Tags
condemnation, Garden of Eden, love, pride, redemption, relationship, shame
Something that’s always fascinated me are the words God speaks to Adam and Eve
after the fall of man, while they’re hiding in the bushes wrapped in fig leaves.
He says, “I did not give you a spirit of shame.” Well if shame didn’t come from God,
it came from the serpent. If it came from the serpent, it doesn’t belong to us, it
wasn’t intended for us. It is not ours to carry around.
In Christ there is no condemnation.
Shame is a deceptive thing, it always comes from pride. The acquisition of pride is
pretty much the original sin that befell mankind. Before pride entered the picture,
Adam and Eve didn’t even know they were naked. The serpent entices Eve into basically
challenging God’s rules and pride enters the picture, quickly followed by shame.
Pride is not feeling good about yourself, confident, “proud” of your achievements. Pride
is attached to feelings of false moral superiority, it is the scar tissue we layer over
feelings of shame. Someone who is full of pride is not strong, powerful, self assured,
they are weak, because the more pride, the more shame. Pride is like dragging along a bag
of rocks. It gets heavy.
In Christ there is no condemnation.
Shame is a really toxic thing. I’m not talking about regret, guilt, or your
conscience. In the dictionary, shame is actually defined as “feelings of unworthiness.”
The way we tend to cope with feelings of unworthiness is to try and puff ourselves up with
pride. Pride layered over shame is a bit like walling off an infection. Now you’ve got secrets
and other sins will slip in, like fear of having your secrets revealed or fear of being judged.
Fear, that’s another one God is pretty clear about. One cannot really walk in fear and faith
at the same time. The bible is full of instructions to go forth boldly, without fear, without
shame.
When people wound you, hurt you, offend you, it is completely natural to try to use pride as a
band aid. People can be horrible to each other, shaming, judgmental, ostracizing.
In Christ there is no condemnation. There is no shaming, no ostracizing, no wounding. Christ is
the opposite of judgment and condemnation, in fact, He is the only path away from it. Without Him,
we are already walking in a state of condemnation and judgment. The challenge however, is that to
receive Christ one must surrender their pride.
Many people reject God based on the behavior of some humans. It’s not God who has offended them,
it’s people. It’s not Christ who condemns or shames us. In fact, He suffered and died to free us,
but that gift of love, has to be something you are willing to receive. There’s simply no way to
receive it without surrendering some pride. Surrendering pride can be a bit like pulling off a
band-aid slowly. It’s not a lot of fun.
In Christ there is no condemnation.
Christians are imperfect, flawed human beings, who do their best to reflect Christ and to show
the world who He is. Some have failed miserably and actually driven people away from Christ. I
get that very well, but God is not created in the image of some Christians. We are the ones created
in His image.
There is nothing new under the sun, nothing that God hasn’t already seen and heard before. He’s been
watching us for a long time. We cannot shock Him, cannot do anything horrible enough to cut us off from
His love, but we can build a fortress around ourselves and wall ourselves off with pride. Even in that,
He will keep knocking at the gate.
One of the greatest deceptions the world has ever known is often propagated by Christians and non
believers alike, and it is this idea that shame and condemnation are somehow Christian values. That
is a complete reversal of the Truth.
Christ is the opposite of condemnation.
There are people in the world, believers and non believers alike, who fear that without the power of shame
to control people, they won’t be able to control people. They are absolutely right. THEY won’t be able to, but God will. Without fail, once pride is relinquished He will step in and light the path. He always does, without fail. Some people really need others to encourage them to follow that path, but pointing out right and wrong, is not the same thing as condemnation and judgment.
Anthony Evans – No Condemnation
See, there's this thing called biology... 
Hmm. I see truth in both this post and the counterpoint of another who believes that shame is good and necessary. Your thoughts?
