Christ never did, not once. They pull out random quotes about wives and husbands and try to force them to apply in any context involving men and women.
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Higharka:
Game is somewhat cultish in its own right; what Dalrock basically does is wrap portions of Scripture around Game to make the two conform. And it’s Game that gets precedence over the Bible.
It’s an old cultish technique. Actually if you wanted to experiment with it, you could make up an ‘Islamic Game’ or a “Buddhist Game’ or whatever simply by extracting passages from the Coran or Dhammapada or any authoritative writing and press these passages into the service of Game’s doctrines. Cultists do the same to give their movements an aura of sanctity and ancient authority.
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Reblogged this on Colorstorm and commented:
This terse but tart piece by IB lays out clearly some lucid observations about the distinctions between good and bad Christianity. Not all that glitters is gold.
Pay attention as to WHY atheists may have cause to flee, and why feminists could possibly find fault with Christ Himself. I commend to all readers this work.
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“Dalrock”? That’s a name? Sounds like an extra from the Flintstones, or some crude college-radio-station D.J…
What could be sadder than a guy who obviously has been burned by the female gender and so has chosen to turn around and embrace his misogyny, and in the name of Jesus…?
Sorry dude, but if he were able to take one look into Jesus’s eyes as He spoke to the woman at the well, he’d have run home in shame.
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IB:
Thanks for this post, it’s refreshing to see these poltroons being called out for what they are.
“No wonder there are Feminists in the world. No woman in her right mind would submit to any of that nonsense”.
It’s always struck me how similar Game and Feminism really are. If you took Feminist tenets and reversed the gender roles, it wouldn’t sound radically different from what the Gamers teach. Just like no real man would want a femihag; no real woman would want a Gamer.
“You guys hurt people and one of these days your little games of psychological and emotional abuse are going to send someone over the edge and into suicide.”
Not to mention it could send some into homicide. Notice that the Game crowd never advertises that George Sodini, of the 2009 LA Fitness Center Massacre fame, was deeply immersed in studying Game/PUA.
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I did not even know this blog existed
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Dalrock reminds me of Dr. Who’s Daleks. Run Away! Run Away!
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So Dalrock, have you cleaned up your comments section? I can’t seem to locate “acid resentment guy” who’s just leading his wife on until he gets all he can out of her, at which point he plans to offload her old, ugly, and useless self?
That comment was followed by several more in which men declare all sin lies at the feet of women. I see you have almost taken a stand against that and agreed to the possibility that perhaps some men do sin after all. Kudos to you, that’s a step in the right direction at least.
I actually know quite a bit about game Dalrock, God’s game. Game is hardwired into us all and it’s actually a beautiful thing, the loveliest tango you can ever imagine. It was created by God for multiple spiritual purposes, none of which involve controlling and brainwashing women into compliance, but rather charming and enchanting us into a love relationship with men. It is so vitally important for women to see Christ reflected in men, that you are actually given tools to help entice us in. When men do not reflect Christ, but rather use those tools to exploit and demean women, it becomes a perversion of not only game’s design, but game’s Designer.
There’s nothing inherently wrong with game principles, only the promotion of game to a nearly idolatrous status, where “winning the game” starts to take precedent over scripture, over Christian values, over God Himself. Add in a few cheap parlor tricks and bullying tactics, and you’ve got yourself a full blown cult.
I take care of dying men, Dalrock. At the end of your lives you don’t sit back and count your conquests, you grieve over the intimacy you were always seeking but never found.
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“Game is hardwired into us all and it’s actually a beautiful thing, the loveliest tango you can ever imagine. It was created by God for multiple spiritual purposes, none of which involve controlling and brainwashing women into compliance, but rather charming and enchanting us into a love relationship with men.”
There is VERY little difference between “brainwashing” a woman and “charming” her for many men, personally,those two,statements are exactly the same to me. The only difference is the intent of the “brainwashing/charming” which can then be used to make a moral judgement about the behavior.
If Dalrock says “use charisma to game your wife” is he saying brainwash or charm her? Because frankly both descriptions fit in my opinion. ANY form of manipulation in that context is Game, and to me that means you support game based on the statement I quoted from you above.
Not being argumentative, but I feel like much of the angst you and others share about Game is nothing more than a matter of perception. If Game is used to keep a marriage happy and healthy, is it still “brainwashing”?
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“There is VERY little difference between “brainwashing” a woman and “charming” her for many men…..”
I know! That fact that so many of you perceive it that way, doesn’t say very much about men’s opinions of their own selves in the love equation. You perceive “charming women” as brainwashing, manipulating, controlling, and exploiting them. Basically learning how to violate women’s psyches so we can be tricked into loving you.
“If Game is used to keep a marriage happy and healthy, is it still “brainwashing”?
Intent and motivation is everything. The difference between “charming” somebody and “brainwashing” them is huge. One is done out of love, the other out of selfishness. Game has been going on for thousands of years between men and women, it’s no great secret. It’s not game itself that is offensive, but seeing it used as a weapon to retaliate against women because you suffer from the wounding of all womankind, certainly is.
And seeing Christ’s name brought into the game as if He lends credence and justification to the immorality of such tactics is just appalling.
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My friend Eric sent me over here to your blog. I have been lurking at Dalrock for years and can say with full confidence that you absolutely have the measure of the man. If he were an atheist, agnostic, or pagan like Ian Ironwood, nothing he does or says would be a problem. The fact that he does all these things in Jesus’s name, however, is revolting. Like an angel of light Dalrock uses truth to appeal to vulnerable people looking for answers and then manipulates them by injecting the poison.
Good job on having the courage and tenacity to expose him. I wish more Christian bloggers would follow suit.
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Thank you for stopping by and for your support. I really worry about all those “vulnerable people looking for answers.” People, men especially, are wounded, emotionally vulnerable, and the gamers know it and push those buttons. It’s not about helping anybody to heal, it’s about taking hostages and controlling them.
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A 57 year old woman is just about worthless to anyone but her children and her husband who remembers her as she was.
Here is a comment on Dalrock’s latest thread by a married man who calls himself Chuck Kammer.
This is typical of the type of comments that appear in regular rotation on Dalrock’s blog – an older woman has no innate value whatsoever, she is “worthless,” a dried-up old hag. Yet many of the readers who approve this viewpoint claim to worship a God who has infinite love for ALL his creatures (including elderly women) because He made them in His image and likeness (Imago Dei).
This is the kind of cognitive dissonance that characterizes the minds of Dalrock and his “followers,” who I’m afraid are no more “Christian” than the Moonies.
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Something I wish those men would realize, things like that are a projection. What you say about someone else you are really saying about yourself. The truth is hidden beneath those words, so what Mr. Right there is saying is that HE fears growing older, fears having no worth in the world, fears no longer having his identity reflected back to him by his wife.
In such an ironic twist, it’s actually a form of goddess worship. The gamers are a cult of goddess worshippers, so deluded, they can’t even see it. If you are following Christ, if Christ is the one who fills you, you have no need to try and control your “goddess” because she is not the source of your entire identity.
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IB:
“The Gamers are a cult of goddess-worshippers, so deluded, they can’t even see it.”
I’ve been saying this for a long time. For all their talk about the aloof ‘manly Alpha leader’ they are complete slaves to the female sex (or more accurately, to female sexuality). And they CAN’T see it: they call all men who don’t follow their cult ‘beta chumps’ when in reality they’re the ones who are being manipulated.
The natural order of things is simple: women lead men by attracting them; the man pursues and wins the woman; the woman then submits; and the man then leads. The Gamers have scrambled the whole paradigm: they submit to feminism and then try to pose as leaders when they have no power at all.
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Some people read into the Bible what they want, and then they ignore what does not fit what they want to believe. Hence, we have Matthew 23. And, of course, the scribes and Pharisees had Jesus crucified. And still they thought themselves good Jews.
Men win what Dalrock idiotically calls the Game by loving the woman God gives us as we love our self. What could be simpler than what is stated in Genesis 2:23-25? Nonetheless, we make it complicated and call it a game.
Think about silly way we interpret the temptation of Eve in Genesis 3. Fools blame the fall on Eve, but Adam and Eve were made one flesh before the fall. Adam and Eve succumbed to Satan’s temptation together, not separately. When Eve ate the fruit, Adam was with her.
Both Adam and Eve forgot to love God with all their heart and soul — to be obedient to Him. If we men want our marriages to work, then we must obey His command to love our wives as He commanded. Do we manipulate people we love? No.