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(I know I’m not IB, so hopefully not intruding, but I would simply say that there is a distinction between the two uses of the same word going on. In her post, IB said, “Shame is a really toxic thing. I’m not talking about regret, guilt, or your
conscience. In the dictionary, shame is actually defined as “feelings of unworthiness.” But regret/guilt/conscience is precisely what Barnhardt was talking about in that article, so really two different conversations imo…)
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Interesting article. I tend to disagree, but I think that’s more about the definition of the terms being used. That article is complaining about the lack of shame in our society, I’m complaining about the excessive pride. They are really the same thing, flip sides of the same coin. What that article calls “shame,” a less toxic version than I refer to, I would tend to label empathy. Psychopaths don’t lack shame, they lack empathy. Unrepentant sinners don’t really lack shame, they lack empathy, empathy perhaps with themselves and even with God. How do you come to lack empathy? By hardening your heart with pride, usually in defiance of misappropriated shame. More shame doesn’t soften hard hearts, less pride does.
Keep in mind however, that mine is a completely female perspective. Pride can manifest itself a bit differently in men and women.
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Actually, I see this as a HUMAN perspective. At the core of our souls, men and women aren’t so different. And I think you’ve hit upon a great truth here. A lack of empathy with ourselves and with God…that does explain a lot.
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Ahhh, finally, a proud Christian woman. Good to see.
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“Something that’s always fascinated me are the words God speaks to Adam and Eve after the fall of man….” Something that’s always fascinated me is when people talk about Adam and Eve as if they were real human beings, instead of symbolic figures.
“In Christ there is no condemnation. There is no shaming, no ostracizing, no wounding.” Yes, as long as you believe in him; as long as you embrace him as your personal savior. Otherwise, all bets are off (i.e., go to hell, go directly to hell, do not collect $200). Isn’t that what the Bible teaches us?
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“Something that’s always fascinated me is when people talk about Adam and Eve as if they were real human beings, instead of symbolic figures.”
I’m not sure it really matters for the purposes of a discussion on shame? Even if you believe the story is only a myth or a legend, it still teaches us something valuable.
“Yes, as long as you believe in him; as long as you embrace him as your personal savior.”
You’re right, Doobster. You have to actually embrace Christ in order to be embraced by Him. It’s a consent thing. He doesn’t take hostages.
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Yes, it does, but as I said, it fascinates me when people talk about Adam and Eve as if they were real people. I was merely stating how that fascinates me.
“You have to actually embrace Christ in order to be embraced by Him. It’s a consent thing. He doesn’t take hostages.” And you see no contradiction between saying that and saying, “In Christ there is no condemnation. There is no shaming, no ostracizing, no wounding”? So in Christ there is no condemnation, no shaming, no ostracizing, no wounding…unless and except…. Interesting. I guess the word “no” has a different meaning to Christ than it has to most people.
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In Christ there is no shame, no condemnation, no wounding, no ostracizing. Outside of Him however, you’re pretty much on your own.
You simply cannot enlist His advocacy, His intervention, His redemption, without turning towards Him. It’s not a contradiction at all, you’re either with Christ or you’re going it alone.
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But if you choose to go it alone, you are condemned by Christ to spend an eternity in hell. So how is that not condemnation? You are redefining words to suit your purpose, IB.
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You have not been condemned by Christ! You have been condemned by yourself.
It’s a bit like having your house on fire, Doobster. If you don’t avail yourself of the fire department, does that mean the fire dept has condemned you? Of course not, you’ve condemned yourself by failing to avail yourself of their services.
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That’s actually quite funny. I don’t believe in an afterlife, much less hell, so I’m not condemning myself to anything or anywhere. But most Christians are quite eager to condemn me to eternal damnation because of Christ.
And since I do believe in the fire department, I would call the fire department if my house were on fire. But if I didn’t call them because I believed that Christ would save my house, then I should be condemned by the fire department and by anyone with a brain for failing to avail myself of their services.
It’s like some Christian sects that don’t believe in doctors or surgery or vaccinations. So they turn to prayer. And then they are shocked when the sick or injured person kicks the bucket.
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Believing in Christ can reap benefits and rewards right here in this life, too. You and I have already talked about this, but the benefits and blessing that we now enjoy in the US, Christians and atheists alike, come from Christian values.
It never ceases to amaze me that I have the freedom to even have these discussion with atheists, because you just won’t find the freedom to be a non-believer in a country that isn’t dominated by Christian beliefs.