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Thank you for your comment, it’s much appreciated. It’s also really nice to have sane Christians in the world who keep me from losing my mind 🙂
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The Bible is a collection of eternal wisdom presented in the best way possible: stories and parables. Most people are not going to read a sterile analysis of marriage, and human relationships are irrational to begin with.
What was right today, was right since the beginning of time. We might have a different opinion, and we will be wrong if we don’t acknowledge the truth that never changes to personal whim.
Marry early, procreate. Men work (which is nothing easy to begin with), women take care of the home and children (which they will always do better than men).
Because we no longer believe in the concept of duty, and women have had their responsibilities at home robbed of them, women want to work, working at so-and-so corporation and making six-figure incomes is now what’s reallly important in life.
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“Intent and motivation is everything. The difference between “charming” somebody and “brainwashing” them is huge. One is done out of love, the other out of selfishness.”
The modern form of love is rather selfish itself though. Add to it that “love” like all emotions are fleeting and tend to change, and it seems to me that doing anything out of “love” is pointless. Commitment and loyalty however are great as a building block, provided both parties actually know what they mean.
Is it “love” if a man games his wife to keep his family together? Or is it selfishness based on the fear of losing his family? If his wife “feels” like she’s fallen out of love with him, is gaming her to “rekindle the flame” brainwashing or charming? There is an awful lot of gray area there even for those that follow their faith, let alone the non-religious among us. (Which is a growing group of folks…)
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“Add to it that “love” like all emotions are fleeting and tend to change, and it seems to me that doing anything out of “love” is pointless.”
I’m sorry that you feel as if doing anything out of love is pointless. Fortunately for Christians, Christ didn’t feel that way, because He loved us so much he paid the price for our sins and died on the cross for us. Love is kind of a central tenet of Christianity.
Here is the definition of brainwashing: “a method for systematically changing attitudes or altering beliefs, originated in totalitarian countries, especially through the use of torture, drugs, or psychological-stress techniques.”
Here is the definition of charming: “extremely pleasing or delightful, entrancing, alluring, and charismatic.”
There really are no gray areas.
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Christ’s love is not at all the same as “love” in modern times. Christ’s love came with loyalty and a sense of obligation to others. In modern marriage that feeling often doesn’t even extend to a spouse. Christ’s love was a true form, meaning it wasn’t just a feeling. We didn’t need to charm Him for his love, he gave it freely and of his own will DESPITE the fact that the people he loved wanted him to die.
As long as we define love as only a way to feel and not a responsibility we will never be capable of truly emulating His love. Of course we are flawed beings, but it seems that even among the supposedly religious we are NOT holding ourselves and each other to His standards.
Put another way, if saying “I love you” simply means “I currently feel very fond of you” it is pointless. Love should mean “your well being and happiness is as Important if not more important to me than my own” it has little value. When “I love you” means “I will do whatever it takes to make this work even when I don’t feel like it” and “my loyalty is yours” then what is the point? I think “I love you” is taken far too lightly in the modern age. Do you think Christ’s love for us was based on feelings? I imagine he felt a great many things, but it had to be almost unbearable to continue loving us while we crucified Him.
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Love is sometimes presented as shallow and selfish in modern times. Does that mean that Christians should start advocating for cynicism and emotionless love?? No, if Christians don’t show people what Christ was all about, than people may never know. No where are Christians called to wallow in wounding and fear, condemning everyone.
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Hello.
Where do I begin?
Dalrock wasn’t a favorite of mine, when I was immersed into the Manosphere. He was the Manospherian with the Christian angle, yes, but his writing is cryptic because he mixes formal style with Texas slang and he really has no need to post anything most of the time. At the time I was no Christian; even then, with my scant knowledge of Christianity, I suspected that he was not acting in accordance with Christian principles. As I left the Manosphere, I went looking for criticism against the Manosphere. I valued the savvy-insider’s perspective, but I valued more the criticism that came from Christians.
Dalrock did not engage in the lifestyle that he promotes. He was married to his wife at age 20. He does not practice what he preaches, perhaps because he doesn’t need to.
It is the modern world, and our belief in the inherent goodness of improving technology and standards of life and prolonging it, that has made us desperate and wanting. Many of the Redpiller PUAs want to improve themselves, and look up to the ancient greats who only 20 years ago would be dismissed. Our ancestors lived better lives than us, and were far far wiser than we are.