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“because you just won’t find the freedom to be a non-believer in a country that isn’t dominated by Christian beliefs.” Really? Hmm. I wonder, then, why countries like Vietnam, Japan, South Korea, most of the Nordic countries, Russia, and Israel, just to name a few, have such a high percentage of their populations who claim to be atheists, agnostics, and non-believers in God. Yet, they seem to feel free to discuss their non-belief in those countries. I like to think of the values that you call “Christian values” as “human values.”
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you know what fascinates ME Doob? The fact that you feel so compelled to continuously keep spending the time and energy pointing out other people’s belief in “imaginary” things…
I understand the logic of a proselytizing Christian, or Muslim, or Buddhist, or anyone who believes in any sort of spiritual reality or at least “something bigger than themselves” etc. But the motives of the proselytizing atheist? I still can’t figure that one out.
Are you so concerned about all these “deluded” souls out there who are falsely believing in an afterlife and savior to greet them after death, who will be sorely disappointed by, nothingness? The eternal consequences of no eternal consequences? Indeed, no eternity at all? If your own understanding and your own reason are at the center of your understanding of the universe, then why worry about the conclusions of anyone else? I mean… If we are all just randomly evolving biological machines, then aren’t these deluded religious concepts simply the result of the bio/chemical programming going on inside ourselves? Aren’t we just doing and saying and thinking what we’ve randomly evolved to do/say/think?
Why mock everyone who believes in God for being so “deluded” when in reality the philosophical outworking of pure atheism would be outright nihilism? I’ve yet to meet a true nihilist….
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You know, “truth,” I read every post IB publishes. And even though we have almost nothing in common other than we are both bloggers and are both members of the human race, and even though we share virtually no beliefs, I enjoy reading her posts and I appreciate her writing. And yes, I respond to some of the more, shall we say, “interesting” points she makes in her posts.
But you may have noticed that I’m not following your blog and I haven’t read anything that you post. If I had any interest in what you have to say, I would read your blog. Since I don’t, that should tell you something.
I’m not proselytizing. I’m not attempting to convert anyone from one religion, belief, or opinion to another. I’m expressing my own personal opinions. And I emphasize these are opinions that I’m expressing. Not facts.
I responded to IB’s post because I do find it fascinating when people discuss Adam and Eve as if the first two human beings to inhabit this planet were a man named Adam and a woman named Eve. But if you wish to believe that to be the case, go for it man. I don’t care what you believe.
And if you want to believe in an afterlife and a savior to greet you, believe that. I can’t know for sure that that’s not the case. I just don’t believe that’s the case. And if I’m wrong, well, according to you I’m going to hell for eternity anyway, so what difference does it make?
I am not mocking anyone who believes in God any more than those who believe in God mock those who don’t. And if you think atheism is the same as or close to nihilism, then you don’t understand either ism.
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Sorry I lost you at the beginning of this one with the quote “I did not give you a spirit of shame.” I figure you must have a very different translation to me (I still use my beloved old King James though I often also read other versions for variety) but I have never come accross this phrase. I even checked to see if there were something that may have been adapted this way but couldn’t find anything. Please can you tell me what reference it is and which translation so I can understand better where you are coming from?
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Sorry, I didn’t reference a piece of scripture. Regardless of which biblical translation you use, it begins in genesis 2:25,
“Adam and his wife were both naked, and they felt no shame.” And then progresses through to genesis 3.
Shame is again mentioned in the bible in several places. These are only a few. 2 Timothy 1:8, Mark 8:38, 1 Peter 4:16, Romans 10:11
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OK Thanks. Now I understand.
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“In Christ there is no condemnation. There is no shaming, no ostracizing, no wounding.” I like this piece very much. Great post. We did not understand shame, until the moment our eyes were revealed, after the interaction with the serpent. So one should wonder if Adam rejected the fruit and only Eve was ejected from the Garden, how would this have played out for humanity.
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Interesting post, IB. People tend to see humility as synonymous with shame, which is quite false. If you have no pride, logic would indicate that you would have no shame. Shame comes from believing that you are somehow lesser than others; pride from believing you are better than others (as Satan thought he was better than God). Pride and shame then become a vicious circle…that only humility can break.
“Humility is not thinking less of yourself, it is thinking of yourself less.”
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Well said, Ada, thank you.
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