Today we convince ourselves that we are more civilized and educated than 500 years ago, but would we live in constant anxiety and want, and look for the answer in the wrong places to our never-ending crises? Where were the PUAs of the 1300s, and were is 17th century game? They didn’t need PUAs or game!
I’ve forgotten the Manosphere a long time, and this I came across by coincidence. Since then, I have become Christian. My faith is unshakeable, and for Christ I am ready to suffer.
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Thank you for your comment and peace be with you. I think you have great words of wisdom and I wish you well. I’ll pray that your faith remains unshakeable and that Christ wraps you in His joy and victory.
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Thank you for calling him out. I’ve never even heard of this blog. But that others have, and that he ties his message to Jesus is awful. You are right, that blogs and blogger such as his make it harder to truly reveal Christ to the world. Identifying those who twist God’s truth is critical. Great post, friend.
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A collection of thoughts that could support a collection of posts and for that matter, books!
Women, seems to me, submit to too much, too often; visit Pakistan or Saudi Arabia. I doubt most do it gladly. And its notable too that those societies continue to justify slavery, if less publicly than of yore. And yet thse women support their societies against different ones, in the main. We are a funny species …
Gaming appears to be gaining (if that is the word) an aspect of religious beliefs, to be becoming a bit more than virtual and spilling out into at least a part of reality. “Second Life” semi-transubstantiating, so to speak. One may expect more from this; I doubt we have seen the full development yet.
Christianity must fit in science and has been able to do that before; now it is becoming more difficult … watch Francis and his bishops dancing over divorce and homosexuality amidst the emerging persecution of believers and their ongoing departure from belief that fuels the persecution.
Finally, the old: “There are no atheists in foxholes” from WWII remains a fact; the Faith will resolve its issues and folk facing a cold, hard reality that is developing will be seeking what faith offers again, finding empty promises in the Government God. But that’s going to take a while, seems to me … and offering truth and sense across the Internet will be one means for accelerating it.
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Thanks for your comment. That’s hopeful, perhaps there’s a light at the end of this tunnel and perhaps it isn’t just another train coming down the tracks 😉
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Purim 2015! Don’t kill the messenger. Men, having been traduced in print and on television, have finally recovered their senses. If all they are are boy toys then game teaches you how to be the best toy around. Now that you women are about to be hanged on your own gallows, you cry about injustice. You bred the gamers with your maxims of ridicule. It was you who crassly spurned their romantic overtures. The stone faced rebuff to their greetings, as they passed you, was proof positive that you hated men for being men. What did you think was going to be the result of 40 years of feminism?That men were going to quietly suffer the torment of unrequited love?
Don’t be mad girls. We learned from you; now you can learn from us. Love is only for one night; hate is forever. It was all a game you played. At our expense. We played the game, we understand the rules and we definitely keep score.
We got three things from American women: divorce, abortion and fags. It’s a very costly stain on the social fabric. It’s gonna take a lot of blood to wash that away.
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” Love is only for one night; hate is forever.”
Well if this isn’t one of the most idiotic representations of Christianity ever, than I don’t know what is.
“We learned from you; now you can learn from us.”
Yeah, in the gaming community I see a whole lot of men who seem to have embraced the feminine side of themselves, but only the ugly aspects. No offense, but men make really lousy women. In your quest for a celebration of masculinity, all you’ve done if followed the worst example of womanhood, oddly transforming all that is good and golden about masculinity into a caricature of men who allow themselves to not only be lead by women, but consumed by them.
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This is the what these guys think. It’s not idiotic. Guys like Roosh V really hate you. Typical girl: lash out with ad hominen attack. Your response shows you are no christian either. It’s OK. Jesus loves me so you don’t have too.
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That’s not an ad hominem attack at all, it’s the truth. Jesus may well love you, but he never condoned hatred and cruelty towards anyone, nor was He very fond of having such things preached in His name.
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BTW, I am no proponent of game. I merely offer up an explanation of why it exists. If men men are characterized as trivial cyphers then, for most of them, they absorb the propaganda and respond.
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Of course you are a proponent of game, there’s no need to try and backtrack. You’ve already revealed yourself in your comment above.
“If men men are characterized as trivial cyphers then, for most of them, they absorb the propaganda and respond.”
Actually, real men don’t allow themselves to characterized at all, because they already know who they are.
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I’m a blog crazed person and i love to read cool blog like yours.~`;.,
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